Atheists on the march in America

Atheists on the march in America

There are 70629 comments on the TurkishPress.com story from Aug 26, 2009, titled Atheists on the march in America. In it, TurkishPress.com reports that:

When South Florida atheists held their first meeting, they were just five friends, having a beer at a bar.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at TurkishPress.com.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#65850 Dec 13, 2012
postscriptt wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll make it easy for you . What immutable laws of physics support the notions that dead matter comes to life,
Chemistry
or nothing produces something?
Quantum mechanics.
Word games. There is no difference between a lack of belief in diety and a disbelief in diety.
Yes, there is. Perhaps an analogy can be made. Do you believe in the existence of axions? Unless you have studied physics, you probably have no belief one way or the other. This is a lack of belief in axions. Even if you have studied physics, you may find the evidence inconclusive and still have a lack of belief in them. Or, it is possible that you have studied the evidence and that evidence has lead you to think that they really do not exist. That is an active disbelief in axions. Finally, you may consider the evidence to be such that you think their existence has been established, in which case you believe in axions.

Similarly, it is possible to think that the question of the existence of deities is not specific enough to be answered at all. It is possible that you find the issue irrelevant and so have neither a belief nor a disbelief in deities. It is possible that you have looked at the evidence and find it inconclusive and so lack a belief in deities. That is different than having looked at the evidence and coming to the conclusion that no deity exists.

lack of belief is very different than a disbelief.
And yet you are willing to believe that God does not exist without ANY evidence to support your contention.
Evidence is required to show existence, not non-existence. The default position in the total absence of evidence is lack of belief.
If you believed life has purpose, you wouldn't ask that question. A better project would be to examine the reasons why you think life has no purpose.
I believe my life has a purpose: to live, to love, to learn, to help. But this is a purpose *I* give to my life. I don't believe that life has a 'cosmic purpose'.
It suggests that OBEs cannot be studied using the scientific method. BTW - there is nothing supernatural about consciousness. German physicist, Max Planck, one of the founding fathers of Quantum Theory gives us a glimpse, "All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particles of an atom to vibration which holds the atom together. We must assume behind this force is the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter.“
<quoted text>
It says that when you tell an individual what's written on the paper you hide from them, they are bound to know. LOL! You crack me up! But seriously, the out-of-body experience is a phenomenon that has been known since ancient times. You would think science would take an interest in it but alas, it doesn't fit science's version of reality, so it is conveniently ignored.
Not at all. it is a very interesting psychological event. it is interesting to figure out what is happening in the brain that makes such experiences happen. Certainly oxygen deprivation is a key aspect, but the build up of ketones is also probably relevant. You can mimic OOBE by a variety of techniques, from drugs to electrical stimulation, to 'fooling' the brain into thinking it is somewhere other than where it is.

Like I said: an interesting phenomenon that tells us about how the brain and consciousness work, but certainly not a demonstration of a 'non-physical reality'.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#65851 Dec 13, 2012
wasp wrote:
I dont beleive in atheists
So your beliefs are wrong.
postscriptt

Albuquerque, NM

#65852 Dec 13, 2012
Lil Ticked wrote:
<quoted text>You should look up DMT and what happens when we dream or when the brain is shutting down when we die. That would explain a lot as it pertains to OBE, NDE, and the halucinations of the biblical prophets.
Yes. DMT: The Spirit Molecule. I read that book. Fascinating! I also read the Scole Experiment, a five year investigation into life after death.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#65853 Dec 13, 2012
Some Random Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks. I'll look into it. Do we at least agree that our nervous systems run on electricity? Our nerves, heartbeat and such? Electricity that wouldn't be found in a rock or a piece of metal; but would be found to some degree in any living thing?
Our nervous systems work by electro-chemical processes. The laws of chemistry involved in these processes are exactly the same as for the electrochemical processes in a battery. They are not specific to life. Nor, for that matter are they present in all life: bacteria, for example, do not have neurons. Nor do plants or fungi, all of which are alive. Furthermore, electrochemical gradients *are* found in natural non-living, rocks of certain compositions.
postscriptt

