Atheists on the march in America

Aug 26, 2009 Full story: TurkishPress.com 70,979

When South Florida atheists held their first meeting, they were just five friends, having a beer at a bar.

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“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#10009 Nov 21, 2009
mdbuilder wrote:
Now, when you should be defending America, you take your money and run. Just like the illegals you're rubbing elbows with.
Defending America from what? Conservatives and theists? What you have had me do that requires me to live in America, anyway?

Take the money and run? I donít have a penny that I didnít earn. America paid me in exchange for my professional expertise, and it did so begrudgingly with continual cutbacks built into the law that require an act of Congress every two years to prevent. You will see physicians faced with a 20+ cut in pay next year unless Congress passed a law to prevent it.

And how does it hurt America that I moved my savings from there to here? Cashing out my 401(k) before the crash was a lucky and narrow escape. Getting it and the rest of it out of American banks before they fail, and getting my savings converted from dollars to any other currency before the dollar fails was pretty important, too. My wife depends on me to be smart about those things for both of us. Your currency and your banks scare the hell out of me.

You just donít the like the idea of my rejecting something that you consider precious, just as with Jesus. Sorry.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#10010 Nov 21, 2009
mdbuilder wrote:
Just like the illegals you're rubbing elbows with.


Another reason I donít want to live in America is because I donít like most Americans, and you have beautifully illustrated why. The people Iím rubbing elbows with are Mexicans living in Mexico. They are not illegals.

What kind of filthy thought is that of yours to gratuitously and erroneously slur an entire nation for no reason. What kind of a person are you? I got pretty tired of knowing people who talk like you do.

And Iíll tell you what. I like these new neighbors a far sight more than those Christian conservatives who made up 80% of my world in rural Missouri, a red state surrounded by red states where the South meets the Midwest. They spoke like you do. Those arenít my people any more.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#10011 Nov 21, 2009
mdbuilder wrote:
finding excuses for abandoning the home that raised you. You don't come across as a man willing to abandon everything and everyone you've ever known for purely philosophical reasons.
Iím a secular liberal. America abandoned me. I got tired of being thought about and talked about like I was an infection for my beliefs, like the Pligrims that you undoubtedly admire, and I handled it the same way.

Iíve got news for you: America has abandoned you, too. It just lies and lies and lies to its people as it screws them.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#10012 Nov 21, 2009
mdbuilder wrote:
. But, since you're still an American (I'll bet you didn't give up your citizenship) you know in your heart you can always come running home to 'mommy' when the shit hits the fan (makes your expatriation much more palatable, huh?).
I will likely never return. Your country is too dangerous in too many ways. It is much more likely that some day, you will feel forced to emigrate, maybe Mexico, perhaps if (when) they declare martial law after the riots break out. Perhaps you will come here under cover of night illegally. Wonít that be rich.

Oh, and you can have my American citizenship. For a quarter. But I want it in pesos.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#10013 Nov 21, 2009
mdbuilder wrote:
Now, when you should be defending America, you take your money and run. Just like the illegals you're rubbing elbows with.
I nearly forgot: There is no America anymore: http://snipurl.com/rzwbl

You conservatives and Christians speak about liberals and atheists like we're insects, like we're enemies, like a plague, like reprobates, fools, like cowards and appeasers, and too much more to repeat.

Now, when you think that I should somehow pitch in, somehow, we're all Americans again. The hell we are. I'm still a secular liberal, remember? I have no connection whatsoever to about half of you in America, and I have zero interest or incentive in defending people like you or in helping you in any other way, as with my taxes.

As I said before, Homey don't play dat. You're not my compatriot any more. That ended almost a decade ago. You're not my anything. I don't care about what you care about, and I don't want what you want.

Your half of the country lost my support long ago, and looking at America now, I see a country that it is so full of weak minded and hateful Christians and conservatives that I consider it totaled and unredeemable anyway, not to mention unsafe politically and economically.

