Is the MJ Car Bonnet image a miracle ...
Luke

Vale Park, Australia

#24 Aug 23, 2010
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
I say it's not a painting so the writer will have to come up with a better theory why the blood is as it is.
There you go Paul, all fixed. Why do you make me edit your post to what you really mean. Stop substituting the word science for "I think".(I use that term very lightly)
It's dishonest, then again that's you all over.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#25 Aug 23, 2010
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
Being dishonest, is that an atheist moral value?
You run away crying and deflecting again. Coward. You're spineless.

The values you bring to the defense of your religion reflect the values that your religion and its dogma actually embody, which are very different from those which it claims for itself.

For example, your book says don't lie, but your religion is a lie, you lie to yourself to believe it, and then you go out proselytizing with more lying.

And your book says don't steal, but those very words and indeed the whole Ten Commandments themselves were stolen from the Jews, as was the whole first two-thirds of your book.

Finally, you’re an apologist for an organized pedophile sex ring that supplies boys, relocates suspected priests, and provides legal defense if necessary. How dare you talk to me about morality.

“Snow days!”

Since: Nov 08

A winter wonderland

#26 Aug 23, 2010
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
I am still waiting for you to provide any scientific investigations, by experts in the field, that say it's not a reflection of clouds off the car bonnet. You will also need a psychiatrist to interview the person who originally reported the image to see if he has a hang up on mj. If given the inkblot test the seer may see mj in every inkblot.
I am anxiously waiting your proof the mj car bonnet image is a miracle.
What will it take to get you to understand what satire is?
SupaAFC

Leicester, UK

#27 Aug 23, 2010
Paul WV wrote:
http://www.shroudstory.com/
The Shroud of Turin is the most scientifically study artifact ever. Science is a lost to explain how the image was formed and until science comes up with an alternative theory the theory that it's was a miracle is the most logical.
And since nobody can explain the MJ car bonnet image, it's the most logical theory to assume that it is a miracle.

If you can use an argument from ignorance, then so can I. Don't like it? Think of better arguments.
Paul WV

Linden, NJ

#28 Aug 23, 2010
Luke wrote:
<quoted text>
There you go Paul, all fixed. Why do you make me edit your post to what you really mean. Stop substituting the word science for "I think".(I use that term very lightly)
It's dishonest, then again that's you all over.
It is dishonest to re-word someone's post.

As I said science says it's not a painting; see link below.

A poll shows 1616 believe it to be the burial cloth of Jesus to 102 that say it's not. Now let's see a poll of anyone that claims the mj car bonnet image is a miracle.

" http://wdtprs.com/blog/2010/04/something-new-... ;

" http://catinfor.com/en/2010/04/28/something-n... ;
Paul WV

Linden, NJ

#29 Aug 23, 2010
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
You run away crying and deflecting again. Coward. You're spineless.
The values you bring to the defense of your religion reflect the values that your religion and its dogma actually embody, which are very different from those which it claims for itself.
For example, your book says don't lie, but your religion is a lie, you lie to yourself to believe it, and then you go out proselytizing with more lying.
And your book says don't steal, but those very words and indeed the whole Ten Commandments themselves were stolen from the Jews, as was the whole first two-thirds of your book.
Finally, you’re an apologist for an organized pedophile sex ring that supplies boys, relocates suspected priests, and provides legal defense if necessary. How dare you talk to me about morality.
Is being dishonest an atheist moral value?
SupaAFC

Leicester, UK

#30 Aug 23, 2010
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
I am still waiting for you to provide any scientific investigations, by experts in the field, that say it's not a reflection of clouds off the car bonnet.
And I'm still waiting for you to explain why the same arguments works for a rag, but not a car bonnet.

Your point?
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>You will also need a psychiatrist to interview the person who originally reported the image to see if he has a hang up on mj.If given the inkblot test the seer may see mj in every inkblot.
Only paul fails to see the irony in this statement, especially considering he cannot explain how he "knows" the rag is that of Christ considering there is absolutely no documentation describing what he looked like.
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>I am anxiously waiting your proof the mj car bonnet image is a miracle.
Guess what? I'm still waiting for yours about the rag. If arguments from ignorance and probability works for you, then it works for the rag. Your continual refusal to explain the double standard tells us all we need to know.

The thread doesn't lie, even if you wish it did.
SupaAFC

Leicester, UK

#31 Aug 23, 2010
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't believe it's a miracle so you are a liar; unless, of coarse, you are also claiming atheists believe in miracles.
So, do all atheists believe in miracles, or, just you?
The only person lying here is you. Any rational, honest person would realise that the whole point of the MJ car bonnet is to demonstrate your huge bias in favour of trivial tidbits that strengthens your incredibly weak faith. You are DELIBERATELY PRETENDING that you believe we genuinely think the bonnet is a miracle for the sake of running away from the points of my argument, namely, that your "evidence" is laughable and easily "proves" that a dead popstar is a miraculous messiah.

