4 Reasons Atheists Have to Fight for ...

4 Reasons Atheists Have to Fight for Their Rights

There are 58 comments on the freethoughtblogs.com story from Aug 16, 2012, titled 4 Reasons Atheists Have to Fight for Their Rights. In it, freethoughtblogs.com reports that:

In the U.S., atheists have laws protecting us. But laws aren't always obeyed, or enforced - and fighting for legal rights can have dire consequences.

Atheists are experiencing real, law-breaking discrimination. The fact that it’s illegal does not always stop it from happening. It is reasonable for us to speak out about it. And it is reasonable for us to expect people to give a damn. It is reasonable to expect our friends, our families, our colleagues, our communities, our country, to pay attention — and to do something about it.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at freethoughtblogs.com.

4Him

Monroe, NC

#25 Aug 19, 2012
Can an atheist prove there is no GOD?

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#26 Aug 19, 2012
4Him wrote:
Can an atheist prove there is no GOD?
It's never been the atheistic claim that gods don't exist. We simple doubt your claim that they do.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#27 Aug 19, 2012
4Him wrote:
Can an atheist prove there is no GOD?
HOWEVER, if you would tell me EXACTLY what the properties are for this "god" entity, I'll see what I can do.

“thoughtful liberal”

Since: Jan 11

Bethlehem, PA

#28 Aug 19, 2012
4Him wrote:
Can an atheist prove there is no GOD?
You're the christian. You're the one who believes. The burden of proof is on you.
Skydaddy ha ha ha

Asheville, NC

#29 Aug 19, 2012
4Him wrote:
Can an atheist prove there is no GOD?
You who propose a god bear the burden of proof. No one with a lick of sense proposes proof of a negative because in logic and science it is impossible. Did you even go to school? Kids are taught that rule of logic in the 6th grade.

Now go walk in the garden alone with your imaginary skydaddy ha ha ha.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#31 Aug 19, 2012
Skydaddy ha ha ha wrote:
<quoted text>
You who propose a god bear the burden of proof. No one with a lick of sense proposes proof of a negative because in logic and science it is impossible. Did you even go to school? Kids are taught that rule of logic in the 6th grade.
Now go walk in the garden alone with your imaginary skydaddy ha ha ha.
Actually it is possible to prove a negative. I can reliably and with complete justification determine that there is not an elephant in my room. The *reason* I can do this is that the properties of elephants are such that any elephant in my room would be detectable. The fact that none is detected *is* good enough to prove no elephants exist in my room.

In order to determine whether an object exists or not, the properties of that object have to be clear enough to allow some sort of judgment based on the evidence.

When it comes to the question of gods, there is little to no agreement about the properties, so no determination of existence can be possible. Until the properties that must be met are agreed to, the issue simply cannot be properly addressed and the question is, strictly speaking, meaningless.
redneck

Glendale, OR

#32 Aug 19, 2012
4Him wrote:
Can an atheist prove there is no GOD?
Can you prove there is no Thor, a greater god.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#33 Aug 19, 2012
4Him wrote:
Can an atheist prove there is no GOD?
Why bother? I'm a skeptic and don't need it. And if you're a Christian - a faith based thinker - you're immune to evidence and argument. So, cui bono?

But since you asked, yes, we can rule out some gods - the logically impossible ones whose descriptions are self-contradictory, like Jehovah-Jesus.
4Him

Monroe, NC

#34 Aug 20, 2012
For all the skeptics, atheists, god-haters, and agnostics:

Go outside and watch the sun rise. Ponder its existence, as well as your own. Watch as the thermals begin to move. See the birds at work and the world of day begin. This is God at work. Look in the mirror. God at work.

Skeptics, etc. persists in their arguments of unbelief because they (at the very root of their unbelief) do not want to believe the are the created, and there is a higher Creator...a higher being than themselves. Self is their god.

Do not stop searching. If you search beyond your self, you will find God in the very person of Christ, and through Him alone. He is the way, the truth, and the life.

