Atheists on the march in America

Aug 26, 2009 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: TurkishPress.com

When South Florida atheists held their first meeting, they were just five friends, having a beer at a bar.

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“talk to the kitteh”

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#65277
Nov 27, 2012
 
postscript wrote:
<quoted text>
Polygraphs record responses. That's all you need regarding plants, not whether they are telling the truth, as in the case of humans. LOL!
True, what would a plant know of the human concept of true and false? They would likely come to understand "right and wrong" first, why else do they develop thorns and toxins. "Right" is surviving and "wrong" would be not surviving.

Almost every living thing understands the value of deception in terms of survival.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

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#65278
Nov 27, 2012
 

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nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>True, what would a plant know of the human concept of true and false? They would likely come to understand "right and wrong" first, why else do they develop thorns and toxins. "Right" is surviving and "wrong" would be not surviving.
Almost every living thing understands the value of deception in terms of survival.
So, now you're asserting that thing evolve because they "want" to.
postscript

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#65279
Nov 27, 2012
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, it's called instinct, survival instinct to be precise. The plant feels the human, like all animals, to be a threat, therefore all the cells in the plant warn each other of the threat in preparation. Now you're into basic botany and you still fail to scrutinize what you read at all.
As for the pain reaction, all cells give off a pain reaction, even single cells, but those are usually dead before you can measure it, so you measure those surrounding it. These chemically induced and transmitted messages are not new, we've known of them for a long time, they are the same concept that the Venus flytrap uses to detect when pray has entered it's "trap," just a different application and purpose. This does not require awareness of the self, at all.
I see. And where are you getting your information? The Jerry Springer Institute of Higher Learning? All it takes is a little thought to figure this out. The perception of pain or harm requires awareness or "consciousness" otherwise there is no reason for an organism or animal to respond instinctually. I haven't seen an aninmal yet respond as if it were injured when he knows it isn't.
postscript

Santa Fe, NM

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#65280
Nov 27, 2012
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Polygraphs, the "lie detector" machines work on several factors that plants do not exhibit. Plants don't have a pulse, they lack the heart. They do not breath with lungs. They do not produce heat. They have no muscular system either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygraph
I realize that plants are not fuzzy and cute, and don't resemble humans, but that doesn't mean they do not possess consciousness or that a polygraph machine cannot pick up a response when attached to a plant.

“I Am No One Else”

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#65281
Nov 27, 2012
 

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postscript wrote:
<quoted text>
I see. And where are you getting your information? The Jerry Springer Institute of Higher Learning? All it takes is a little thought to figure this out. The perception of pain or harm requires awareness or "consciousness" otherwise there is no reason for an organism or animal to respond instinctually. I haven't seen an aninmal yet respond as if it were injured when he knows it isn't.
Wow, you just can't segregate your mythology from reality at all. Pain is a message the body sends, it requires nothing more than living cells working as a group, which is what all larger organism are. Why would a "consciousness" or "awareness" be needed for an organism to try to survive when all the messages that get transmitted are so easy to understand as being nothing more than reflexive reactions of the colony. Pain is actually a message to the rest of the colonies that that locale is damaged, in need of repair, and must be protected as well. It's not complicated, you just want to make it complicated.

“I Am No One Else”

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#65282
Nov 27, 2012
 

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postscript wrote:
<quoted text>
I realize that plants are not fuzzy and cute, and don't resemble humans, but that doesn't mean they do not possess consciousness or that a polygraph machine cannot pick up a response when attached to a plant.
Look at how the machine works again, you clearly didn't read that part.

“talk to the kitteh”

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#65284
Nov 27, 2012
 
KittenKoder wrote:
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So, you cannot provide evidence to back up your "life force" bull. As I thought.
Let me know when you have created life from nonliving materials.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

“talk to the kitteh”

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#65285
Nov 27, 2012
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
So, now you're asserting that thing evolve because they "want" to.
I think that anything is possible.

http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info%3Ado...

There are people who are attempting to manipulate the human mind into evolving in an unnatural way.

“talk to the kitteh”

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#65286
Nov 27, 2012
 

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KittenKoder wrote:
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So, you cannot provide evidence to back up your "life force" bull. As I thought.
Please buy some man panties. Yer grossin' us out!

