Atheists on the march in America

Atheists on the march in America

There are 70650 comments on the TurkishPress.com story from Aug 26, 2009, titled Atheists on the march in America. In it, TurkishPress.com reports that:

When South Florida atheists held their first meeting, they were just five friends, having a beer at a bar.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at TurkishPress.com.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#67141 Jan 17, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
I didn't ask how is it possible that human's can think about the abstract you are hiding from my question as expected. Again what I asked was is where did the concept or notion of a god come from? Where does the idea originate from?
This seems to terrify you and your logical fallacies. Let's see if you can actually answer this and stop humiliating yourself on front of those who are way smarter than you. Way way way way smarter than you.
<quoted text>
Givemeliberty

See post 67051: You write...,"Wow you love you some special pleading! Well since that I your favorite logical fallacy explain how we even have the concept or notion of god? If he is totally outside the observable how did the notion of there being a god even arise?"(Note: I left in the errors....RF)

My answer: You did ask "how".
I gave you an answer concerning "how".

Your counter is now that you never asked "how".

My answer: You have been proved wrong.

Comment: It is hard to debate with someone when their brain doesn't function well, your grammer is atrocious, and your memory the same. Your rhetoric is excellent. Your logic is average.

Good day.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#67142 Jan 17, 2013
Got to go. See you tomorrow, God willing.
NorthbyNW

Denver, CO

#67143 Jan 17, 2013
The average atheist makes much ado about evidence, but he doesn't really care about it one way or another. That much is *evident* in the deadening redundancy of scientific factoids found on atheist forums. He knows God exists, he just refuses to bow down to the Christian version of diety.

Since: Apr 11

Santa Monica, CA

#67144 Jan 17, 2013
NorthbyNW wrote:
The average atheist makes much ado about evidence, but he doesn't really care about it one way or another. That much is *evident* in the deadening redundancy of scientific factoids found on atheist forums. He knows God exists, he just refuses to bow down to the Christian version of diety.
This is one of the stupider fundie "arguments". If I did believe in your god, why would I say I didn't?

Since: Mar 11

Chicago, IL

#67145 Jan 17, 2013
I didn't see your proof for a prime mover pussyassbitch. Get your nothing out of here! Stop with the ineptitude and show proof for your claim bitchboy for Christ!

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahah a!
John wrote:
I didn't catch your scientific, natural explanation for the universe. Do you have one? Don't skip steps.

Since: Mar 11

Chicago, IL

#67146 Jan 17, 2013
Wow my iPhone changed is to I! Holy hells bells stop the presses! Lmfao!

Again how do we have the concept and notion of god? All you said was, well because humans can have such a notion.

Well gee wiz captain obvious! Humans talking about the notion of god have a notion of god! Whew doggies you are really on a roll now! Now where do these notions come from retard? Stop obfuscating what I said it's not helping you.

Now since you lack the IQ or perhaps the intellectual honesty, most likely both, let me answer the question that you keep hiding from.

The notion of god came from ancient people as an explanation for what they observed around them. They lacked the understanding and tools that we have today and were just doing their best. They believed there was a wind god for example who blew the wind as he saw fit, they even had rituals before traveling to try to make the wind blow with them rather than against them. This ritual was performed and at that time the wind direction changed and now we have these ancient people thinking their silly dance could change the wind direction. This superstition is passed down through the generations. Later they had gods of the trees, animals, water, sun, and so on after a while the superstition had people thinking there was a god for everything that they could perform rituals do to do their bidding. When things went their way in the field that meant the wheat god was with them. When the crop went south the wheat god was angry or acting mysteriously! Perhaps the wheat god wasn't pleased with their dancing and chanting he needs more right? So let's kill some animals and pour their blood on the field! Hey it worked a week later the wheat started growing again! Good thing to because children would be sacrificed if it didn't!

And following this pattern we pretty much can sum up how we have the notion of god passed down to us.

Now today we know that there is no reason to sacrifice children to make crops grow as we have agricultural developments that actually work time and time again. We don't need to dance around brandishing our buttocks to the wind so it blows in the proper direction we just check the weather on our phone and plan accordingly. Today we laugh at such notions of dancing for the wind. Today we would be horrified if a farmer went on TV and said he was going to sacrifice his children so his crops would grow better. Our understanding is better and with that the superstitious ways of the past seem quaint and at times horrifying.

