Atheists on the march in America

Atheists on the march in America

There are 70629 comments on the TurkishPress.com story from Aug 26, 2009, titled Atheists on the march in America. In it, TurkishPress.com reports that:

When South Florida atheists held their first meeting, they were just five friends, having a beer at a bar.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at TurkishPress.com.

“Leave That Thing Alone!”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#2531 Sep 9, 2009
john wrote:
Those Christians couldn't possibly have a valid point now could they Terry?
I've never said that fundamental christains couldn't possibly have a valid point of view, although I haven't seen many in these forums. A 'point of view' that is based on a "religious belief" doesn't carry much if any weight in my mind because, IMO, the basis for that 'point of view' lacks a factual foundation.
john wrote:
Without the contributions Christians have made to the world you would be scratching your words on a cave wall.
<quoted text>
I would never say that some Christians haven't contributed to our advancement as a people. That said, It's more likely that because of the Christians' we, as a people, aren't as advanced as we could be. People that had ideas that contradicted church doctrine were routinely labeled as heretics and either killed or jailed or worse. Think of where we might be now if those ideas were accepted instead of swept under the rug to protect the church. How many revolutionary ideas were never discussed publicly because of the fear of going against the church and its doctrine?
Charlie

Papetoai, French Polynesia

#2532 Sep 9, 2009
Path wrote:
<quoted text>There is a vast difference between the private market, private homes, public squares, and government run programs.
When you learn the difference you will understand that we mean you and yours no harm. We just don't want your beliefs forced on us and ours.
Your allusions to N Korea are ridiculous.
All we're saying is keep it out of government run schools and programs. You can have all the billboards and television commercials you want, but we'd appreciate if you shut up about the commercials and ads you don't want... you know... freedom and all that...
What you don't understand is that in a free and democratic society people have the right to petition the government. This means they even have the right to petition the government to promote or institute their particular values, even if these are religiously based, such that these are reflected in public policy.

This was done where it concerned marriage, for instance, which is why monogamy between a man and a woman was the only recognized union throughout the US at one time and not polygamy or other types of sexual unions.

The only way to stop that process is to institutionalize the North Korean of Soviet model where only one, state-approved worldview decided by an elite would be permitted.

The alternatives for you is to suffer the imposition of the majority will in a free, democratic process, or the North Korean/Soviet model.

“www.benehrmann.c om”

Since: Nov 08

White Suburbia, CA

#2533 Sep 9, 2009
ScienceRules wrote:
<quoted text>
You have it backwards. It is the christians who WANT to return to scratching words on the cave wall. You know, the good ole days before us heathens kicked god out of the cave..........
Christians developed catacombs under Rome in the 4th century. Ironically, Christians today continue the trend of stupidity by banning certain books from libraries because of scientific content (ie. Sarah Palin).

“Leave That Thing Alone!”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#2534 Sep 9, 2009
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
That's what I thought, too. But I've seen some of Bill's other posts, so I knew better. I don't what he was saying there.
Statism? I'm liberal, but lean more toward libertarianism than socialism or statism, and as far as I can tell, there was indication that I support anything like that, so I don't know where his comment came from.
It's easy to make erroneous assumptions when conversing this way since you don't get to ask a simple question or two very easily before replying. Plus, so many people are stereotypes that assumptions will invalid only a minority of the times.
Have Charlie, keltec, Stump (eunuch john), or any of the fallen faithful (nmweatherman, Alex) ever posted anything surprising?
Yes, I can say that I HAVE seen some surprising posts from the resident nut-jobs. They are few and very far between, but every so often there is a glimmer of rationality the peeks through. Even DA made a post a while ago that made me reply with a "Well said".
Divine Alien wrote:
<quoted text>
Terry, I know you are really comfortable without God. Life without God is really making full use of your time here on earth.
But I really don't think his post reflected what he intended to say.:)

“ad maiora nati sumus ”

