Atheists on the march in America

Atheists on the march in America

There are 70629 comments on the TurkishPress.com story from Aug 26, 2009, titled Atheists on the march in America. In it, TurkishPress.com reports that:

When South Florida atheists held their first meeting, they were just five friends, having a beer at a bar.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at TurkishPress.com.

“That's just MY opinion...”

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#10049 Nov 22, 2009
mdbuilder wrote:
Nope, you're a lying hypocrite. You spend too much time and energy trying to convince me of what a horrible place America is. If peace of mind comes with not having to fight for it or not having to sacrifice for it, you're in the right place. You sit back and expect it all to come to you, demanding smooth roads and clear skies. You know that's impossible and always have.
You left because you're lazy and greedy.
We're better off without you.
The funny thing is, when the money runs out (in American banks, no doubt), guess what, you'll come back, exploit 'Evil America', and leave again. JUST LIKE YOUR ILLEGAL FRIENDS.
How'd I know you didn't cut the cord? The principled, courageous martyr for a 'Just America', leaving the back door open, just in case. lol
The "objective" one lays waste to another strawman.

“ad maiora nati sumus ”

Since: Sep 09

Justice Scalia is an Oxymoron

#10050 Nov 22, 2009
wolverine wrote:
<quoted text>
Do You Idolize This Dictator ???
So when was Cesar Chavez, the Mexican American leader and founder of United Farm Workers a "Dictator"?
John

Saint Louis, MO

#10051 Nov 22, 2009
Your forum has offered nothing but disbelief since page one when i even spelled it out for them. You have yet to answer what position of belief you are willing to defend regarding creation. Having something to debate was my prerequisite you so predictably duck. There is plenty of evidence of a purposeful creation, but, i need not share anything with purveyors of nothing. Whenya got something of your own Joe we'll try some back and forth. Until then you are the ignorant disbeliever I said you were.
To even try and make the argument of nothing creating everything is a scientific impossibility and is in itself a joke.
I made the first challenge to any antitheist to make up an observable and repeatable standard within the confines of a limiting natural parameter. You collectively came up with zip, zilch, nada.
Folks, you just aren't that intelligent. Get over it.
John

Saint Louis, MO

#10052 Nov 22, 2009
If a nothinker wants to debate the origin of the universe they are expected to have a position to defend. However, thousands of self reported intellects continue to cite disbelief in a God as some sort of evidence of anything. Personally, I think it's a weakness neccesitated by being utterly clueless with the limiting natural paramaters. Science of the gaps is every bit as troublesome as God of the gaps.
I see you continue to dance like a puppet regurgitating a disbelief in God. I get it. That's it? Seriously? Put the collective brainpower (such as it is) of nothinkers together and get some substantive message out there. The best PR in the world can't mask this charade of a forum.
Now, go back to doing exactly what I told you to. If you offered one iota of original thought to defend perhaps you wouldn't be so frustrated chasing your tail. My redundancy is beginning to bore me almost as much as your nothing; but, hey that's on you.
Stump a nothinker! Ask him why he limits his thought and cannot provide a position he's willing to defend.
Watch these frauds attack a God they don't believe in and offer nothing more.
Just like the energizer bunny...still going

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#10053 Nov 22, 2009
John wrote:
Your forum has offered nothing but disbelief since page one when i even spelled it out for them. You have yet to answer what position of belief you are willing to defend regarding creation. Having something to debate was my prerequisite you so predictably duck. There is plenty of evidence of a purposeful creation, but, i need not share anything with purveyors of nothing. Whenya got something of your own Joe we'll try some back and forth. Until then you are the ignorant disbeliever I said you were.
To even try and make the argument of nothing creating everything is a scientific impossibility and is in itself a joke.
I made the first challenge to any antitheist to make up an observable and repeatable standard within the confines of a limiting natural parameter. You collectively came up with zip, zilch, nada.
Folks, you just aren't that intelligent. Get over it.
Well, here's the problem John... You've typed many words but managed to say nothing with everything you've typed.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#10054 Nov 22, 2009
Freedom up in Smoke wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sorry but the further left you go will find an even BIGGER likelihood of authoritarinism.The history of the twentieth century will attest to that fact. You will probably give Hitler as an example of the right going array. No, he was a Socialist. It is in the name of the party.Stalin,Mao,Palpot,Castro ,Hitler all examples of great supression and opression from the left. The misery that these people caused their people "on their behalf" is beyond words.
LOL. Why don't you let us on the left tell you what we advocate, not our enemies. Tyrrany is not a liberal principle, no matter what other conservatives told you. Nor is genocide. There are very few ideas from any of the men whose names you listed that constitute liberal thought.

