Atheists on the march in America

Atheists on the march in America

There are 70638 comments on the TurkishPress.com story from Aug 26, 2009, titled Atheists on the march in America. In it, TurkishPress.com reports that:

When South Florida atheists held their first meeting, they were just five friends, having a beer at a bar.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at TurkishPress.com.

nina

Ottawa, Canada

#2551 Sep 9, 2009
Charlie wrote:
<quoted text>
...Are you familiar with the story of the six blind men and the elephant? Same elephant, six different versions....
the moral of that tale is to not be lazy and just touch the bit in front of you

if each walked around the elephant and touched more parts

or if they communicated better to peice their experience together

they would have developed a more accurate idea of what the elephant was
Charlie

Papeete, French Polynesia

#2552 Sep 9, 2009
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
So it is logical to believe in pixies (and by pixies I mean pixies, you know kinda like faeries). After all, you cannot prove that they exist and you cannot prove that they don't exist.
If there is no rational, logical reason to believe that there are faeries at the bottom of your garden well, then there is no reason to believe that there are invisible magical sky pixies either.
Where is the logic problem in this line of reasoning?
The credibility of the Bible is supported by historical and archeological evidence. The credibility in the Biblical God is arrived at by an examination of the stories and records of the prophets, by the prophetic record and their meaning and symbolism, by the life of Jesus and the remarkable claims about him, the eyewitness testimony and the inexplicable events surrounding him.

All these things may be doubted and debated, but nonetheless, they are several levels above any hypothesis about pixies.

That's the difference.
Charlie

Papeete, French Polynesia

#2553 Sep 9, 2009
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
An Inuit hunter asked the local missionary priest: "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?"
"No," said the priest, "not if you did not know."
"Then why," asked the Inuit earnestly, "did you tell me?" ~Annie Dillard, Pilgrim at Tinker Creek
The priest was wrong. That is why there is the resurrection.
Charlie

Papeete, French Polynesia

#2554 Sep 9, 2009
Hedonist wrote:
In reply to Melevy's comment "No, you can't, because "god" only exists in man's imagination" you wrote:
<quoted text>
This is a weak attempt at the ontological argument. As I said previously, this argument has already been proven false.
You cannot really imagine a "perfect being". You might think you can, but when you actually spend some brain cycles considering it, you really can't.
The idea of an omnipotent being is paradoxically impossible. This has already been discussed.
The idea of an omniscient being is equally paradoxically impossible. An all-knowing entity would know what I am going to type right now, and would have known it since he (she, it) put that apple in front of Eve. This leaves no room for free will. And, if you argue that he can suspend his omniscience, then he can no longer be said to be all knowing. Again, you cannot really imagine this property.
Omni-beneviolence is just as paradoxical and flies in the face of the existence of "hell".
So it is impossible to really imagine an all-perfect being.
Nice strawman!

I admit that there is a commonality with the ontological argument, but I was not arguing "a perfect being", unless you'd care to accept this as merely an abstraction.

I do not know whether God is omnipotent, omniscient, or omnibenevolent. I don't know whether He needs to be those things in order to be God. All one needs to be God is to be the supreme being before all other beings, if just by definition.

Each atheist in Hell will be God, because each one will have is own private, lonely Hell where he will be the only one there; thus, the supreme being. Well, this is what atheists want, isn't it? To be like God? Or to be God?
Charlie

Papeete, French Polynesia

#2555 Sep 9, 2009
nina wrote:
<quoted text>
the moral of that tale is to not be lazy and just touch the bit in front of you
if each walked around the elephant and touched more parts
or if they communicated better to peice their experience together
they would have developed a more accurate idea of what the elephant was
But what of the atheist who denies the elephant even exists? He won't make even the effort to reach out to touch it.
nina

Ottawa, Canada

#2556 Sep 9, 2009
Charlie wrote:
<quoted text>
The credibility of the Bible is supported by historical and archeological evidence....
there is no historical or archeological evidence that supports any of the buybull claims

other than cities and some of the people existed

but even modern movies and novels are set in real places and sometimes refer to real people
Charlie