Frankly, I not only don't believe that America will take care of or defend me, I don't think it has the ability or the mind to do that. American citizens are seen by their government as objects to lie to exploit.

You defend it.

“The King of R&R”

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#10014 Nov 21, 2009
progressive wrote:
I suggest that Redoran read the play, J. b., by Archibald MacLeish - and look for the lines: "If God is god, He is not goodp if god is good, he is not God; take the even, take the odd, I would not sleep here if I could, except for the wind in the grass, and the little geen leaves in the wood." That might modify the view of the "dirtball" earth. I see the planet as a tragic place - with just enough love and beauty and kindness in it to be endearing, and yet full of essential betrayals, like pain and death, and cruelty. I do not see the superstitious ones as aliens, I see them as ignorant - descendents of submissive (to the powerful) and bullying (to the weak) ancestors - in full accord with most of nature, and mankind.I also recommend reading the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam, Fitzgerald translation, for a more joyous skepticism, and easy-going agnosticism. and a sort of determinism, and a way of dealing with it - only not too much wine!
OK- so I was in a rush. when i spoke of the religiosos as "aliens", I truly meant that they are "aliens to logic and intellect". in effect, they truly scare me with their outright threats that "I" must believe in their savior, to be saved. saved from what? again. saved form what????? they, I am sorry, are promulgating/promoting the purest of idiocy. to me that is truly scarey considering the century we are in. I ask the question, "how much longer to the next fundie inquistion of the innocents"?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#10015 Nov 21, 2009
progressive wrote:
<quoted text> I have a much more mixed view of nature - I see life as full of pain, suffering, death, viciousness, indifference, bad options, cruelty - animal life and human life, and even some plants. I see that as being well within the powers of the vicious god described in the Bible. Only if he saw that it was good, he was an egomaniac and a fool. It is an awful creation - not merely awesome in mountains as they look now, when one is far enough away not to see the stresses on life there. If I believed in either the Biblical God or a creator of this universe as it is, I would sooner think it was the devil rather than a good God. I suppose that if I have a source of rage, it would be due to the suffering of life. There is a great quotation: "Life is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel." Trying to approach it with one's mind, instead of one's feelings, is a form of self-protection, to the extent that one can do nothing about the overall mess. I just believe in using feelings to drive specific actions to make specific improvements. I am deeply pessimistic as an ultimate philosophy - Schopenhauer is my philosopher, in my soul, just as Mahler's saddest strains are my music. But my mind goes to Santayana and Spinoza to try to figure out how to be cooler, less feeling, and more intent on trying to make the best of things, as best I can. Being a determinist takes some of the teeth out of being hostile to persons, also. O think we are all victims of victims - and that nature itself is deeply flawed. If I were asked to decide whether the universe is better existing than not at all, with all the suffering vs all the supposed majesty, I would weigh the suffering of a little animal against the beauty of the mountain, and I think I might even choose to side with the mouse against the mountain.
Maybe we are not as alike as I had thought. It occurred to me that you might see a much darker universe than I do when you mentioned Schopenhauer. Those Germanic philosophers - Kant, Hegel, Nietzsche - sees a more heartless, brutal universe, one of struggle, rigor, striving, willing, exerting and prevailing. That's not my psyche at all, and they scare me. Santayana is not as harsh, but consistent with that. So were Hobbes, Malthus and others. To some of these guys, the world is just one great big shit sandwich, and every day is another bite.

But you also zeroed in on Spinoza, who is, in my opinion, just about the nicest human being ever to write an important treatise on ethics. He would have been a great man to have known. He was also one of Einstein's favorites.

So, you're an amalgam, like somebody who has seen and felt the horror and has been scarred by it, but reaches for the light anyway.

Is that you?