What appeals to me about liberalism and what makes me is a liberal is embodied in such states as Sweden and pre-modern America.

The despots that you named have more in common with Bush and Cheney than any liberal. Authoritarianism is a Christian and a conservative principle. We would NEVER advocate giving ANYBODY even one percent as much unreigned power as those despot claimed for themselves. That's Bush and Cheney, again.

The right has a great PR echo chamber that teaches garbage like that which you repeated. From Limbaugh to Beck to Kristol and beyond, they repeat the same several dozen selected talking points until they are accepted as fact by their listening audience, and this is one of them.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#10055 Nov 22, 2009
mdbuilder wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope, you're a lying hypocrite. You spend too much time and energy trying to convince me of what a horrible place America is. If peace of mind comes with not having to fight for it or not having to sacrifice for it, you're in the right place. You sit back and expect it all to come to you, demanding smooth roads and clear skies. You know that's impossible and always have.
You left because you're lazy and greedy.
We're better off without you.
The funny thing is, when the money runs out (in American banks, no doubt), guess what, you'll come back, exploit 'Evil America', and leave again. JUST LIKE YOUR ILLEGAL FRIENDS.
How'd I know you didn't cut the cord? The principled, courageous martyr for a 'Just America', leaving the back door open, just in case. lol
You're wrong, and you're nothing but hate.

You are obviously jingoistic in your support for America, and simply disagreeing with you makes me a monster in your eyes. I can live with that.

It's also obviously crucially important for you to maintain the facade of American righteousness. As I implied, that is merely another religion, albeit a secular one, and by that reckoning, I'm a blasphemer to you. Your anger and rage attests to that.

But as a result of these stereotypical responses, you cannot be talked to. You are filled with rage at a near stranger for challenging your world view. Sorry, but that's life.

And since you can't control your rage, or direct it at that which angers and frightens you - precisely the problems that I named, which you think that I should stand by you to correct - you are just a verbal loose cannon of uncontrollable hatred.

Why would you post "JUST LIKE YOUR ILLEGAL FRIENDS"? This is irrational. What do Mexicans in America illegally have to do with me or my neighbors? And even though that was pointed out to you, you post this phrase in caplock. Is this to hurt or offend me? Of course. That's what I mean by uncontrolled, unfocused hate and rage - a loose cannon.

So, fare the well.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#10056 Nov 22, 2009
Atticus Tiberius Finch wrote:
<quoted text>
I agreed.The Iraq war was nothing but an ego thing for Bush and his neo-con advisors.
They had plans drawn up to invade since day 1 of the Bush's administration. These neocons (Wolfowitz, Rumsfield) belonged to an organization called Project for the New American Century (PNAC) was an American think tank based in Washington, D.C. that lasted from early 1997 to 2006. It was co-founded as a non-profit educational organization by conservatives William Kristol and Robert Kagan. The PNAC's stated goal was "to promote American global leadership."
One of their goals was the removal of Saddam Hussein.
On September 20, 2001 (nine days after the September 11, 2001 attacks), the PNAC sent a letter to President George W. Bush, advocating "a determined effort to remove Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq," or regime change:
...even if evidence does not link Iraq directly to the attack, any strategy aiming at the eradication of terrorism and its sponsors must include a determined effort to remove Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq. Failure to undertake such an effort will constitute an early and perhaps decisive surrender in the war on international terrorism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_ ...
9/11 gave them the excuse to invade with the full knowledge that there was no connection between the secularist Saddam Hussein and the religious Al-qaeda.
Did you know that we supported Hussein during the Iran-Iraq war in the 1980s? In fact President Reagan decided that the United States "could not afford to allow Iraq to lose the war to Iran", and that the United States "would do whatever was necessary to prevent Iraq from losing the war with Iran.
As such, the war in Iraq was the brainchild of those who wanted to remove Hussein for reasons other than the war of terror. And each day we are paying for this mistake in American's blood and money.
Thanks for that, Atticus.

Yes, I was well aware of all of that history. Of course, the PNAC is older than day one of Bush II. Those reprobates came to Clinton with a request to depose Hussein (i.e., assassination or invasion, I presume) in 1998: http://snipurl.com/td9eu

And it is common knowledge that Reagan armed Hussein with weapons that included WMD such as poisonous gas, which Hussein used against his enemies.

It is extremely naïve to think that any part of American foreign policy in that region had anything to do with anything just or righteous, or even anything in the average American's interests.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#10057 Nov 22, 2009
Freedom up in Smoke wrote:
<quoted text>
The way I see it the very nature of socialism makes authoritarianism necessary. It (authoritarianism) is not a flaw in the system. It is the system - as well intentioned as it may be.
Then how do you account for all of the highly successful, social democracies in western Europe? One counterexample, like Sweden, disproves your contention that authoritarianism is inseparable from socialism.