"The fool says in his heart 'there is no god'"-Psalms 14:1

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#35 Aug 20, 2012
4Him wrote:
For all the skeptics, atheists, god-haters, and agnostics:
Go outside and watch the sun rise. Ponder its existence, as well as your own. Watch as the thermals begin to move. See the birds at work and the world of day begin. This is God at work. Look in the mirror. God at work.
Skeptics, etc. persists in their arguments of unbelief because they (at the very root of their unbelief) do not want to believe the are the created, and there is a higher Creator...a higher being than themselves. Self is their god.
Do not stop searching. If you search beyond your self, you will find God in the very person of Christ, and through Him alone. He is the way, the truth, and the life.
"The fool says in his heart 'there is no god'"-Psalms 14:1
You poor delusional man.

First off, there is no such thing as a "god-hater". That's a stupid strawman fallacy someone has fed you to incite hate.

Second, "Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?" Douglas Adams

Third, atheists are not the ones who claim the entire universe was created just for us. Again, someone has twisted your thinking around to the point of being absurd.

Fourth, "And whosoever shall say, Thou Fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." (Matthew 5:22)
Dichter und Denker

Asheville, NC

#36 Aug 20, 2012
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually it is possible to prove a negative. I can reliably and with complete justification determine that there is not an elephant in my room. The *reason* I can do this is that the properties of elephants are such that any elephant in my room would be detectable. The fact that none is detected *is* good enough to prove no elephants exist in my room.
In order to determine whether an object exists or not, the properties of that object have to be clear enough to allow some sort of judgment based on the evidence.
When it comes to the question of gods, there is little to no agreement about the properties, so no determination of existence can be possible. Until the properties that must be met are agreed to, the issue simply cannot be properly addressed and the question is, strictly speaking, meaningless.
There are things unseen and undetectable which do exist. They are as yet undiscovered. The quark is an example of a recent discovery. It cannot be seen but its trace has been found. So we now know the quark as well as other subatomic particles do exist because their properties have been found.

But proving the nonexistence of an elephant in a room is hardly analogous to proving the nonexistence of a god. A ghost in a room or the question of whether there is life after death would be less of a strawman than your elephant. If I propose that there *is* a god, or that there *are* gods (which of course I would not do because there is no evidence), you have no way of disproving the existence thereof.

Therefore, most atheists are more realistically defined as agnostics. They do not bother themselves with whether there is either proof or disproof of deities, as long as there are no traces thereof. And as science progresses many phenomena which humans explained as emanations of a god are now understood by sentient human beings as natural phenomena.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#37 Aug 20, 2012
Dichter und Denker wrote:
<quoted text>
There are things unseen and undetectable which do exist. They are as yet undiscovered. The quark is an example of a recent discovery. It cannot be seen but its trace has been found. So we now know the quark as well as other subatomic particles do exist because their properties have been found.
But proving the nonexistence of an elephant in a room is hardly analogous to proving the nonexistence of a god. A ghost in a room or the question of whether there is life after death would be less of a strawman than your elephant. If I propose that there *is* a god, or that there *are* gods (which of course I would not do because there is no evidence), you have no way of disproving the existence thereof.
Therefore, most atheists are more realistically defined as agnostics. They do not bother themselves with whether there is either proof or disproof of deities, as long as there are no traces thereof. And as science progresses many phenomena which humans explained as emanations of a god are now understood by sentient human beings as natural phenomena.
True enough.

But the point is, there is no cogent set of properties for the concept "god", therefore, any consideration of existence is meaningless. That is, one cannot talk of "proof" or "disproof" until the properties of what one means by "god" are well enough defined that some kind of determination can be made.

(look up ignosticism or theological noncognitivism.)

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#38 Aug 20, 2012
4Him wrote:
For all the skeptics, atheists, god-haters, and agnostics: Go outside and watch the sun rise. Ponder its existence, as well as your own. Watch as the thermals begin to move. See the birds at work and the world of day begin. This is God at work. Look in the mirror. God at work.
For all of the theists and god sycophants:

Look around you. Drink deeply of the unspeakable beauty everywhere. Witness the unfathomable diversity and the incredible majesty of all things. Tap into to the delicate interconnectedness and amazing concinnity of the cosmos. Consider the profound mystery of being itself, and shudder. Are you going to tell me that you think that somebody could have whipped all this up from scratch in six lousy days? No frigging way!