“The King of R&R”

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#10016 Nov 21, 2009
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand that rage, although itís been waning for me ever since I cut the cord with America last summer. And it's not due to anything that any theist ever said or did to me, or any local church or other local entity.
The basis of the rage was what I perceived from the news that the Christians were doing to my world en masse, such as making it possible for George Bush to become president twice.
Almost all of my rage for theists relates to their influence on politics in America. Since emigrating Ė and the cord is virtually completely severed now - American politics has become more like what Canadian or European politics used to be: interesting, but not directly bearing on my life. No American gets too angry about Christians trying to force Icelanders to do anything.
But back when that was my home, my country, I was outraged and enraged by the Christians there, and if that is similar to Redoranís thoughts, then all I can say is that I understand. And how, I understand. I feel it welling up again: idiot American clergy, not just vetting, but anointing the monkey boy, and in so doing, incompetently directing the huge majority of Christians to Bush and his puppeteers fascisitic vision. How can you not be outraged at that apart from divorcing yourself from it?
And Iím no good at concealing my contempt. Iím reminded of Mae West in My Little Chickadee, making a snide remark under her breath in court before the judge, who sternly rebukes her with (paraphrasing),ďMrs. West! Are you trying to show contempt for this court?Ē to which she replied,ďNo, your honor. Iím doing my damnedest to conceal it.Ē
yes--Monkey Boy Bush being re-elected. just amazing. agreed googol percent

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#10017 Nov 21, 2009
wolverine wrote:
Elvin Bishop..The Outlaws
You have esoteric tastes. Neither of those is very well known.

Elvin Bishop never became a star except for fifteen minutes, when he fooled around and fell in love, a song which is absolutely nothing like the rest of his oeuvre. But he could jam and he could party.

The Outlaws Ė I only know of one album, and only remember one song from it, Green Grass And High Tides, which I am absolutely sure you know and love. Itís right in there, like the last half of Freebird, and even Going Home for that matter. I think I know your kind of guitarist. You like whupp ass guitar Ė fast and energetic.
wolverine wrote:
But I Got Ahold Of A Rare Studio Version Of Stevie Ray Vaughn And Carlos Santana, Doing A Song Called Traffic Jam...Kick Butt!
Wow! Thatís almost unimaginable, those two. SRV fits in with your other choices Ė lots of energy and crunch. But Santana is more my kind of guitarist Ė crisp, clear, melodic and soulful. They seem to have nothing in common but speed, and Santana doesnít play at top speed one quarter as often as SRV.
wolverine wrote:
Id Take Music Over Politics And Discussing Religion Any Day!
Agreed. So, I wonder why they feed us a steady of diet of religion and politics? You donít suppose itís to keep us divided, do you?[a rhetorical question only, not a request to return to bickering]

“The King of R&R”

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#10018 Nov 21, 2009
we certainly look forward to the hadron collider finally putting to rest all of existing superstitions of ms. jesu, heaven, hell, purgatory, and all the rest of the xtian crappuses and most importantly, all protestants and catholics, hopefully to render their parts into the compost pile (of their many times mentioned) "eternity". keltic, the one with guns and many killings- take note.

“The King of R&R”

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#10019 Nov 21, 2009
Hey xtian fundiseased ones, here is a quote from your wonderful "book of love":

Bible Quote for November 29



Kill Pagans, Mediums, and Psychics



He executed the priests of the pagan shrines on their own altars, and he burned human bones on the altars to desecrate them. Finally, he returned to Jerusalem. King Josiah then issued this order to all the people: "You must celebrate the Passover to the LORD your God, as it is written in the Book of the Covenant." There had not been a Passover celebration like that since the time when the judges ruled in Israel, throughout all the years of the kings of Israel and Judah. This Passover was celebrated to the LORD in Jerusalem during the eighteenth year of King Josiah's reign. Josiah also exterminated the mediums and psychics, the household gods, and every other kind of idol worship, both in Jerusalem and throughout the land of Judah. He did this in obedience to all the laws written in the scroll that Hilkiah the priest had found in the LORD's Temple. Never before had there been a king like Josiah, who turned to the LORD with all his heart and soul and strength, obeying all the laws of Moses. And there has never been a king like him since.(2 Kings 23:20-25 NLT)
YukYukYuk