Albuquerque, NM

#65854 Dec 13, 2012
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
We measure and quantify the effects of gravity. We can use the laws we have found for gravity to predict the motions of stars, planets, etc. Our descriptions of gravity are testable in a large variety of ways and have been tested and have passed those tests.
What do you offer for this 'greater non-physical reality'?
I believe I brought this up already. What goes up doesn't necessarily come down. Space exploration probes do not return. The point being - the scientific method is not infallible. Not everything can be settled according to its canons.
postscriptt

Albuquerque, NM

#65855 Dec 13, 2012
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Chemistry
<quoted text>
Quantum mechanics.
<quoted text>
Yes, there is. Perhaps an analogy can be made. Do you believe in the existence of axions? Unless you have studied physics, you probably have no belief one way or the other. This is a lack of belief in axions. Even if you have studied physics, you may find the evidence inconclusive and still have a lack of belief in them. Or, it is possible that you have studied the evidence and that evidence has lead you to think that they really do not exist. That is an active disbelief in axions. Finally, you may consider the evidence to be such that you think their existence has been established, in which case you believe in axions.
Similarly, it is possible to think that the question of the existence of deities is not specific enough to be answered at all. It is possible that you find the issue irrelevant and so have neither a belief nor a disbelief in deities. It is possible that you have looked at the evidence and find it inconclusive and so lack a belief in deities. That is different than having looked at the evidence and coming to the conclusion that no deity exists.
lack of belief is very different than a disbelief.
<quoted text>
Evidence is required to show existence, not non-existence. The default position in the total absence of evidence is lack of belief.
<quoted text>
I believe my life has a purpose: to live, to love, to learn, to help. But this is a purpose *I* give to my life. I don't believe that life has a 'cosmic purpose'.
<quoted text>
Not at all. it is a very interesting psychological event. it is interesting to figure out what is happening in the brain that makes such experiences happen. Certainly oxygen deprivation is a key aspect, but the build up of ketones is also probably relevant. You can mimic OOBE by a variety of techniques, from drugs to electrical stimulation, to 'fooling' the brain into thinking it is somewhere other than where it is.
Like I said: an interesting phenomenon that tells us about how the brain and consciousness work, but certainly not a demonstration of a 'non-physical reality'.
Reality is what we take to be true.
What we take to be true is what we believe.
What we believe is based upon our perceptions.
What we perceive depends upon what we look for.
What we look for depends upon what we think.
What we think depends upon what we perceive.
What we perceive determines what we believe.
What we believe determines what we take to be true.
What we take to be true is our reality.

Be an atheist - that's your choice. Legitimize your decision with science - that's also your choice. But if you are truly interested in expanding your version of reality, the only way to start is by considering other points of view - other perceptions.
postscriptt

Albuquerque, NM

#65856 Dec 13, 2012
Media vita in morte sumus - in the midst of life, we are in death.

You are alive right now, sparkling with awareness among dead and dying cells. If this process did not occur, if cells were not replaced, you could not maintain your physical image. Not one portion of your physical body is the same as it was ten years ago. That body is dead and yet you don't feel dead.

Consciousness pulses on and off like a firefly. One minute you are consciously present, the next minute you are a space cadet. We've all been there, waiting at a stop light our mind focused somewhere else until the honk of horn brings us back to reality. Consciousness at that moment is unalive or "dead" to the linear way of thinking. The next instant it's alive again, focused in reality though we remain unaware of these subtle fluctuations for the most part. What we call death is the insertion of a longer duration of the natural pulsation of consciousness, a long pause focused in another dimension.

Most people want answers to the same questions regarding death. What will happen when I'm no longer "physically" alive? Will I still feel? Will I still be myself? Will the emotions that propelled me in life continue to do so after death? When I am dead will I remember those who are dear to me now? Yes, yes, yes and yes. All the things that make you uniquely YOU survive death, they are part of your package of consciousness.