“Think&Care”

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#65287
Nov 27, 2012
 
KittenKoder wrote:
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Actually, many other animals do demonstrate self-consciousness, the recognition of self, all the time. Apes, monkeys, even birds. They tend to be aware of themselves by adulthood, where humans are aware by the toddler ages. I forgot the name of the test they used, but it involves mirrors and made for an interesting documentary on the subject.
The dot test. You put a red dot on their forehead and see if they attempt to touch it on themselves. it shows they know that the object in the mirror is them.

“I Am No One Else”

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#65288
Nov 27, 2012
 

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nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>I think that anything is possible.
http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info%3Ado...
There are people who are attempting to manipulate the human mind into evolving in an unnatural way.
Look, if you have something nice to say it's not worth saying, stick to your vitriol until you learn science. Thank you.

“Think&Care”

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#65289
Nov 27, 2012
 
postscript wrote:
<quoted text>
Cleve Backster, a former CIA interregation specialist connected polygraph sensors to plants and discovered that they reacted to harm (cutting their leaves) and even to harmful thoughts of humans in proximity to them. If they were not "aware", they would not react. What makes them aware? Consciousness.
Incorrect assumption. Plants react to harm by attempting to heal themselves. That is one of the many functions of living things. That does not imply 'awareness', but simply the ability to respond to events. No consciousness required; only 'reflexes' of a sort.
The singing plants of Damanhur:
Since 1975 researchers at Damanhur have been experimenting with plants, measuring the reactivity of plants to their environment and their capacity to learn and communicate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Plants are alive. Higher plants have sophisticated methods of defense and the ability to heal and to respond to the chemical signals of other plants.

Once again, that is not the same as consciousness. There is no more self-awareness here than there is in the mammalian immune system.

“Think&Care”

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#65290
Nov 27, 2012
 
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>Let me know when you have created life from nonliving materials.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
ALL life is made from non-living chemicals. None of the water in your body is alive. None of the atoms in your body is alive. And yet you, a living thing, are made from these non-living things.

No, we do not have the technology to arrange non-living things on our own and make a living thing. But we can look at living things and understand that their fundamental components are not alive. Life is a matter of how the non-living matter is arranged and how it interacts and not of anything added on to the atoms.

“Think&Care”

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#65291
Nov 27, 2012
 

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nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>I think that anything is possible.
http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info%3Ado...
There are people who are attempting to manipulate the human mind into evolving in an unnatural way.
How did you get *that* conclusion from that article? it was talking about how certain bacterial cells 'commit suicide' under viral attack and how some viruses managed to circumvent that process.

“I Am No One Else”

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#65292
Nov 27, 2012
 
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
The dot test. You put a red dot on their forehead and see if they attempt to touch it on themselves. it shows they know that the object in the mirror is them.
That's the one, thank you. Saw it in a lecture once and forgot what the test was completely.
Thinking

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#65293
Nov 27, 2012
 

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Why do nearly half of fertilised eggs die through no fault of their originators?

Why is your god aborting nearly half of these "life forces" (as you term them)?
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text> Our life force is carried from conception onward, derived from the combination of a live sperm and a live egg. Life comes from life.
postscript

Santa Fe, NM

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#65294
Nov 27, 2012
 
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Incorrect assumption. Plants react to harm by attempting to heal themselves. That is one of the many functions of living things. That does not imply 'awareness', but simply the ability to respond to events. No consciousness required; only 'reflexes' of a sort.
<quoted text>
Plants are alive. Higher plants have sophisticated methods of defense and the ability to heal and to respond to the chemical signals of other plants.
Once again, that is not the same as consciousness. There is no more self-awareness here than there is in the mammalian immune system.
You have done nothing but repeat yourself in a grim determination to prove something you don't understand.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

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#65295
Nov 27, 2012
 

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nanoanomaly wrote:
Our life force is carried from conception onward, derived from the combination of a live sperm and a live egg.
There is no "life force". There are simply ongoing chemical reactions that, taken as a complex system, constitute "life".
nanoanomaly wrote:
Life comes from life.
And from non-life. Otherwise, the first living thing wouldn't have existed.

“There is no such thing”

Since: May 08

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#65296
Nov 27, 2012
 
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>Who needs a brain to be aware of existence?
http://www.damninteresting.com/amoebic-morali...
Don't forget plants. They are finding evidence that plants are aware. But amoebic morality is damn interesting.
:)

“talk to the kitteh”

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#65297
Nov 27, 2012
 
Thinking wrote:
Why do nearly half of fertilised eggs die through no fault of their originators?
Why is your god aborting nearly half of these "life forces" (as you term them)?
<quoted text>
There is no supernatural being deciding which baby doesn't make it to term. Shyt just happens.

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