Since: Sep 09

Justice Scalia is an Oxymoron

#2535 Sep 9, 2009
john wrote:
Those Christians couldn't possibly have a valid point now could they Terry? Without the contributions Christians have made to the world you would be scratching your words on a cave wall.
<quoted text>
You are not trying to imply that without christianity that there would be no literature, arts, philiosphy, astronomy or science in the world?
Charlie

Papeete, French Polynesia

#2536 Sep 9, 2009
Path wrote:
<quoted text>Tyrants and extremists are a.) rare cases, and b.) found amongst all faiths (which utterly decimates any point you think you had).
Most people essentially live for others, in that they strive to be acknowledged, accepted, and approved by others. Most people realize that tyranny and extremism gets more enemies than friends, and shy away from such methods.
This is truth of the human condition. No church required to realize that treating people decently tends to get the same in return.
The golden rule doesn't need to be taught to most people. It's an obvious conclusion that most any 4 year old comes to without any indoctrination at all.
Most of all there doesn't need to be a god for the golden rule to make sense. You treat people well, it comes back to you; treat them badly, that comes back to you; your plant your own garden or dig your own grave. No "god said so" needed.
You've missed the point……Tyrants, despots and extremists set their own moral code just like atheists would encourage all of us to do.

Of course, no moral code would hinder from them from doing this, anyway, but the atheist position gives moral legitimacy to this. This is, also, the attitude of hardened criminals where it concerns morality.
Charlie

Papeete, French Polynesia

#2537 Sep 9, 2009
Sorry for the multiple post above due to a screwed up internet connection.

“No Bishop,No King,No Nobility”

Since: May 08

The Underworld

#2538 Sep 9, 2009
Charlie wrote:
<quoted text>
God is not in Hell!
You might want to go there to get away from Him……
YHVH? I wouldn't be too sure about that...

The traditional image of hell is not unlike the pit of a volcano, and an examination of the inflictions of YHVH upon the earth are not unlike the inflictions of volcanos and earthquakes...

I don't think it's a stretch to imagine that YHVH might be the master of hell at all...

“No Bishop,No King,No Nobility”

Since: May 08

The Underworld

#2539 Sep 9, 2009
Charlie wrote:
<quoted text>
This is subsumed under the category of democracy.
<quoted text>
Don't have another one of your hissy fits!
Really, the freedom you're wanting is to party, get wasted and have sex with as many people as you can.
I mean, how big a deal is it to have kids who want to pray before class starts, or having "In God We Trust" on the money? You're afraid that these things will lead people to religion, and that this might eventually hinder you from partying, getting wasted and having sex with everyone you can.
That's what it's about!
So in other words: You have a problem with freedom (period).

Keep your god out of my house and I promise I'll keep the volume at the orgies down.

Mutual respect and all that.

Or we can have it your way... mutual hatred. You want to fight about it? Your choice... we won't bother you if you don't bother us. You choose fighting... bloods on your hands.

Seems to me your kind hates humans, especially when they act like humans. Doesn't seem like the path to enlightenment to me bub...
Charlie

Papeete, French Polynesia

#2540 Sep 9, 2009
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Excellent question, Charlie. Your sense of discernment is unrivaled. Yes, I'm a strong supporter of Obama and the Democrats. I see a great future there.
LOL! You are such a tangled web of contradictions!

Are you the same person here, or is this one of your multiple personalities?

First you say how much of a disappointment Obama is and you rail against the Democrat/Republican power structure, and now you are in bed with Obama and the Democrats!

Very strange!

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#2541 Sep 9, 2009
Charlie, the only reason that I continue answering your questions is to put you on display and demonstrate you. It's nothing but the f*cking twilight Zone conversing with you.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
I have a firm, naturalistic grasp on reality, and I'm not taking advice about it from a religite, thank you very much. You have a pretty bleak view of the history of mankind. Notwithstanding all of the misfortunes of history, there has been a success or two for mankind.
Charlie wrote:
Please indicate a few of the permanent successes of human institutions.
Where did that question come from? Why do the successes have to be in the form of institutions (whatever you mean by that) or even permanent? To you, apparently, the history of mankind is a failure if I can't point to permanent successes of human institutions.