The events immediately surrounding each death are as individual as the minds that create them. An actual physical death can range from a long lingering affair, to a coma, to a sudden cataclysmic event caterpaulting one into the next dimension completely unaware of his own demise, but your identity is never extinquished. Your consciousness (awareized energy) does not disappear like a puff of smoke. You do not disperse into particles and become part of a star. Your individual identify survives death intact. It is immortal. There is no place or time where your identity ends. While your physical body will not accompany you during a long pulsation of consciousness focused in another reality, you take everything you've learned, memories, feelings and knowledge with you. Again, these things are part of your package of consciousness.

Is there a heaven and hell? That depends on what you expect to encounter after death, and what you encounter depends on the beliefs you hold as true during physical life. If you believe you must be punished for your sins, you will encounter Hades-like conditions. If you believe you've earned a place at the right hand side of the biblical god, you will encounter heavenly conditions. If you believe there is no life after death, you will encounter a state of limbo, the most detrimental state of all for such a belief will delay your ability to learn how to operate in a new environment in which different laws apply. Those who understand thoroughly that reality is self-created will have least difficulty. Such illusions are only temporary. Consciousness must use its abilities, it strives to know. The boredom and stagnation of a heaven world will not for long content the ever seeking consciousness. One may remain in this heavenly illusion longer than those who find themselves immersed in the searing heat of their own created hell fires however. LOL!
Thinking

Cirencester, UK

#65857 Dec 13, 2012
Not always.

news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20007555-1.html
postscriptt wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe I brought this up already. What goes up doesn't necessarily come down. Space exploration probes do not return. The point being - the scientific method is not infallible. Not everything can be settled according to its canons.

Since: Mar 11

Scottsburg, IN

#65858 Dec 13, 2012
You guys remember when that other idiot from New Jersey was puking out all that out of body experience, NDE's, microwave ghosts and all sorts of other goofy conspiracy theories?

Lmfao! What an idiot!
postscriptt wrote:
<quoted text>
Reality is what we take to be true.
What we take to be true is what we believe.
What we believe is based upon our perceptions.
What we perceive depends upon what we look for.
What we look for depends upon what we think.
What we think depends upon what we perceive.
What we perceive determines what we believe.
What we believe determines what we take to be true.
What we take to be true is our reality.
Be an atheist - that's your choice. Legitimize your decision with science - that's also your choice. But if you are truly interested in expanding your version of reality, the only way to start is by considering other points of view - other perceptions.
postscriptt

Albuquerque, NM

#65859 Dec 13, 2012
Givemeliberty wrote:
You guys remember when that other idiot from New Jersey was puking out all that out of body experience, NDE's, microwave ghosts and all sorts of other goofy conspiracy theories?
Lmfao! What an idiot!
<quoted text>
You're the reason man has a middle finger.
Thinking

Cirencester, UK

#65860 Dec 13, 2012
So you believe, like me, that the middle finger wasn't down to your god, then.
postscriptt wrote:
<quoted text>
You're the reason man has a middle finger.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#65861 Dec 13, 2012
postscriptt wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe I brought this up already. What goes up doesn't necessarily come down. Space exploration probes do not return. The point being - the scientific method is not infallible. Not everything can be settled according to its canons.
Huh? Are you thinking that the non-return somehow violates the law of gravity? In fact, we 8use* the law of gravity deduced via science to know where and how to send the probes where we want.
Thinking

Cirencester, UK

#65862 Dec 13, 2012
And this is the mathematician that first worked out how to do gravity assist in 1961.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Minovitch

To create the tool to plan the Voyager courses was brilliance personified.
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Huh? Are you thinking that the non-return somehow violates the law of gravity? In fact, we 8use* the law of gravity deduced via science to know where and how to send the probes where we want.

