Since: Feb 13

Los Angeles, CA

#1654 May 23, 2013
NightSerf wrote:
<quoted text>There's a huge difference. The Holocaust is documented historical fact, while the stories about Moses have no documentation outside of the Torah itself even though there are records that should have included at least some of the events depicted in Exodus and perhaps some of the patriarchal books within Genesis. One can quite rationally doubt the one but not the other without the anti-Semitic bias that you imply.I think you should apologize to DS.
---------

The Bible has been telling about the Exodus from Egypt for thousands of years. If only after 70 years the crowd that denies the Holocaust only increases by the thousands imagine after another
100 years. The reason is but one: Antisemitism. The anxiety to erase the Jewish memory from the face of the earth. That's as simple as that.

Since: Feb 13

Los Angeles, CA

#1655 May 23, 2013
Thinking wrote:
So what? Wishing doesn't make something real. Some people would worship a turd on a string if they were told to.
<quoted text>
-------

So, why don't you explain to me how something can cause itself into existence if you are so wise?
Thinking

Sturminster Newton, UK

#1656 May 23, 2013
What does your question mean?
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
-------
So, why don't you explain to me how something can cause itself into existence if you are so wise?

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#1657 May 23, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
----------
What do you know? I am part of a People who celebrate Passover every year for thousands of years reminding every new generation of the Exodus from Egypt. You were born "yesterday" and want to tell us that it never appened? You are simply doing nothing different from the modern deniers of the Holocaust already exercising the world to deny the Holocaust as a myth. Nice try but it missed the target.
You have things quite turned around there. The Holocaust deniers are actively denying the evidence that does exist, and which is voluminous. But the ONLY evidence for your Moses is an ancient book which fails to agree with every other historical reference from the time. The Bible's story of Moses carries no more weight for the existence of Moses than Homer's epics are evidence for the existence of Odysseus.

Egyptian records were extensive, yet there is no mention in them of Moses or the Israelites in Egypt. You can look all you want (and many many people have) and you will find no such records in Egypt or any other culture from that time.

“Fortes Fortuna Juvat, ”

Since: Dec 09

Wichita. Ks.

#1658 May 23, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
-------
So, why don't you explain to me how something can cause itself into existence if you are so wise?
I would ask you the same.
You claim that we came for out of nothingness.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#1659 May 23, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
---------
The Bible has been telling about the Exodus from Egypt for thousands of years.
Not really.

No story, no book, no tale in the bible is before roughly 500BCE.

It was fabricated by the then-rising priest class, in such a way so as to appear much older than it was at the time, and in order to for them to justify their existence (and to get a free meal, of course).

If you examine the other religions in existence at 500BCE, in the Palestine area, you will easily see where those early would-be priests stole their tales from.

**nothing** in the bible is original material either; it's simply stolen, copied, lifted-from surrounding religions of that day.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#1660 May 23, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
-------
So, why don't you explain to me how something can cause itself into existence if you are so wise?
You first: You believe your terrorist-god did exactly that!

But our universe?

Is uncaused. This is easy to show, using Quantum Mechanics-- a science that has more evidence supporting it than about any other scientific area we know.

The universe is an uncaused event-- no need for your ugly, terroristic-godling.

*especially* not *your* god.

If there WAS a god?

It is likely Thor anyway-- Thor is cool. Thor has a hammer. Thor can ride in Iron Chariots too.

Your god?

Easily defeated by ... iron chariots....!
Thinking

Sturminster Newton, UK

#1661 May 23, 2013
Shibolet thinks that if we don't have scientific explanations to absolutely everything today then the only thing to do is to go worship a sky pixie.

And tell prawns to f**k off.
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
You first: You believe your terrorist-god did exactly that!
But our universe?
Is uncaused. This is easy to show, using Quantum Mechanics-- a science that has more evidence supporting it than about any other scientific area we know.
The universe is an uncaused event-- no need for your ugly, terroristic-godling.
*especially* not *your* god.
If there WAS a god?
It is likely Thor anyway-- Thor is cool. Thor has a hammer. Thor can ride in Iron Chariots too.
Your god?
Easily defeated by ... iron chariots....!

“Educating the uneducated”

Since: Aug 12

Montreal

#1662 May 24, 2013
Thinking wrote:
<quoted text>Shibolet thinks that if we don't have scientific explanations to absolutely everything today then the only thing to do is to go worship a sky pixie.

And tell prawns to f**k off.
He/she is obviously scared of not knowing. That's something a lot of religious people are; just scared because they don't know.
They don't know how anything came to be, along with many other things.
They replace that lack of knowledge with a being that can do all that and more. It makes them feel safe.

Though people who are not irrationally scared of saying "I don't know" once in awhile, like ourselves, don't need their fairy tales. We instead choose to accept that we don't know and move on with our lives.
Thinking

Sturminster Newton, UK

#1664 May 24, 2013
I do agree. If you don't know something you can park it, or go learn/research it.

Too many people take whatever lies their religion gives them.
Lacez wrote:
<quoted text>
He/she is obviously scared of not knowing. That's something a lot of religious people are; just scared because they don't know.
They don't know how anything came to be, along with many other things.
They replace that lack of knowledge with a being that can do all that and more. It makes them feel safe.
Though people who are not irrationally scared of saying "I don't know" once in awhile, like ourselves, don't need their fairy tales. We instead choose to accept that we don't know and move on with our lives.

