Atheists on the march in America

Aug 26, 2009 Full story: TurkishPress.com 70,983

When South Florida atheists held their first meeting, they were just five friends, having a beer at a bar.

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“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#66685 Jan 5, 2013
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
KK
Science has not failed. It is our trust in those promoters in science that makes one realize science has not delivered....
When I was younger, the promise was that in 10-15 years there would be "free" energy. Instead it costs 5 times what it used to....I am disappointed!
Likewise it is the promoters in religion that makes one think religion has not delievered.
When I was younger religion was respected, now it is ignored or spit upon....I am disappointed!
I am not disappointed in science, and religion. Rather, that they have been used, and in my lack of understanding, did not know it yet....
You are conflating corporations with scientists. You are also ignoring that the benefits from advancement far outweigh the few areas they have been unable to benefit ... yet.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#66686 Jan 5, 2013
Oh, and religion has produced very little benefit, a placebo only works for so long before you need the real thing.
postscriptt

Placitas, NM

#66687 Jan 5, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
"Violent TV, films and video games do increase aggression, an international panel of experts has said, as they warn parents to keep an eye on what their children are watching. "

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/articl...

War did not decline during the course of the 20th century. In fact, mankind experienced some of the most destructive wars of all times due to the invention of horrific weaponry.

http://www.nobelprize.org/educational/peace/c...

We are eating cheaper food with less and less nutrional content - thanks to the efforts of the scientifcally fueled manufactured food industry. These chemically altered counterfeit food stuffs have contributed to an epidemic of obseity and associated illnesses throughout the world.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/201...

Modern medicine kills more often than it cures. "Modern Medicine's treatments for disease are seldom effective, and they're often more dangerous than the diseases they're designed to treat. ninety per cent of Modern Medicine could disappear from the face of the earth--doctors, hospitals, drugs and equipment--and the effect on our health would be immediate and beneficial." - Dr. Robert S. Mendolsohn

What makes your sources more valid than mine, other than your belief that they are?

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#66688 Jan 5, 2013
postscriptt wrote:
<quoted text>
How do trips to the moon and computers "cure social illness"? Science, instead of promoting peace and brotherly love - has gone along with religion's warring proclivities by producing unconscionable weapons of mass destruction.
postcriptt

The virtue of religion is love, prayer, sacrifice. So it is rather the opposite, the vices of man that make war and destruction.

Likewise, the virtue of knowledge does not make war, it is the vice(greed and envy) within men that make war and destruction.

Thus one needs to purge oneself of these vices, and pursue virtue. And in the pursuit of virtue these must be active and not just in the heart and mind. We are not all islands, to isolate ourselves....
postscriptt

Placitas, NM

#66689 Jan 5, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
Oh, and religion has produced very little benefit, a placebo only works for so long before you need the real thing.
Not true. The placebo effect is measurable and quantifiable and often works better than the real thing with fewer side effects.
postscriptt

Placitas, NM

#66690 Jan 5, 2013
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
postcriptt
The virtue of religion is love, prayer, sacrifice. So it is rather the opposite, the vices of man that make war and destruction.
Likewise, the virtue of knowledge does not make war, it is the vice(greed and envy) within men that make war and destruction.
Thus one needs to purge oneself of these vices, and pursue virtue. And in the pursuit of virtue these must be active and not just in the heart and mind. We are not all islands, to isolate ourselves....
Ours is a path marked by wonders of our own making, but also with barriers, and baffles and MOB border guards (kittykoder types) whose main purpose in life is to protect the scientifically engineered social status quo.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#66691 Jan 5, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
You are conflating corporations with scientists. You are also ignoring that the benefits from advancement far outweigh the few areas they have been unable to benefit ... yet.
KittenKoder

Yes. I am conflating business with science. Just as the "military-industrial complex" exists. To deny that business and science are conflated is not rational. Likewise today more than ever political propaganda via "established news media" is probably 99% controlled, yet called "unbiased". Science is biased by business....

Here is the dilemma. "Modern" science has been around for about 150 years. And technology is depleting resources. If one projects out for 2000 years, there will be no science, as resources will have long vanished except for the "few", and these may be compromised(destroyed) as acts of envy by others.(Already the infrasture of the U.S. is decaying.) Maintenance is a higher cost than the research....

There is some benefit of modern science short term, but long term, this may not(probably will not) happen. So modern science will have been in vain for the common good of mankind.