Since: Mar 11

Scottsburg, IN

#65863 Dec 13, 2012
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahah a! I thought that was you! Seen any old lady ghosts around your microwave lately?

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahah a!
postscriptt wrote:
<quoted text>
You're the reason man has a middle finger.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#65864 Dec 13, 2012
postscriptt wrote:
<quoted text>
Reality is what we take to be true.
What we take to be true is what we believe.
What we believe is based upon our perceptions.
What we perceive depends upon what we look for.
What we look for depends upon what we think.
What we think depends upon what we perceive.
What we perceive determines what we believe.
What we believe determines what we take to be true.
What we take to be true is our reality.
Essentially all of these statements are fundamentally wrong. How do I know? We can be surprised. In fact, there have been many times in the history of science qwhere the prevailing view was that an experiment would go one way and it, in fact, went the other. In fact, this is exactly how science is done: we actually look at the real world and let that determine what we regard as true or false. And often the real world simply doesn't agree with our intuitions.
Be an atheist - that's your choice. Legitimize your decision with science - that's also your choice. But if you are truly interested in expanding your version of reality, the only way to start is by considering other points of view - other perceptions.
I am interested in the truth. If that means I should 'expand my version of reality, then I will'. But that is done when the *evidence* says so, not when I get warm fuzzies from an idea.

It may surprise you that at one time I had 6 different 'systems of reality' that I looked at everything through. They ranged from solipsism to an intricate one where there were seven layers of spiritual reality. Eventually I realized that without basing my system on evidence, it was all essentiually mental masturbation. Maybe, eventually, you will realize that also.
postscriptt

Albuquerque, NM

#65865 Dec 13, 2012
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Essentially all of these statements are fundamentally wrong. How do I know? We can be surprised. In fact, there have been many times in the history of science qwhere the prevailing view was that an experiment would go one way and it, in fact, went the other. In fact, this is exactly how science is done: we actually look at the real world and let that determine what we regard as true or false. And often the real world simply doesn't agree with our intuitions.
<quoted text>
I am interested in the truth. If that means I should 'expand my version of reality, then I will'. But that is done when the *evidence* says so, not when I get warm fuzzies from an idea.
It may surprise you that at one time I had 6 different 'systems of reality' that I looked at everything through. They ranged from solipsism to an intricate one where there were seven layers of spiritual reality. Eventually I realized that without basing my system on evidence, it was all essentiually mental masturbation. Maybe, eventually, you will realize that also.
Perhaps you will realize that the real world is an illusion. A camouflage - a manifestation of the greater reality within it. The physical senses are attuned to perceive only the illusion. To sense the greater reality within requires a different sort of attention, and more delicate manipulations than the physical senses provide.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#65866 Dec 13, 2012
postscriptt wrote:
Perhaps you will realize that the real world is an illusion. A camouflage - a manifestation of the greater reality within it.
What evidence do you have for a "greater reality"?

Since: Mar 11

Scottsburg, IN

#65867 Dec 13, 2012
The old last microwave ghost told him :))
Drew Smith wrote:
<quoted text>
What evidence do you have for a "greater reality"?
postscriptt

Albuquerque, NM

#65868 Dec 13, 2012
Drew Smith wrote:
<quoted text>
What evidence do you have for a "greater reality"?
The evidence you expect must be experienced.

You are like one of many people living in New York city for years who never take a tour of the Empire State Building. YOu have a physical address, but you ignore what is essentially a strange and miraculous psychic and psychological structure within you own system of reality. Take the tour.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#65869 Dec 13, 2012
postscriptt wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps you will realize that the real world is an illusion. A camouflage - a manifestation of the greater reality within it. The physical senses are attuned to perceive only the illusion. To sense the greater reality within requires a different sort of attention, and more delicate manipulations than the physical senses provide.
Yes, I am familiar with that viewpoint also. I even saw it as plausible for a while. Then I realized I was just playing with myself.

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