The ancient people were mistaken Robert. They lived in the shadow of superstition and delusion. Today we can be free of that. Break those chains of superstitious slavery Robert, the wind doesn't care if we taunt it by brandishing our buttocks at it.
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
Givemeliberty
See post 67051: You write...,"Wow you love you some special pleading! Well since that I your favorite logical fallacy explain how we even have the concept or notion of god? If he is totally outside the observable how did the notion of there being a god even arise?"(Note: I left in the errors....RF)
My answer: You did ask "how".
I gave you an answer concerning "how".
Your counter is now that you never asked "how".
My answer: You have been proved wrong.
Comment: It is hard to debate with someone when their brain doesn't function well, your grammer is atrocious, and your memory the same. Your rhetoric is excellent. Your logic is average.
Good day.

“I'm out hunting”

Since: Jan 10

For your mind and soul

#67148 Jan 18, 2013
NorthbyNW wrote:
The average atheist makes much ado about evidence, but he doesn't really care about it one way or another. That much is *evident* in the deadening redundancy of scientific factoids found on atheist forums. He knows God exists, he just refuses to bow down to the Christian version of diety.
The average xtian is convinced that us atheist know that God exist despite our adamant statements to the contrary.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#67150 Jan 18, 2013
Henry wrote:
<quoted text>
The more people are educated, the more are atheists. That is quite logical why they are on the forward march! But in the age of nuclear age we do have very little time to stay alive! Capitalism has to be abolished in order to survive!
Hello Henry

Sounds like you are in a desperate place....

Now I am not saying atheists are more or less educated. But if a person, or generation is more educated, wouldn't it seem more likely a solution could be found to modify capitalism.

Rather than lay blame on capitalism, as another failed "ism", the incentives must be made a source of wealth. In other words the definition of wealth must change. To abolish it would crash the whole system. It would be chaos.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#67151 Jan 18, 2013
Rose_NoHo wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe "felling" is the wrong word.
Let me put on my Spock ears:
If there is an all-powerful, all-knowing, honest deity who cares about us and what we do, and who has promised to answer our prayers, logic dictates there is evidence of his existence.
(At this point I'm not saying what would or wouldn't "count" as evidence, or if the evidence exists, or not.)
<quoted text>
This god is supposed to be everywhere, so distance could not be an issue.
<quoted text>
But mountains aren't all powerful, and they aren't interested in what we do.
<quoted text>
Well, if there were an elephant in my kitchen, I would see, hear, and smell the evidence. And an elephant isn't even all powerful. But my main point was that in some cases, you can prove a negative.
Maybe we do have to agree to disagree.
Rose Hoho

Well...,lets disagree to agree(smile).

I am just trying to understand, so in the end, my point is not that I prove or disprove God's existence based on evidence. But if I can understand someone elses view, then I have better understanding....

I would say, that distance does make a difference in determing if one can "see" God....Using the elephant again, if you were 20 miles away, I doubt you could see the elephant. Or if your eyeball were right on the elephant, you could not see the elephant. So the distance becomes important between the object and viewer.

In modern spiritualism, there is this "sense" of seeing God. But I would deny this is God. And I think this is where most are lacking in understanding.

Why?

If God is Truth, then one is bonded to Truth by definition, and this is Religion.
But if Religion is Truth, then one is bonded to Oneself, and is therefore a Lie.

(If one looks infinitely far, or infinitely within, then one is bonded....In other words practicing Religion.
If one looks on the surface or within an infinite framework, then one is bonded to Oneself, and practicing a Lie.)

It is the incorrectness, the flaw one sees, the Lie, not in God, but in the individual in practicing Religion that makes brings doubt on God's existence.

So the "sense" of seeing God becomes a Lie, as spiritualism is merely looking at oneself. This makes the practioner of spiritualism a Liar.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#67152 Jan 18, 2013
Drew Smith wrote:
<quoted text>
And the evidence for any of this is...?
<quoted text>
Quantum mechanics doesn't say that you can't observe an electron. It says only that you can't identify the electron's *exact* location.
<quoted text>
But if one has no evidence for the existence of the mountain, on what rational basis can one claim that the mountain exists?
<quoted text>
Why not?
Drew Smith

That is my posit....The evidence will be developed....It might be that my posit is part of the evidence. I will have to think on the symmetry of this a bit. But the evidence itself may be assymetrical.

Actually an electron is mostly space, so what are we apparently observing? I don't know.