Papeete, French Polynesia

#2557 Sep 9, 2009
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
SCOTUS, Roe v. Wade, Mr. Justice Blackmun for the majority opinion - "We need not resolve the difficult question of when life begins. When those trained in the respective disciplines of medicine, philosophy, and theology are unable to arrive at any consensus, the judiciary, at this point in the development of man's knowledge, is not in a position to speculate as to the answer.”
So, even though "those trained in the respective disciplines of medicine, philosophy, and theology are unable to arrive at any consensus" you feel you are the ultimate authority on the subject and we should all defer to you.
As Jefferson said “Is a priest to be our inquisitor, or shall a layman, simple as ourselves, set up his reason as the rule for what we are to read, and what we must believe?”
Note that I am NOT pro-abortion, but what gives you the right to decide for everyone?
Why couldn't the court have afforded the benefit of the doubt, in that case, to the position that life begins at conception?

Certainly, a careful and conservative approach like this could not have put at risk any moral principle.
Charlie

Papeete, French Polynesia

#2558 Sep 9, 2009
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
There IS NO logical answer. That's why omnipotence is impossible.
Of course! That stands to reason. One cannot pose an illogical, paradoxical question, and expect a logical, non-paradoxical answer.

God is omnipotent where it concerns the possible! Happy now?

And even if He were not omnipotent, this would not make Him any less God!

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#2559 Sep 9, 2009
Atticus Tiberius Finch wrote:
<quoted text>
You are not trying to imply that without christianity that there would be no literature, arts, philiosphy, astronomy or science in the world?
You don't know John of Treestump very well yet. He'll gladly tell you that without Jesus, we'd be in Plato's cave without Plato.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#2560 Sep 9, 2009
Charlie wrote:
<quoted text>
You've missed the point……Tyrants, despots and extremists set their own moral code just like atheists would encourage all of us to do.
Of course, no moral code would hinder from them from doing this, anyway, but the atheist position gives moral legitimacy to this. This is, also, the attitude of hardened criminals where it concerns morality.
Obviously, such thoughts give you comfort and validation, so there's no stopping you from having or proclaiming them.

Isn't life nice enough in Tahiti without the Christian deception? Aren't coconut palms and topless women in grass skirts enough heaven for you? As I told you. I've been their. Why would you pollute that world with Christianity. I'll bet that you start scowling at and preaching to the women about sex like you do to us for being so natural.

“ad maiora nati sumus ”

Since: Sep 09

Justice Scalia is an Oxymoron

#2561 Sep 9, 2009
Charlie wrote:
<quoted text>
You've missed the point……Tyrants, despots and extremists set their own moral code just like atheists would encourage all of us to do.
Of course, no moral code would hinder from them from doing this, anyway, but the atheist position gives moral legitimacy to this. This is, also, the attitude of hardened criminals where it concerns morality.
The above position is a typical position by those who believed that atheists and non-believers can't possibly be moral since according to this position only those who are religious have morals.
However, this position is untenable by the mere fact that in ancient Greece, philosophers like Socrates, Plato and Artistole grappled with questions of morality and ethnics hundreds of years before the Christian Era. Moreover, the Spanish Inquisition, Salem Witch trials were conducted by men of morals derived from the christian background. Furthermore, the Holocaust was done in a "christian" nation(Germany) where the christian sheep allowed Jews to be slaughtered.
Where were your moral christian men because Hitler was able to convince his fellow Christian countrymen that the Jews were responsible for the defeat of Germany in WWI? If Germany had more atheists and Freethinkers during the rise of Hitler then it would have been likely that the Holocaust would not have occurred.

Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction” Blaise Paschal

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#2562 Sep 9, 2009
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Excellent question, Charlie. Your sense of discernment is unrivaled. Yes, I'm a strong supporter of Obama and the Democrats. I see a great future there.
Charlie wrote:
LOL! You are such a tangled web of contradictions! Are you the same person here, or is this one of your multiple personalities? First you say how much of a disappointment Obama is and you rail against the Democrat/Republican power structure, and now you are in bed with Obama and the Democrats!
Very strange!


With all due respect, Charlie, you're just not a very smart man. Talking with you is a lot of smoke and no light.

You are the only person on this thread who is confused.

And I notice that it turns out you knew what I was saying after all, and that therefore all those comments about loving Obama and the Democrats were insincere, as the above may be.

But this time I choose to think of you as stupid rather than a deliberate causer of chaos. My choice when you offer it to me.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#2563 Sep 9, 2009
yawn the Stump wrote:
Just thought it would be fun to remind the nothinkers they have offered nothing, believe in nothing, and cannot explain their nothing by a repeatable and observable standard. Continue to chase your tails aftet a God you don't believe in. Atheists are a drop in the bucket because nothing is a hard sell.

[QUOTE who="Path"]Ah~ john... back to this retarded nonsense.
Hey, Stump! Yeah, you. LOL.

Maybe next time that approach will finally bear fruit. How can you be so socially awkward and oblivious to how you ppear. Nobody has kept it a secret from you. The verdict is unanimous:

HEY!!! Retard! Get a friggin' clue, will you? Nobody wants to see a human being debase himself like this. You're taking a horrible beating in this thread. You are disrespected across the board here. Hey clueless: read what people write to you.

You are so lame it's embarrassing.
NoGod Needed

Liberty, ME

#2564 Sep 9, 2009
Johnboy109 wrote:
I'm in agreement with Paul Harvey. Aetheists deserve their own national holiday. April Fools Day.
Maybe we should steel one of the Christian holidays seeing the Christians stole most of their holidays from the Pagans?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#2565 Sep 9, 2009
Charlie wrote:
Consensus, for all practical purposes, does establish reality. It does not establish existence.
Beauty, Charlie, beauty.

Show us a little insight and tell me what might be problematic about that comment.
Charlie

Papeete, French Polynesia

#2566 Sep 9, 2009
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Sorry, Charlie. The rest of that was from outer space - way off the beaten track. Keep it simple: restrict religion(s) from the public sector. Individuals and the private sector may so what they like that is legal, such as Christmas displays or posting the Ten Commandments. If Sears or Domino's wants to post the Ten Commandments on their walls or boxes, go for it.
Does that sound like North Korea, or trying to unduly suppressing your freedom to practice your religion privately? Keep Christianity out of the government and government sponsored programs such as the public school system, and you can have as much of it as you like it in your minds, your homes, your privately owned businesses, and your churches. If that's not enough, and it's never been enough, then we'll have to wrestle it out.
I notice that when you don't have an argument you just run away. But, when you're on the losing end, that's a rational thing to do.

But I'll pose the problem once again for the benefit of other readers: How can one realistically keep the religious worldview out of the public sector without resorting to non-democratic means? Because, one is faced with the problem of classification. Would you advocate that ALL philosophical worldviews be kept out as well? How can a government or society function if no worldview is permitted? No declaration of the rights of man, no glorification of democracy and the American way, no instruction of moral values, humanistic or otherwise, etc., etc. None of this could be taught in schools.

I think not! That would NOT be your solution. Your solution would be to discriminate and single out for exclusion only those worldviews that posit the existence of a God, while freely permitting all others that do not, effectively giving the atheistic worldview the advantage here. And that translates in the real world to state promotion of atheism. And you certainly would find this a good thing.

Religion, similar to other philosophical systems, is a worldview. And societies and governments are established and shaped by worldviews. Excluding certain worldviews to the benefit of other worldviews can only be accomplished by non-democratic means and the imposition of a state approved worldview. Sorry, that is just the way it is.