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#39 Aug 20, 2012
4Him wrote:
Skeptics, etc. persists in their arguments of unbelief because they (at the very root of their unbelief) do not want to believe the are the created, and there is a higher Creator...a higher being than themselves. Self is their god.
Are we analyzing one another? Oh good!

Faithers, etc. hide in the swaddling and the sloppy comfort of their religion because they (at the very root of their belief) have been maintained in an infantilized state, and are afraid.

Skepticism takes courage, but offers great rewards.

Try standing up like the bipedal ape you were born to be, and look out into the universe, which may be almost empty, and which may contain no gods at all. Then face and accept the very real possibility that we may be all there is for light years.

Accept that you may be vulnerable and not watched over.

Accept the likelihood of your own mortality and finititude.

Accept the reality of your insignificance everywhere but earth, and that you might be unloved except by those who know you - people, and maybe a few animals.

Because as far as we know, that's how it is.

It's unpleasant at first, but be brave! Religion is comforting, but at a great cost. The infantilizing of religion costs you your only shot at an authentic existence. A theist can never know the sublime and ineffable joy of doing good for goodness sake, with no expectation that anyone will ever know about it or reward you for it.

If you believe that a cosmic eye in the sky is always watching and judging you, always tallying rewards and punishment, you simply can't grow up. If the baby sitter never leaves, or if the cop is always in the rear view mirror, you remain a child, or a subject, or a slave.

But it's different for the unbeliever. When I pull over on a rural road to save a turtle crossing it, I know that nobody will ever know or care except me. Because there was nobody there in that corner of the universe to take responsibility for it, so I did.

I have made one tiny piece of reality my responsibility, and that's as close to a godlike experience as you can get.[Incidentally, I would never torture the turtle for not worshiping me. I'm better than that, and couldn't possible worship anything less than me. I know that such language enrages believers, but it's true. The god your religion offers isn't a good enough person to be my friend. I sure couldn't worship it.]

So, it's worth making the effort to learn to face reality without religion, although I suspect that you need to do it at a younger age than most of us posting here.

But once you have faced the frightening, lonely, and bleak aspects of existence and learned to cope with them maturely, it doesn't feel nearly as frightening, lonely, or bleak any more. Only then can you proceed to develop in ways prevented by an infantilizing dogma - so called self-actualization and authentic existence.
Him

Monroe, NC

#40 Aug 20, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Are we analyzing one another? Oh good!
Faithers, etc. hide in the swaddling and the sloppy comfort of their religion because they (at the very root of their belief) have been maintained in an infantilized state, and are afraid.
Skepticism takes courage, but offers great rewards.
Try standing up like the bipedal ape you were born to be, and look out into the universe, which may be almost empty, and which may contain no gods at all. Then face and accept the very real possibility that we may be all there is for light years.
Accept that you may be vulnerable and not watched over.
Accept the likelihood of your own mortality and finititude.
Accept the reality of your insignificance everywhere but earth, and that you might be unloved except by those who know you - people, and maybe a few animals.
Because as far as we know, that's how it is.
It's unpleasant at first, but be brave! Religion is comforting, but at a great cost. The infantilizing of religion costs you your only shot at an authentic existence. A theist can never know the sublime and ineffable joy of doing good for goodness sake, with no expectation that anyone will ever know about it or reward you for it.
If you believe that a cosmic eye in the sky is always watching and judging you, always tallying rewards and punishment, you simply can't grow up. If the baby sitter never leaves, or if the cop is always in the rear view mirror, you remain a child, or a subject, or a slave.
But it's different for the unbeliever. When I pull over on a rural road to save a turtle crossing it, I know that nobody will ever know or care except me. Because there was nobody there in that corner of the universe to take responsibility for it, so I did.
I have made one tiny piece of reality my responsibility, and that's as close to a godlike experience as you can get.[Incidentally, I would never torture the turtle for not worshiping me. I'm better than that, and couldn't possible worship anything less than me. I know that such language enrages believers, but it's true. The god your religion offers isn't a good enough person to be my friend. I sure couldn't worship it.]
So, it's worth making the effort to learn to face reality without religion, although I suspect that you need to do it at a younger age than most of us posting here.
But once you have faced the frightening, lonely, and bleak aspects of existence and learned to cope with them maturely, it doesn't feel nearly as frightening, lonely, or bleak any more. Only then can you proceed to develop in ways prevented by an infantilizing dogma - so called self-actualization and authentic existence.
Wow! It takes more faith than I've got to be an atheist! Faith in nothing is a difficult concept.
Humanist