You are such a hypocrite, and such a coward. Keep up the good work paul - more people are turning away from your religion each year because of arrogant, shameless asshats like you.
SupaAFC

Leicester, UK

#32 Aug 23, 2010
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
As I've posted many times: science corrects itself when presented with new evidence. You can not jut pick and choose what science you want to 'believe'.
Unless they conflict with your religious beliefs, which in that case, a fact is relegated to the status of "opinion".
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>The Shroud reproduction does not match the Shroud of Turin because the blood was added after the image and not before as in the case of the Shroud. If the blood was put on first the image making process would have smeared the blood. Sorry charlie!
How do you know that the blood came first on the original rag?

The simple answer is that you don't.
SupaAFC

Leicester, UK

#33 Aug 23, 2010
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
The science says it's not a painting so the writer will have to come up with a better theory why the blood is as it is.
What "science"?

You are not science, sorry.
SupaAFC

Leicester, UK

#34 Aug 23, 2010
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
Being dishonest, is that an atheist moral value?
And Ain't was being dishonest how, exactly?

He is 100% spot on: everytime we nail your arguments and even give you the odd bone by complying with another of your silly criteria (ie, "someone must believe in it for it to be legit") you either ignore the posts or respond with tripe like the above.

Why do you keep lying, paul? Is that a christian moral value?
SupaAFC

Leicester, UK

#35 Aug 23, 2010
Andie J wrote:
<quoted text>
What will it take to get you to understand what satire is?
paul is deliberately playing dumb to ignore the fact that he cannot refute the car bonnet without in turn refuting his beloved rag.

He really is THAT desperate to believe in his own delusions.
Luke

Vale Park, Australia

#36 Aug 23, 2010
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
It is dishonest to re-word someone's post.
As I said science says it's not a painting; see link below.
A poll shows 1616 believe it to be the burial cloth of Jesus to 102 that say it's not. Now let's see a poll of anyone that claims the mj car bonnet image is a miracle.
" http://wdtprs.com/blog/2010/04/something-new-... ;
" http://catinfor.com/en/2010/04/28/something-n... ;
Yeah nah. Firstly I admitted to editing. It was to emphasise your complete lack of any empirical evidence.
Honesty, had I have edited it and claimed you actually said it that would be dishonesty.

Secondly all the first link proves is 1800 people read the article and 1600 are stupid enough to believe a medieval forgery is a miracle.
SupaAFC

Leicester, UK

#37 Aug 23, 2010
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
It is dishonest to re-word someone's post.
As I said science says it's not a painting; see link below.
"Science" doesn't say anything, let alone what you want "science" to say.
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>A poll shows 1616 believe it to be the burial cloth of Jesus to 102 that say it's not. Now let's see a poll of anyone that claims the mj car bonnet image is a miracle.
" http://wdtprs.com/blog/2010/04/something-new-... ;
" http://catinfor.com/en/2010/04/28/something-n... ;
So you think science is a popularity contest now?
SupaAFC

Leicester, UK

#38 Aug 23, 2010
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
Is being dishonest an atheist moral value?
Irony meter go boom.

This whole thread is a dishonest attempt by you to switch the focus away from your own claims about the rag, and you have the gall to accuse other posts of deceit!

You really do have no shame whatsoever, do you?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#39 Aug 23, 2010
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
Is being dishonest an atheist moral value?
No, it is not. But it is apparently a Christian value. Or are you a renegade?

You know what your book says that means for your eternal soul, don't you, Paulie Boy? Or is it OK to lie if you're doing it for the Jesus?
Paul WV

Linden, NJ

#40 Aug 23, 2010
SupaAFC wrote:
<quoted text>
Irony meter go boom.
This whole thread is a dishonest attempt by you to switch the focus away from your own claims about the rag, and you have the gall to accuse other posts of deceit!
You really do have no shame whatsoever, do you?
The only way you can get people to say the mj car bonnet image is a miracle is for them to lie about it; and then you want me to prove it's not a miracle; get real.
Paul WV

Linden, NJ

#41 Aug 23, 2010
SupaAFC wrote:
<quoted text>
"Science" doesn't say anything, let alone what you want "science" to say.
<quoted text>
So you think science is a popularity contest now?
Science says the image on the Shroud of Turin is not a painting; period.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#42 Aug 23, 2010
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
The only way you can get people to say the mj car bonnet image is a miracle is for them to lie about it; and then you want me to prove it's not a miracle; get real.
I'm using my own Judge Its:

"Coward" "Liar" "Hypocrite"
Paul WV

Linden, NJ

#43 Aug 23, 2010
SupaAFC wrote:
<quoted text>
Unless they conflict with your religious beliefs, which in that case, a fact is relegated to the status of "opinion".
<quoted text>
How do you know that the blood came first on the original rag?
The simple answer is that you don't.
Excerpt from link below: "The protease was
only active against the serum coated fibers and as in the previous study (24) revealed smooth,
non-corroded fiber surfaces indicating that the blood images went onto the cloth before the image
forming process and protected the underlying cloth."

" http://www.shroud.com/pdfs/adler.pdf" ;

The blood was on the cloth first and the image came later, so any reproduction will have to be made the same way.

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