The nuisance of Christianity as a worldview having its influence and effect on government is a far lesser evil even for atheists than the North Korean alternative.
ScienceRules

Plainfield, VT

#2567 Sep 9, 2009
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Beauty, Charlie, beauty.
Show us a little insight and tell me what might be problematic about that comment.
Notice how Charlie has dropped all pretense of intellectual debate and is now 'witnessing' furiously and quote mining from the Fundie Playbook?
NoGod Needed

Liberty, ME

#2568 Sep 9, 2009
OK time for a bible story,,,,,,

Once upon a time.....There was a talking snake, and even though God knew the future he allowed this talking snake to temp the first human couple knowing they would disobey.

Then God broke his own law by making the unborn children pay for the sins of a the father. But then God thought for a second and said, I know, I will give them another chance, God said,, I will come down to earth, f*** my own mother to conceive myself, and then commit suicide,(because he knew the future) this surely will give people a chance to be forgiven for the sins caused by that god damn talking snake.

So after this, God resurrected himself from the suicide he knew was going to happen and stated that he loves you,all of you, but if you don't follow him, he will kill you.

Ok kids, isn't that a nice story?

Next week we will talk about God killing babies in the great flood and where God put those pesky dinosaurs!
ScienceRules

Plainfield, VT

#2569 Sep 9, 2009
NoGod Needed wrote:
OK time for a bible story,,,,,,
Once upon a time.....There was a talking snake, and even though God knew the future he allowed this talking snake to temp the first human couple knowing they would disobey.
Then God broke his own law by making the unborn children pay for the sins of a the father. But then God thought for a second and said, I know, I will give them another chance, God said,, I will come down to earth, f*** my own mother to conceive myself, and then commit suicide,(because he knew the future) this surely will give people a chance to be forgiven for the sins caused by that god damn talking snake.
So after this, God resurrected himself from the suicide he knew was going to happen and stated that he loves you,all of you, but if you don't follow him, he will kill you.
Ok kids, isn't that a nice story?
Next week we will talk about God killing babies in the great flood and where God put those pesky dinosaurs!
So you are saying that god is really Charles Manson?
Rose

North Hollywood, CA

#2570 Sep 9, 2009
NoGod Needed wrote:
OK time for a bible story,,,,,,
Once upon a time.....There was a talking snake, and even though God knew the future he allowed this talking snake to temp the first human couple knowing they would disobey.
Then God broke his own law by making the unborn children pay for the sins of a the father. But then God thought for a second and said, I know, I will give them another chance, God said,, I will come down to earth, f*** my own mother to conceive myself, and then commit suicide,(because he knew the future) this surely will give people a chance to be forgiven for the sins caused by that god damn talking snake.
So after this, God resurrected himself from the suicide he knew was going to happen and stated that he loves you,all of you, but if you don't follow him, he will kill you.
Ok kids, isn't that a nice story?
Next week we will talk about God killing babies in the great flood and where God put those pesky dinosaurs!
In the Garden of Eden, God lied, and the snake told the truth. God told Adam he would die the day he ate the fruit, and the snake told Eve she would not. Adam did not die the day he ate the fruit. Adam and Eve lived for hundreds of years after eating the fruit.

Eve was made from Adam's rib. So, Eve had the same DNA Adam did. Thus, Eve was a man. Looks like God did make Adam and Steve.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Atheism Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Atheism requires as much faith as religion? (Jul '09) 10 min Richard 253,282
Science Disproves Evolution (Aug '12) 12 min Richard 3,061
News Why Do Atheists Ridicule Christianity? (May '11) 19 min Richard 8,025
News "Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really T... (Jan '12) 26 min Brian_G 27,246
News Atheists Aren't the Problem, Christian Intolera... (Oct '14) 29 min 4 leaf clover 18,764
News Atheism, for Good Reason, Fears Questions (Jun '09) 55 min GTID62 5,889
Morality is Subjective Without God 4 hr Eagle 12 48
More from around the web