Staten Island, NY

#10020 Nov 21, 2009
wolverine wrote:
<quoted text>
Well My Thoughts Are...It Was Burned Into The Cloth As He Was Resurected To Heaven.....Dont Ask Me The Scientific Ins And Outs....Just My Opinion.
Sorry, I watch CSI (Crime Scene Investigation) on TV, and that's the kind of forensic medicine questions they ask. But are you interested in Climatology?
YukYukYuk

Staten Island, NY

#10021 Nov 21, 2009
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I nearly forgot: There is no America anymore: http://snipurl.com/rzwbl
You conservatives and Christians speak about liberals and atheists like we're insects, like we're enemies, like a plague, like reprobates, fools, like cowards and appeasers, and too much more to repeat.
Now, when you think that I should somehow pitch in, somehow, we're all Americans again. The hell we are. I'm still a secular liberal, remember? I have no connection whatsoever to about half of you in America, and I have zero interest or incentive in defending people like you or in helping you in any other way, as with my taxes.
As I said before, Homey don't play dat. You're not my compatriot any more. That ended almost a decade ago. You're not my anything. I don't care about what you care about, and I don't want what you want.
Your half of the country lost my support long ago, and looking at America now, I see a country that it is so full of weak minded and hateful Christians and conservatives that I consider it totaled and unredeemable anyway, not to mention unsafe politically and economically.
Frankly, I not only don't believe that America will take care of or defend me, I don't think it has the ability or the mind to do that. American citizens are seen by their government as objects to lie to exploit.
You defend it.
You know, from playing video games, I was told I would make a good pilot. But then I read that the Armed Services are turning really christian cultish. As an atheist, I don't think I would be safe from my own people in the army. I think they would hate me. If they ever have a separate unit for atheists, I would join. They need a separate unit for gays too. My father said if they ever start a draft, I'm going to Canada.

“No Bishop,No King,No Nobility”

Since: May 08

The Underworld

#10022 Nov 21, 2009
Freedom up in Smoke wrote:
<quoted text>
Thats interesting.You are saying that the "design" of nature is so intricate that it could not have been "designed" at all.That is unique logic to say the least.
I think it's pretty sound logic.

Take a look at a modern city like NYC.

Originally NYC {was} designed. It was {MUCH} simpler then.

Now it has gone {way} beyond such simple things as design.

“Evolve”

Since: Dec 07

GJ, CO

#10023 Nov 21, 2009
YukYukYuk wrote:
<quoted text>
You know, from playing video games, I was told I would make a good pilot. But then I read that the Armed Services are turning really christian cultish. As an atheist, I don't think I would be safe from my own people in the army. I think they would hate me. If they ever have a separate unit for atheists, I would join. They need a separate unit for gays too. My father said if they ever start a draft, I'm going to Canada.
I think I remember it was the Air Force Academy that was absolutely blatantly BAWN AGGIN, and harassed cadets who weren't. There was supposed to be corrective action taken to re-secularize the Academy environment. I wonder if that's what really happened?

“No Bishop,No King,No Nobility”

Since: May 08

The Underworld

#10024 Nov 21, 2009
It aint necessarily so wrote:
I was saying how Iíve noticed that for most Americans, liberty has become nothing more than a feel-good word void of content to which they just give lip service. That is, everybodyís for liberty, except when theyíre not, such as people who are for liberty, but not abortion, or people who are for liberty, but not same sex marriage, or people who are for liberty, but not stem cell research, or people who are for liberty, but not for flag burning, or people who are for liberty, but not to smoke pot, or people who are for liberty, but not for others to go to Cuba, etc., etc., etc.. They never seem to care about the liberty of others.
I'd say that's the difference between liberalism and conservatism.(Here we go with politics again LOL.)

Liberty is to liberal as conserve is to conservative,{yet} all of the conservatives claim to love liberty too while espousing dire hatred of liberalism.