"Now, they take him and they teach him and they groom him for life
And they set him on a path where he's bound to get ill,
Then they bury him with stars,
Sell his body like they do used cars.

"Now, he's hell-bent for destruction, he's afraid and confused,
And his brain has been mismanaged with great skill.
All he believes are his eyes
And his eyes, they just tell him lies. " - Dylan

There are people that oppose the concept of the distribution of wealth for any reason. They have spend a lot of time and money over the decades declaiming anybody that would advocate any government that did not let them own everything that they could seize. In the twentieth century, it was Communism, and the very word was demonized. It turned out to be a crappy and unstable form of government that immediately devolved into tyranny. But that was not what the money grubbers objected to. It was the inability to accumulate the obscene fortunes of tyrants past, like the Bourbons and Romanovs.

Today, the word "communism" has lost its teeth, and words like "pinko" are passe. Today, it's socialism, and a LOT of money is being spent to make sure that people like you hate it. But you can't be made to hate it for the reason that those monsters want you hate it: that it keeps them from owning everything. You have to be told that socialism will hurt you. You you are fed lies about its relationship to totalitarianism, even though a quick glance abroad is all that is necessary to dispel that myth.

You really owe to yourself and everybody else to transcend that.
wolverine

Greeley, CO

#10058 Nov 22, 2009
Are You Talking About Socialism in A Big Umbrella National Sense Or In A Individual Sense ?? I for one work to better myself and my families conditions. I dont do it to become a filty rich pig. And that leads to the next point.

Working hard for a living, and then having someone tell you how you will share your money with the lazy is absurd. I help many along the way, as alot of Christians do, but i will not be forced to do so!

Many on the left want to become like Europe, i do not.

“Freedom Demands Responsibility”

Since: Aug 09

21st Century

#10059 Nov 22, 2009
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL. Why don't you let us on the left tell you what we advocate, not our enemies. Tyrrany is not a liberal principle, no matter what other conservatives told you. Nor is genocide. There are very few ideas from any of the men whose names you listed that constitute liberal thought....
Woof, Aint, Did you skip History during your education? The Left = Socialism, Communism, Marxism, or Fascism. May I name a few mass murderer Heads of State under these Flags. Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Musolini, Polpot, Choichesque. In the U.S, the only U. S. President to ever round up a group of citizens by race alone and lock them in prison camps was the great "Progressive" Franklin Delano Roosevelt, a Socialist himself. "Tyranny is not a liberal principle ... nor is genocide". Liberals are the most dangerous of all people on earth, they strip freedom from others with impunity.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#10060 Nov 22, 2009
wolverine wrote:
Are You Talking About Socialism in A Big Umbrella National Sense Or In A Individual Sense ?? I for one work to better myself and my families conditions. I dont do it to become a filty rich pig. And that leads to the next point.
Working hard for a living, and then having someone tell you how you will share your money with the lazy is absurd. I help many along the way, as alot of Christians do, but i will not be forced to do so!
Many on the left want to become like Europe, i do not.
No, I do not advocate pure socialism. Actually, what I advocate is a mix of about 80%(regulated) capitalism and 20% socialism, that is, I would gladly pay about 20% of my earnings into a pool to spent on the collective as entitlements and benefits.

I think that the profit incentive is a valuable engine to drive innovation, industry and efficiency, and must be preserved. But the arena must be regulated to prevent this kind of Kapitalism that America has today, which Adam Smith would neither recognize nor approve (that's another post on the difference between Smith's invisible hand and the kleptocratic Republicans' invisible hand-in-your-401(k)-and-Social -Security-fund).

But charitable organizations can't and wouldn't replace the federal government when it comes to caring for the weak, sick, and unlucky. And if a few deadbeats slip by and milk the system, fine, so long as due diligence is used in the oversight of entitlements, and that the amount of fraud is kept minimal - about 5% is acceptable if it can't be reduced without throwing out the baby (legitimate need) with the bathwater (fraud).

Paying for that is kind and fair. Refusing on principle is just mean-spirited to me.

“Amor patriae.”