How about medicine or agriculture?
It aint necessarily so wrote:
If you mean personally, I have accepted the reality of my world as I see it, and have adapted. THAT's your religion talking to you - serial failures. American religion, like American conservatism, cannot do business without painting a dire picture.
Charlie wrote:
Because, realistically, the picture is dire! What gives you hope for optimism?
"American religion, like American conservatism, cannot do business without painting a dire picture" But it os the wrong dire picture.

I agree with you in your conclusion, but not in any of the specifics. What your religion and political advisers tell you is all bullshit. You are the problem. You and your kind under their tutelage is what is so dire in the world.

“No Bishop,No King,No Nobility”

Since: May 08

The Underworld

#2542 Sep 9, 2009
john wrote:
Just thought it would be fun to remind the nothinkers they have offered nothing, believe in nothing, and cannot explain their nothing by a repeatable and observable standard. Continue to chase your tails aftet a God you don't believe in. Atheists are a drop in the bucket because nothing is a hard sell.
Ah~ john... back to this retarded nonsense.

Nothing is bliss. Nothing is a silent happiness that lets us enjoy life for what it is.

Nothing is my path to enlightenment. It is true acceptance; acceptance of reality for all the niceties and not-so niceties, not as a part of some twisted scheme, but as nothing of particular importance. In the grand scheme of things nothing is important.

With my nothing I am free to live in the here and now, and not to have to worry about things I have no control over, things that never were, and things that never will be.

I can enjoy my time here, with my friends and family without worrying about nonsense.
Charlie

Papeete, French Polynesia

#2543 Sep 9, 2009
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
First off, consensus does not establish reality. But, ignoring that.
Unless you have a God-like knowledge of reality, which you don't, you cannot say what is reality and what is not. Consensus, for all practical purposes, does establish reality.

It does not establish existence.
If the concept of "god" can change to suits any one person's individual interpretation, then that "god" is made up -- a fairy tale.
Are you now saying that you are ready to specify the properties of "god"?
Are you familiar with the story of the six blind men and the elephant? Same elephant, six different versions.

Your criticism of religion or religious people is that they do not know the things God knows. That's hardly fair.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#2544 Sep 9, 2009
Stump john wrote:
Those Christians couldn't possibly have a valid point now could they Terry? Without the contributions Christians have made to the world you would be scratching your words on a cave wall
[1] Contributions of the Christian method to mankind (prayer, scripture, and listening to men in dresses say what gawd told them to tell you): ZERO point ZERO ZERO!

[2] Contributions of Christians using the scientific method (observation, hypothesis, experimentation, theorizing, predicting and confirming predictions): who cares? They're successes of science, not religion.

http://snipurl.com/riss2

Pud.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#2545 Sep 9, 2009
Charlie wrote:
<quoted text>
You've missed the point……Tyrants, despots and extremists set their own moral code just like atheists would encourage all of us to do.
Of course, no moral code would hinder from them from doing this, anyway, but the atheist position gives moral legitimacy to this.
No it doesn't. Atheism is NOT a doctrine of moral depravity. AGAIN, atheism is simply no-belief in invisible supernatural agents.

ANYTHING else you subscribe to atheism is your bias, not reality.

Secular values teach ethics and personal responsibility for ones actions. This is a much better code than "god told me to do it".
Charlie wrote:
<quoted text>This is, also, the attitude of hardened criminals where it concerns morality.
The evidence denies your claim. According to the Federal Bureau of Prisons there is a statistically significant over-representation of christians (at the point of incarceration) than should be expected based on our general population. AND there is a under-representation of non-theists.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#2546 Sep 9, 2009
Charlie wrote:
<quoted text>
Unless you have a God-like knowledge of reality, which you don't, you cannot say what is reality and what is not. Consensus, for all practical purposes, does establish reality.
It does not establish existence.
At one time the majority of people believed that the Earth was flat and the Sun moved across the sky. That didn't make it reality.
Charlie wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you familiar with the story of the six blind men and the elephant? Same elephant, six different versions. Your criticism of religion or religious people is that they do not know the things God knows. That's hardly fair.
That is not my claim.