I define the true difference between the American liberal and the American conservative by the following two statements:

Liberalism: Government, let {people} live {their} lives the way {they} want to

Conservatism: Government, don't tell ME what to do and stay out of MY life

Conservatives say they want liberty, but what they mean is that they want personal freedom for themselves. They have no concern for others as long as they get theirs.

Those two phrases are where everything divides, and how the extremes can be such opposites while claiming the same underlying values... go further to the left and you find socialists, who are willing to put the care of others above their own... and to the farther right you find authoritarians who would take others rights away so they can't be bothered with people that are different interfering with their lives simply by existing

“No Bishop,No King,No Nobility”

Since: May 08

The Underworld

#10025 Nov 21, 2009
progressive wrote:
I think that there are nice ones who really are rather clueless, and need it spelled out for them, maybe even kindly.
I feel ya.

But I just don't care that much.

Plus, I find that being overly verbose tends to have the reverse effect, and makes things worse.

The really clueless ones get even more confused by the explanation, and through their confusion they tend to lash out like caged wild animals.

I really don't find it worth my time to go through all the trouble of spelling it out to them like they were a five year old child only for them to take it completely wrong and lash out.
Freedom up in Smoke

United States

#10026 Nov 21, 2009
Path wrote:
<quoted text>I think it's pretty sound logic.
Take a look at a modern city like NYC.
Originally NYC {was} designed. It was {MUCH} simpler then.
Now it has gone {way} beyond such simple things as design.
I really don't follow you at all.Unless you are distinguishing between the oringinal "design" of New York City and the now "many designs" of same.They were still "designs" with "designers" of some sort. I think I understand what you are trying to get at but that really wasn't a very good illustration at all. No offense.
Freedom up in Smoke

United States

#10027 Nov 21, 2009
Path wrote:
<quoted text>I'd say that's the difference between liberalism and conservatism.(Here we go with politics again LOL.)
Liberty is to liberal as conserve is to conservative,{yet} all of the conservatives claim to love liberty too while espousing dire hatred of liberalism.
I define the true difference between the American liberal and the American conservative by the following two statements:
Liberalism: Government, let {people} live {their} lives the way {they} want to
Conservatism: Government, don't tell ME what to do and stay out of MY life
Conservatives say they want liberty, but what they mean is that they want personal freedom for themselves. They have no concern for others as long as they get theirs.
Those two phrases are where everything divides, and how the extremes can be such opposites while claiming the same underlying values... go further to the left and you find socialists, who are willing to put the care of others above their own... and to the farther right you find authoritarians who would take others rights away so they can't be bothered with people that are different interfering with their lives simply by existing
I'm sorry but the further left you go will find an even BIGGER likelihood of authoritarinism.The history of the twentieth century will attest to that fact. You will probably give Hitler as an example of the right going array. No, he was a Socialist. It is in the name of the party.Stalin,Mao,Palpot,Castro ,Hitler all examples of great supression and opression from the left. The misery that these people caused their people "on their behalf" is beyond words.

“No Bishop,No King,No Nobility”

Since: May 08

The Underworld

#10028 Nov 21, 2009
Freedom up in Smoke wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sorry but the further left you go will find an even BIGGER likelihood of authoritarinism.The history of the twentieth century will attest to that fact. You will probably give Hitler as an example of the right going array. No, he was a Socialist. It is in the name of the party.Stalin,Mao,Palpot,Castro ,Hitler all examples of great supression and opression from the left. The misery that these people caused their people "on their behalf" is beyond words.
The concept of the line is a misnomer.

It's a circle.

If you go far enough in either direction you come up on the other side.

P.S. The entire right/left dichotomy stems from the French parliament during the time of the French revolution, with the seats to the right in support of the monarchy (authoritarian) and the seats to the left in favor of democracy (liberty).

P.P.S. I'm not going to explain the difference between "national socialism" and "socialism" to you, but I will simply tell you you're wrong.

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