Does one need evidence for a rational basis/claim?
This is actually two question.
In general, I think no for both, because one might use reason instead of evidence.

Answer: I could be led into a room blindfolded and hear someone turn a light switch. By reason I think it is either to turn it on or off. There is no evidence the light is on or off.

So the question is the light on, or off, I cannot determine and that there is no evidence?

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#67153 Jan 18, 2013
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
I am just trying to understand, so in the end, my point is not that I prove or disprove God's existence based on evidence.
It is good that you realize there is no evidence for any deities.
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
I would say, that distance does make a difference in determing if one can "see" God....Using the elephant again, if you were 20 miles away, I doubt you could see the elephant. Or if your eyeball were right on the elephant, you could not see the elephant. So the distance becomes important between the object and viewer....
So this god you speak of is 20 miles away?
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
In modern spiritualism, there is this "sense" of seeing God. But I would deny this is God. And I think this is where most are lacking in understanding.
Why?
If God is Truth, then one is bonded to Truth by definition, and this is Religion.
But if Religion is Truth, then one is bonded to Oneself, and is therefore a Lie.
(If one looks infinitely far, or infinitely within, then one is bonded....In other words practicing Religion.
If one looks on the surface or within an infinite framework, then one is bonded to Oneself, and practicing a Lie.)
It is the incorrectness, the flaw one sees, the Lie, not in God, but in the individual in practicing Religion that makes brings doubt on God's existence.
So the "sense" of seeing God becomes a Lie, as spiritualism is merely looking at oneself. This makes the practioner of spiritualism a Liar.
To paraphrase you -- It is hard to debate with someone when their brain doesn't function well. Your logic is atrocious and your rhetoric is sub-par. Apparently you're just tossing word-salad out there in the hopes of some kind of lame obfuscation. Kind of funny, in a pathetic sort of way.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#67154 Jan 18, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Wow my iPhone changed is to I! Holy hells bells stop the presses! Lmfao!
Again how do we have the concept and notion of god? All you said was, well because humans can have such a notion.
Well gee wiz captain obvious! Humans talking about the notion of god have a notion of god! Whew doggies you are really on a roll now! Now where do these notions come from retard? Stop obfuscating what I said it's not helping you.
Now since you lack the IQ or perhaps the intellectual honesty, most likely both, let me answer the question that you keep hiding from.
The notion of god came from ancient people as an explanation for what they observed around them. They lacked the understanding and tools that we have today and were just doing their best. They believed there was a wind god for example who blew the wind as he saw fit, they even had rituals before traveling to try to make the wind blow with them rather than against them. This ritual was performed and at that time the wind direction changed and now we have these ancient people thinking their silly dance could change the wind direction. This superstition is passed down through the generations. Later they had gods of the trees, animals, water, sun, and so on after a while the superstition had people thinking there was a god for everything that they could perform rituals do to do their bidding. When things went their way in the field that meant the wheat god was with them. When the crop went south the wheat god was angry or acting mysteriously! Perhaps the wheat god wasn't pleased with their dancing and chanting he needs more right? So let's kill some animals and pour their blood on the field! Hey it worked a week later the wheat started growing again! Good thing to because children would be sacrificed if it didn't!
And following this pattern we pretty much can sum up how we have the notion of god passed down to us.
Now today we know that there is no reason to sacrifice children to make crops grow as we have agricultural developments that actually work time and time again. We don't need to dance around brandishing our buttocks to the wind so it blows in the proper direction we just check the weather on our phone and plan accordingly. Today we laugh at such notions of dancing for the wind. Today we would be horrified if a farmer went on TV and said he was going to sacrifice his children so his crops would grow better. Our understanding is better and with that the superstitious ways of the past seem quaint and at times horrifying.
The ancient people were mistaken Robert. They lived in the shadow of superstition and delusion. Today we can be free of that. Break those chains of superstitious slavery Robert, the wind doesn't care if we taunt it by brandishing our buttocks at it.
<quoted text>
Givemeliberty

Well....Its hard to answer a chicken/egg issue.

A notion is different than a concept. So it hard to make a single answer in both catagories.

So let me go with the concept you express.
You think because society is more complex, that people now, compared to a mere 2000, 5000, 10000,....etc years ago, because they did not have the tools for our complex society, were not sophisticated in their thinking? And therefore we should cut our ties with the past...?