My claim is that you say you believe in something but you don't know what it is you believe in.
Charlie

Papeete, French Polynesia

#2547 Sep 9, 2009
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Charlie! One more outburst like that and it's hell for you!
Of course he's in hell. You just said that he was in your imagination, hell is in your imagination, therefore ...[you do the math].
Hell may be in my imagination, but God isn't in the Hell that I imagine.

Hell is the absence of God. Where God is, Hell cannot be. Just as light chases away the darkness, that is the absence of light, so, too, does God chase away Hell – the absence of God.

“No Bishop,No King,No Nobility”

Since: May 08

The Underworld

#2548 Sep 9, 2009
Charlie wrote:
If I were the Emperor of Rome, or just any dictator, I wouldn't need anyone else's approval, acceptance, and acknowledgment.
Ah but they do. They surely do.

You don't know much about humans do you. <- respect the period; that's not a question.
Charlie wrote:
You're talking politics here, not morality or empathy.
See prior rhetorical question.
Charlie wrote:
That "imaginary construct" establishes a code of moral conduct that will make people feel bad about themselves when they violate it. As Christians strive to please God and not man, he is held to a far higher standard than what men might demand of him. And besides, there are so many people all wanting to be pleased in different ways that one will end up being like a lying, hypocritical politician in the end.
I see seeking to please god over man as a far more serious problem which greatly affects our ability to get along. Putting fantasy before brotherhood... doesn't lead to peace.
Charlie wrote:
I mean, who really likes these oily types who flatter others only to gain their favor?
Oily... oils... anointment... anointed one... "the anointed"... khristós... christ...

LOL

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#2549 Sep 9, 2009
Charlie wrote:
What you don't understand is that in a free and democratic society people have the right to petition the government.
And in America, if they're liberals, they can do it in a "free speech zone" (does it get any more Orwellian that that?). There, isolated from the press and the public, they can be harrassed, have dossiers made on them, be brutalized and be arrested.
Charlie wrote:
The alternatives for you is to suffer the imposition of the majority will in a free, democratic process
Been there. Personally, I prefer a Constitutional system where individual rights are protected from the whim of the flavor of the decade in the White House demagoguing zombies. But that option expired in America, so I sought freedom.

I'm sure that nobody thinks that I could enjoy more freedom in Mexico that I did in America, but I do. I can smoke pot without being arrested, play Internet poker for money, buy prescription drugs over the counter, and visit Cuba if I want just for starters.

And no Mexican is tapping my telephone or computer (unless Americans are pressuring them to do so and funding them), I can't end up on a no-fly list, and no cop is going to taze me for looking cross-eyed at him.

Also, I'm far less likely to be shot at random, even in the border towns, or have my life savings inflate to nothing from endless printing of bail out and stimulus dollars.

Plus I have the option of buying socialized health care for $300/yr or the top drawer option for $1500/yr.

Oh, and my breakfast and haircut this morning were eight bucks: Breakfast - chili omelet, hash browns, bacon, and toast: 35 pesos + 10 peso tip ($2.70 +$0.77 =$3.47) Haircut - 50 pesos + 10 peso tip ($3.85 +$0.77 =$4.62). Plus I get 6% in savings accounts and 9% on certificates of deposits.

And my country doesn't execute the retarded or torture people. Imagine that!
Charlie wrote:
or the North Korean/Soviet model.
Fabulous argument.
nina

Ottawa, Canada

#2550 Sep 9, 2009
Charlie wrote:
<quoted text>
....
Of course, no moral code would hinder from them from doing this, anyway, but the atheist position gives moral legitimacy to this....
atheism is not a moral code, authority or framework

it is simply a position that without evidence, there's no reason to beleive in god

I am an atheist and my self determined moral code does prevent me from torturing animals and people, or conducting mass murder

it's really not a difficult thing to conclude that these actions would be bad

and if you can't figure out not to murder, rape, attack, steal or otherwise harm animals or people all on your own

then you aren't at all moral

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