Since: Feb 08

Eastern Oregon

#10061 Nov 22, 2009
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
You're wrong, and you're nothing but hate.
You are obviously jingoistic in your support for America, and simply disagreeing with you makes me a monster in your eyes. I can live with that.
It's also obviously crucially important for you to maintain the facade of American righteousness. As I implied, that is merely another religion, albeit a secular one, and by that reckoning, I'm a blasphemer to you. Your anger and rage attests to that.
But as a result of these stereotypical responses, you cannot be talked to. You are filled with rage at a near stranger for challenging your world view. Sorry, but that's life.
And since you can't control your rage, or direct it at that which angers and frightens you - precisely the problems that I named, which you think that I should stand by you to correct - you are just a verbal loose cannon of uncontrollable hatred.
Why would you post "JUST LIKE YOUR ILLEGAL FRIENDS"? This is irrational. What do Mexicans in America illegally have to do with me or my neighbors? And even though that was pointed out to you, you post this phrase in caplock. Is this to hurt or offend me? Of course. That's what I mean by uncontrolled, unfocused hate and rage - a loose cannon.
So, fare the well.
"Monster" is a label given to unknown, unconventional predators that instill fear. You ain't that. Not by any stretch. You're common, average and nondescript. Just another thief in the night; get what you can and split. America was okay while that 401k was building but as soon as things changed, the nest egg wasn't getting bigger, you bailed.

Let's count your "Hate" and "Rage" bombs, three each I think. As you may have read somewhere, "He that toucheth pitch shall be defiled therewith." Brother, you have been defiled. lol

The inability to draw simple comparisons must be an symptom of something, what, I don't know, but it can't be good. The only difference between you and the common wet-back is the direction you sneak when crossing the border. You accumulated the benefits of the country you despise and slinked away to spend it. You eat the fruit without tending the orchard. This country is fine as long as you're satisfied, but 'corrupt' when the ol' 401k started to shrink.

"Nothing stings us so bitterly as the loss of money."

That's why you left, simple as that.

Good riddance.

“ad maiora nati sumus ”

Since: Sep 09

Justice Scalia is an Oxymoron

#10062 Nov 22, 2009
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for that, Atticus.
Yes, I was well aware of all of that history. Of course, the PNAC is older than day one of Bush II. Those reprobates came to Clinton with a request to depose Hussein (i.e., assassination or invasion, I presume) in 1998: http://snipurl.com/td9eu
And it is common knowledge that Reagan armed Hussein with weapons that included WMD such as poisonous gas, which Hussein used against his enemies.
It is extremely naïve to think that any part of American foreign policy in that region had anything to do with anything just or righteous, or even anything in the average American's interests.
Ever since the Republicans in the congress rejected Woodrow Wilson's ideas after WWI including being part of the League of Nations, United States has always supported right-wing dictatorships.

It has been stated:

American leaders grew preoccupied by international order in the wake of the disruption of World War I, the rise of radical nationalism combined with a decline of Western power, a questioning of traditional authority in nations, and greater demands for self-determination. This emphasis on order came to permeate policymaking in Washington, and the United States found strong-arm rule, the maintenance of stability, anticommunism, and protection of investments sufficient reasons to support nondemocratic rulers on the right. The often-quoted apocryphal statement by Franklin D. Roosevelt concerning Somoza of Nicaragua, "he may be a son-of-a-bitch, but he is our son-of-a-bitch," captures the American attitudes and policy toward right-wing dictatorships. http://www.answers.com/topic/dictatorship

As such, our foreign policy has always been self-interest of the current monied interest (i.e. oil) rather than the Jeffersonian ideas of promoting self-government by the people.

BTW, regarding those "others" on this board, remembered what
Benjamin Franklin remarked: Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.

Keep up the good work, you're not alone.
wolverine

Greeley, CO

#10063 Nov 22, 2009
It aint necessarily so .......I Could Live With 90/10 Split.....I Wanted To Move To New Zealand....But Its Quite Liberal There !

I Know In The Near Future There Will Be A Civil Uprising And Possible War In America!

But This Is Not Surprising To Me.....I Know You Dont Believe In GOD....But I Do And This Is Talked About In Revelations !

A Country Devided Will Fall!

“ad maiora nati sumus ”

Since: Sep 09

Justice Scalia is an Oxymoron

#10064 Nov 22, 2009
wolverine wrote:
Working hard for a living, and then having someone tell you how you will share your money with the lazy is absurd. I help many along the way, as alot of Christians do, but i will not be forced to do so!
You are 75 years too late. Ever heard of the Social Security Act of 1935? Every time you get your paycheck from your employer there is a payroll tax called FICA which stands for Federal Insurance Contributions Act. This tax pays for current social security recipients.

As such, someone (the government) is telling you to share (by FICA taxaton)your money with the lazy (social security recipients).

Since: Nov 09

Owatonna

#10065 Nov 22, 2009
John wrote:
I believe in sunshine. I believe in rain. I believe in the flight of the bumblebee. Why even attempt such nonsense. The quack doctor realized he was a fraud along time ago. He finally admitted the failure to himself and now generally posts incorrectly on a whole host of radical viewpoints.
<quoted text>
Quack doctor, is that supposed to me?