Your explanation of "primitive" society assigning observation to form concepts may not be complex, but that does not mean they were wrong. In fact they were correct, otherwise we would not exist.

On the other hand....

As a matter of fact, with our modern society, we have greater natural and manmade disasters in many cases that were not present in the past.(Mainly, I am thinking ecological disaster.) So, at some point, when the ecology is dead, life will cease in a modern complex society, and your supposition that we should break with the past will cause the collapse.

So the opposite may be true. Modern notions will cause extinction

Givemeliberty or give me death....

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#67155 Jan 18, 2013
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
Drew Smith
That is my posit....The evidence will be developed....It might be that my posit is part of the evidence. I will have to think on the symmetry of this a bit. But the evidence itself may be assymetrical.
Actually an electron is mostly space, so what are we apparently observing? I don't know.
Does one need evidence for a rational basis/claim?
This is actually two question.
In general, I think no for both, because one might use reason instead of evidence.
Answer: I could be led into a room blindfolded and hear someone turn a light switch. By reason I think it is either to turn it on or off. There is no evidence the light is on or off.
So the question is the light on, or off, I cannot determine and that there is no evidence?
Can something be said to exist when there is no way of observing or measuring it?

If so, how can you really know that it's not just a part of your imagination?

Further, how can anyone else know except to accept your personal testimony. But then, if I accept your testimony as true, then how do I not accept everyone else's as also being true?

That would be utter madness which would leave one accepting claims of invisible fire-breathing dragons as readily as accepting any god claim.

No, I'll stick with what can be observed and/or measured.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#67156 Jan 18, 2013
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
It is good that you realize there is no evidence for any deities.
<quoted text>
So this god you speak of is 20 miles away?
<quoted text>
To paraphrase you -- It is hard to debate with someone when their brain doesn't function well. Your logic is atrocious and your rhetoric is sub-par. Apparently you're just tossing word-salad out there in the hopes of some kind of lame obfuscation. Kind of funny, in a pathetic sort of way.
Hedonist

No I said, "my point is not that I prove or disprove God's existence based on evidence."

Read it a couple of times.

The logic of seeing, is not thought about much anymore. It needs to be explained by analogy. In other words, an elephant at 20 miles away is like God is beyond the speed of light at the edge of the observable universe....(I could explain the concept). But I don't think that would give you any pleasure(smile).

Kind of funny is better than no funny....

I am slow in a pathetic kind of way.

And I don't like to drive fast either....Stop. Look and smell the roses.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#67157 Jan 18, 2013
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
No I said, "my point is not that I prove or disprove God's existence based on evidence."...
Convenient since there is no evidence for any deity's existence.
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
... God is beyond the speed of light at the edge of the observable universe.......
You just type out whatever nonsense pops into you head.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#67158 Jan 18, 2013
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
Can something be said to exist when there is no way of observing or measuring it?
If so, how can you really know that it's not just a part of your imagination?
Further, how can anyone else know except to accept your personal testimony. But then, if I accept your testimony as true, then how do I not accept everyone else's as also being true?
That would be utter madness which would leave one accepting claims of invisible fire-breathing dragons as readily as accepting any god claim.
No, I'll stick with what can be observed and/or measured.
Hedonist

You must understand that the enjoyment I have in smelling a rose, is not shared. Nor do some even like roses, because of the thorns.

I don't make anyone take what is freely given. Smell the Rose of Sharon.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#67159 Jan 18, 2013
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
Hedonist
You must understand that the enjoyment I have in smelling a rose, is not shared. Nor do some even like roses, because of the thorns.
I don't make anyone take what is freely given. Smell the Rose of Sharon.
And not a word on point in your entire reply. It is hard to debate with someone when their brain doesn't function well.

I certainly hope you are an exemplar of Poe's Law. If not you need serious help.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#67160 Jan 18, 2013
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
Convenient since there is no evidence for any deity's existence.
<quoted text>
You just type out whatever nonsense pops into you head.
Hedonist

Sorry. I thought you might be able to conceptualize.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#67161 Jan 18, 2013
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
And not a word on point in your entire reply. It is hard to debate with someone when their brain doesn't function well.
I certainly hope you are an exemplar of Poe's Law. If not you need serious help.
Hedonist

Sorry. I thought you took seriously took pleasure....

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#67162 Jan 18, 2013
Sorry I meant to say you seriously took pleasure....

You are getting me confused. I always thought hedonists were serious pleasure seekers....

You have no humor.

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