Even at the present, one sees that wars are for resources, and the protection of their products. It will only grow worse as both are sought after and depleted.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#66692 Jan 5, 2013
postscriptt wrote:
<quoted text>
"Violent TV, films and video games do increase aggression, an international panel of experts has said, as they warn parents to keep an eye on what their children are watching. "
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/articl...
War did not decline during the course of the 20th century. In fact, mankind experienced some of the most destructive wars of all times due to the invention of horrific weaponry.
http://www.nobelprize.org/educational/peace/c...
We are eating cheaper food with less and less nutrional content - thanks to the efforts of the scientifcally fueled manufactured food industry. These chemically altered counterfeit food stuffs have contributed to an epidemic of obseity and associated illnesses throughout the world.
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/201...
Modern medicine kills more often than it cures. "Modern Medicine's treatments for disease are seldom effective, and they're often more dangerous than the diseases they're designed to treat. ninety per cent of Modern Medicine could disappear from the face of the earth--doctors, hospitals, drugs and equipment--and the effect on our health would be immediate and beneficial." - Dr. Robert S. Mendolsohn
What makes your sources more valid than mine, other than your belief that they are?
Your first one has never presented reliable data, the study is nothing more than conjecture. It's akin to saying "it's snowing outside so it must be snowing in Arizona as well."

Second one only supports my original assertion.

Third one is a doomsday fearmonger notion, based on the assertion that was paid for by "natural health" product corporations, it's nothing more than a snake oil ploy to scare people into buying the over priced, and possibly deadly, alternatives to super market foods.

Your final quote is much like your final link, based on no science, no facts, just used to try to scare gullible people into buying their junk instead.

I posted statistics that not only support my assertion, but also oppose your sources without even blinking. I mean, the FBI even states that crime is down in the US, and they have a vested interest in inflating those statistics.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#66693 Jan 5, 2013
I think Penn tells it best:


http://www.youtube.com/watch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Warning, they have experts for and against in their shows. You may not want to watch it if you don't like facts.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#66694 Jan 5, 2013
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
KittenKoder
Yes. I am conflating business with science. Just as the "military-industrial complex" exists. To deny that business and science are conflated is not rational. Likewise today more than ever political propaganda via "established news media" is probably 99% controlled, yet called "unbiased". Science is biased by business....
Here is the dilemma. "Modern" science has been around for about 150 years. And technology is depleting resources. If one projects out for 2000 years, there will be no science, as resources will have long vanished except for the "few", and these may be compromised(destroyed) as acts of envy by others.(Already the infrasture of the U.S. is decaying.) Maintenance is a higher cost than the research....
There is some benefit of modern science short term, but long term, this may not(probably will not) happen. So modern science will have been in vain for the common good of mankind.
Even at the present, one sees that wars are for resources, and the protection of their products. It will only grow worse as both are sought after and depleted.
2000 years ago lifespans were about 30, and that was with soap and water. There were wars across the globe. People starved so much that no one even noticed. You really want to go back to that?

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#66695 Jan 5, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, it can be. The majority of people believed the Earth was flat for a very long time, it's not flat. The majority is also wrong more often than not, so basing anything on the majority is folly.
KittenKoder

So if the majority is wrong more often than not, then democracy is wrong. Or rather, that democracy may begin as an ideal, but then degenerates into tyranny as a result of a malformed, or ill-informed public, governed by elitists and oligarchs.

You have just lent credence to my statement that science is conflated with science, and then tends toward a path of destruction.

It is counterintuitive that we think humanity is progressing because of science but is actually making humanity regress toward destruction.

Dependence on science has become the opiate of the people(with their malformed/ill-formed knowledge, and religion the remedy.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#66696 Jan 5, 2013
s/b science is conflated with business....

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#66697 Jan 5, 2013
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
KittenKoder
So if the majority is wrong more often than not, then democracy is wrong. Or rather, that democracy may begin as an ideal, but then degenerates into tyranny as a result of a malformed, or ill-informed public, governed by elitists and oligarchs.
....
That is why the US was never a democracy, democratic republic is the more accurate description, even our founding fathers knew that mob rule is a bad idea, and democracy is mob rule with a procedure.

Science cannot do anything, it is a tool, we use it to better our lives, and it's served us well so far. You are seriously swallowing the whole tackle box, as you are supporting every single pseudo-scientific scam and conspiracy nut on the planet with your assertions here.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#66698 Jan 5, 2013
postscriptt wrote:
<quoted text>
Ours is a path marked by wonders of our own making, but also with barriers, and baffles and MOB border guards (kittykoder types) whose main purpose in life is to protect the scientifically engineered social status quo.
postscriptt

We are part of our environment.

I think the problem of our idealism is that if it deviates in the slightest, then the whole structure falls.