Asheville, NC

#41 Aug 20, 2012
Him wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow! It takes more faith than I've got to be an atheist! Faith in nothing is a difficult concept.
Then your life is far emptier than the life of an atheist. We atheists believe in facing life fearlessly and without zany superstitions. We believe that hospitals should be built instead of churches, that good deeds should be done instead of prayers said. We want poverty vanquished, war eliminated, and disease extirpated from the face of the earth. We are above all humanists who do not just speak of our love of humanity, but practice it in our daily lives.

We believe in the scientific method. We believe in solving our own problems and not trying to lay them on a nonexistent supernatural force. We believe that heaven should be erected here on earth. There are no rewards after death except our progeny. We should lay up the treasures of life and the pursuit of happiness for us and our children and their children, not for pipe-dreams and streets of gold.

Most of us are familiar with the historical evils of Christianity, with its illogical book full of contradictions and lies, with its savage inquisitions, its cruel jealous deity, genocide, human sacrifice, and bloody crusades.

These are a few of the many sound reasons why we are atheists.
SomeOldDude

Asheville, NC

#42 Aug 20, 2012
When the SHTF, who will you call to? A Golden statue? Perhaps mankind? Freedom of belief is ok, but God will take care of his children whatever happens! Believe in God or not, he is the Alpha and Omega.
4Him

Monroe, NC

#43 Aug 20, 2012
Humanist wrote:
<quoted text>
Then your life is far emptier than the life of an atheist. We atheists believe in facing life fearlessly and without zany superstitions. We believe that hospitals should be built instead of churches, that good deeds should be done instead of prayers said. We want poverty vanquished, war eliminated, and disease extirpated from the face of the earth. We are above all humanists who do not just speak of our love of humanity, but practice it in our daily lives.
We believe in the scientific method. We believe in solving our own problems and not trying to lay them on a nonexistent supernatural force. We believe that heaven should be erected here on earth. There are no rewards after death except our progeny. We should lay up the treasures of life and the pursuit of happiness for us and our children and their children, not for pipe-dreams and streets of gold.
Most of us are familiar with the historical evils of Christianity, with its illogical book full of contradictions and lies, with its savage inquisitions, its cruel jealous deity, genocide, human sacrifice, and bloody crusades.
These are a few of the many sound reasons why we are atheists.
Atheism sounds like a great religion. How's it going so far? Changing the world, are you?

Christianity (albeit practiced poorly by sinners like me) is based on faith in Jesus Christ, God's Son, who died for you and for me while His enemy, and reconciled us to God so we can have a relationship with Him...His original intent. My life has purpose, and I have a future beyond the grave. I do not base my world view on what science tells me, but on what the Creator tells me. One day, every knee shall bow and confess Jesus Christ is Lord of all. Until then, I will proclaim Him as my Savior and Lord now. You can know Him, too. I pray you will one day.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#44 Aug 20, 2012
Him wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow! It takes more faith than I've got to be an atheist! Faith in nothing is a difficult concept.
Atheism isn't for everybody.
4Him

Monroe, NC

#45 Aug 20, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheism isn't for everybody.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish, but shall have everlasting life.
John 3:16

The gospel of Jesus Christ is for everyone. God desires than none be apart from Him. He loves you even though you may despise Him now. Please, open your heart and listen to this good news.

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