You keep asking about limiting natural parameters. What does that have to do with belief in a supreme being/creator, or are we talking mathematical theorems?

Who created the creator? I hold the belief he/she/it was man made back when people though the earth was flat and lightning would scare the hell out of them. Back when the physical world was a complete mystery to humans.

But maybe you're a theistic evolutionist and therefore accept some science and don't thump the bible too hard. I don't know, but regardless that still leave the question. Who created the creator.
wolverine

Greeley, CO

#10066 Nov 22, 2009
Atticus Tiberius Finch wrote:
<quoted text>
You are 75 years too late. Ever heard of the Social Security Act of 1935? Every time you get your paycheck from your employer there is a payroll tax called FICA which stands for Federal Insurance Contributions Act. This tax pays for current social security recipients.
As such, someone (the government) is telling you to share (by FICA taxaton)your money with the lazy (social security recipients).
No....Im Talking About The Health Care Ummm Scam.....And Yes I Know About Social Security...But Most Of Those Paid For Many Years Into The System !

“ad maiora nati sumus ”

Since: Sep 09

Justice Scalia is an Oxymoron

#10067 Nov 22, 2009
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Then how do you account for all of the highly successful, social democracies in western Europe? One counterexample, like Sweden, disproves your contention that authoritarianism is inseparable from socialism.
"Now, they take him and they teach him and they groom him for life
And they set him on a path where he's bound to get ill,
Then they bury him with stars,
Sell his body like they do used cars.
"Now, he's hell-bent for destruction, he's afraid and confused,
And his brain has been mismanaged with great skill.
All he believes are his eyes
And his eyes, they just tell him lies. " - Dylan
There are people that oppose the concept of the distribution of wealth for any reason. They have spend a lot of time and money over the decades declaiming anybody that would advocate any government that did not let them own everything that they could seize. In the twentieth century, it was Communism, and the very word was demonized. It turned out to be a crappy and unstable form of government that immediately devolved into tyranny. But that was not what the money grubbers objected to. It was the inability to accumulate the obscene fortunes of tyrants past, like the Bourbons and Romanovs.
Today, the word "communism" has lost its teeth, and words like "pinko" are passe. Today, it's socialism, and a LOT of money is being spent to make sure that people like you hate it. But you can't be made to hate it for the reason that those monsters want you hate it: that it keeps them from owning everything. You have to be told that socialism will hurt you. You you are fed lies about its relationship to totalitarianism, even though a quick glance abroad is all that is necessary to dispel that myth.
You really owe to yourself and everybody else to transcend that.
People who spew out "socialism" "communism" "fascism" to demonize others have absolute no concept of these labels. These labels bear no resemblance to what the writer is attempting to convey.

It is no accident that social democracies flourish in Europe. Europe was the home of the Age of Enlightenment with its philosophers Locke (noted for idea of government by the consent of the power), Montesquieu (noted for his concept of separation of powers in government), Hume, Rousseau, Spinoza, Kant and others.

Our Founding Fathers who many were schooled in the classics were taught by teachers who were influenced by the ideas emanated by these "liberal" philosophers who believed that reason instead of faith should govern man's affairs in social, economic, political and religious endeavors.

It is no wonder that in the 19th century, the great thinkers originated in Europe, such as, Charles Darwin, Sigmund Freud, Gregor Mendel, Louis Pasteur, John Stuart Mill, Arthur Schopenhauer, and others.

Can you imagine a "Charles Darwin" living in today's anti-science and anti-intellectual climate here in America? This "Charles Darwin" would find a warm reception in Europe because Europeans
understood by their past the need for "liberal" ideas to flourish.

“ad maiora nati sumus ”

Since: Sep 09

Justice Scalia is an Oxymoron

#10068 Nov 22, 2009
wolverine wrote:
It aint necessarily so .......I Could Live With 90/10 Split.....I Wanted To Move To New Zealand....But Its Quite Liberal There !
Let me see what kind of country would suit your obession for conservative "values." First, it would have to be a theocracy since we all know religious leaders are the best leaders to run a government and thus the lives of its people. Secondly, the country should not promote "liberal" agendas such as health care, social security benefits, public schools, social entitlements. Thirdly, the country should be authoritarian with no "liberal" civil rights, such as, right to trial by jury, search warrants, freedom of speech, freedom of religion and other "worthless" rights.

The only country in the 21st century that meets your stringent
criteria would be....(drum roll)... IRAN!

Better start learning farsi

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