Dependence on self discipline(or perhaps stubborness) that prevents curiosity to see the world from another person's perspective, also tempts one to change. Once known, one cannot go back....
postscriptt

Placitas, NM

#66699 Jan 5, 2013
The tight weave of a scientifically engineered society that makes a comfortable hammock for some just as surely makes a noose that strangles others. Loosening the stranglehold and throwing away the noose is the beginning of culture rather than the end of it. If the notion of "self "is a product of Darwinian evolution - of conveniences and gadgetries, then it is nothing less than a product of science's idea of civilization. By this logic, those who draw their sense of identity and integrity from within - from the self - rather than from technological notions, are basking in the glory of an advanced civilization. And by this logic, the group behavior is retrograde - primitive.

Science's civilization will go on. The pattern is set. It will go on and on until is sucks up the last resources of the planet that so graciously supports it - carrying its minions with it. At the very least, whether or not science's version of civilization brings about the death of the planet, it is clearly no longer required.
postscriptt

Placitas, NM

#66700 Jan 5, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Your first one has never presented reliable data, the study is nothing more than conjecture. It's akin to saying "it's snowing outside so it must be snowing in Arizona as well."
Second one only supports my original assertion.
Third one is a doomsday fearmonger notion, based on the assertion that was paid for by "natural health" product corporations, it's nothing more than a snake oil ploy to scare people into buying the over priced, and possibly deadly, alternatives to super market foods.
Your final quote is much like your final link, based on no science, no facts, just used to try to scare gullible people into buying their junk instead.
I posted statistics that not only support my assertion, but also oppose your sources without even blinking. I mean, the FBI even states that crime is down in the US, and they have a vested interest in inflating those statistics.
You quoted outdated statistics. In your rush to provide links, you didn't read them.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#66701 Jan 5, 2013
postscriptt wrote:
The distinction made was one of relevance, not popularity. If a majority of people believe something and have for centuries, it can't be attributed to imagination alone.
Why not?

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#66702 Jan 5, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
That is why the US was never a democracy, democratic republic is the more accurate description, even our founding fathers knew that mob rule is a bad idea, and democracy is mob rule with a procedure.
Science cannot do anything, it is a tool, we use it to better our lives, and it's served us well so far. You are seriously swallowing the whole tackle box, as you are supporting every single pseudo-scientific scam and conspiracy nut on the planet with your assertions here.
KittenKoder

No. Quite the opposite. I am quite the skeptic.

But you are right, the U.S. is a democratic republic....Although I don't understand what the "republic" really is outside of being synonymous with being "government".

But I am stumped on a quantum level phenomena which I was working on some years ago. The problem arose from trying to make a plastic barrier 1 in wide, which did not leak hydrogen.(It was for an aerospace project, so it had to be light in weight, but could withstand high pressure.) We did make the plastic and the process was tightly controlled.

The study was on the penetration(leakage) rate of hydrogen atoms across an amorphous plastic/solid.

The problem was/is that one could predict that 5 out of 100 cases would prevent penetration(to a "degree"), but not which 5, except by physical testing. Nor could one improve on the results....

Thus as a manufacturing process it was a failure (5 out of 100), and it cost the buyer a fortune, but as a physics phenomena it was and still is interesting to me.

The results showed either a failure caused by defect, or a success, with no variability(but always a well defined leagage rate). This meant that the hydrogen had to be "leaking/penetrating " on a "sub-atomic" level. Do you have any ideas? I suspect polymorphism, but across a 1 inch barrier does not seem possible....

So I do think I have enough "critical thinking" ability left to know when I am being taken on a ride....

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#66703 Jan 5, 2013
postscriptt wrote:
The tight weave of a scientifically engineered society that makes a comfortable hammock for some just as surely makes a noose that strangles others. Loosening the stranglehold and throwing away the noose is the beginning of culture rather than the end of it. If the notion of "self "is a product of Darwinian evolution - of conveniences and gadgetries, then it is nothing less than a product of science's idea of civilization. By this logic, those who draw their sense of identity and integrity from within - from the self - rather than from technological notions, are basking in the glory of an advanced civilization. And by this logic, the group behavior is retrograde - primitive.
Science's civilization will go on. The pattern is set. It will go on and on until is sucks up the last resources of the planet that so graciously supports it - carrying its minions with it. At the very least, whether or not science's version of civilization brings about the death of the planet, it is clearly no longer required.
postscriptt

An interesting view....

I think one sees the addiction to the newest toy quite evident in the society of today.

This new toy is what makes us primitive, I wouldn't call it childlike....

It is the new opiate of the people. But resources are going fast....

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#66704 Jan 5, 2013
postscriptt wrote:
<quoted text>
You quoted outdated statistics. In your rush to provide links, you didn't read them.
2011 is outdated? You should travel back to your time then.

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