Since: Feb 13

Los Angeles, CA

#1665 May 24, 2013
Thinking wrote:
Shibolet thinks that if we don't have scientific explanations to absolutely everything today then the only thing to do is to go worship a sky pixie.
And tell prawns to f**k off.
<quoted text>
-------

You are totally wrong. That's not what I think. But hey, that's what atheists are good at: To add their owns words and charge another of being the author of them. I have decided to adopt the atheistic cliché of "I don't know." Therefore, I still don't know how to describe God. I am still studying about Him, Her or It. Now, independently of the idea of God, my question remains: If the BB explains the origin of the universe, it is evident that the universe had a beginning. How did it cause itself to exist?

Since: Feb 13

Los Angeles, CA

#1666 May 24, 2013
Very Cynical Person wrote:
<quoted text>
I would ask you the same. You claim that we came for out of nothingness.
----------

Now, you are behaving according to your username. I said that if matter cannot cause itself to exist the Primal Cause is implied. That's quite different than the statement that "We come out of nothingness." I did not come out of nothingness but if the first cause didn't how did it cause itself to exist? As simple as that; no need to add God into the equation. If you don't know, why don't you admit you have failed?

Since: Feb 13

Los Angeles, CA

#1667 May 24, 2013
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
You have things quite turned around there. The Holocaust deniers are actively denying the evidence that does exist, and which is voluminous. But the ONLY evidence for your Moses is an ancient book which fails to agree with every other historical reference from the time. The Bible's story of Moses carries no more weight for the existence of Moses than Homer's epics are evidence for the existence of Odysseus.
Egyptian records were extensive, yet there is no mention in them of Moses or the Israelites in Egypt. You can look all you want (and many many people have) and you will find no such records in Egypt or any other culture from that time.
----------

All other books of History are nothing else but books written by men. The Bible is also a book written by men. The books of Josephus
are also books of History and they witness about the Exodus from Egypt. What is this paranoia about the book called Bible, is it because it teaches about God? Would you accept its testimony if all
pages about God were torn from the book? The whole book of Esther in the Bible does not mention the name God even once. Would it be adopted by atheists if it was not included in the Bible? And last but not least, ironic it might be, no book has ever matched the Bible as the most famous bestseller on earth. "Long live the king!"

Since: Feb 13

Los Angeles, CA

#1668 May 24, 2013
Thinking wrote:
What does your question mean?
<quoted text>
-------

Do I have to teach you English too? I did not ask you in Hebrew.
The universe is composed of matter. The BB has been adopted by all cosmologists save exceptions as the closest-to-the-truth step to explain the origin of the universe. Therefore, how did the universe
cause itself to exist if the Primal Cause is not to be implied?

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#1669 May 24, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
-------
You are totally wrong. That's not what I think. But hey, that's what atheists are good at: To add their owns words and charge another of being the author of them. I have decided to adopt the atheistic cliché of "I don't know." Therefore, I still don't know how to describe God. I am still studying about Him, Her or It. Now, independently of the idea of God, my question remains: If the BB explains the origin of the universe, it is evident that the universe had a beginning. How did it cause itself to exist?
And once again, the answer is that causality does not apply. Time began when the universe began, and it is self-contradictory to talk about the cause of time because causes *require* time.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#1670 May 24, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
----------
Now, you are behaving according to your username. I said that if matter cannot cause itself to exist the Primal Cause is implied.
Yes, you said that. You were wrong.
That's quite different than the statement that "We come out of nothingness." I did not come out of nothingness but if the first cause didn't how did it cause itself to exist?
You are *assuming* there was a cause. That is where you go wrong.
As simple as that; no need to add God into the equation. If you don't know, why don't you admit you have failed?
No need to invoke a primal cause either. Why don't *you* admit you have failed?

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#1671 May 24, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
-------
Do I have to teach you English too? I did not ask you in Hebrew.
The universe is composed of matter. The BB has been adopted by all cosmologists save exceptions as the closest-to-the-truth step to explain the origin of the universe. Therefore, how did the universe
cause itself to exist if the Primal Cause is not to be implied?
You are assuming there was a cause. You are wrong.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#1672 May 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
And once again, the answer is that causality does not apply. Time began when the universe began, and it is self-contradictory to talk about the cause of time because causes *require* time.
False statement.

Causality applies to anything that begins to exist, and you have no proof that it requires time, and you have no proof that absolute time began with the universe.

You are stating as fact something you base on a string of assumptions.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#1673 May 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
You are assuming there was a cause. You are wrong.
No, he is right.

You are assuming, not he.

You are assuming that causal order is temporal order for the universe, and nothing is possible absent that order.

Your claim is that temporal order caused itself.

That is impossible.

You are claiming temporal order caused temporal order, but also claiming no causality is possible without temporal order, which would mean temporal order could not cause temporal order.

Your claim can be summarized as A caused A, and no A is possible until A.
Thinking

Sturminster Newton, UK

#1674 May 24, 2013
Not every scientist believes the big bang created anything more than our locally observable universe.

So what have decapods got to do with it?
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
-------
You are totally wrong. That's not what I think. But hey, that's what atheists are good at: To add their owns words and charge another of being the author of them. I have decided to adopt the atheistic cliché of "I don't know." Therefore, I still don't know how to describe God. I am still studying about Him, Her or It. Now, independently of the idea of God, my question remains: If the BB explains the origin of the universe, it is evident that the universe had a beginning. How did it cause itself to exist?

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