The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#1122 Apr 25, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
To me there are many possibilities, including the one of the divine
Creator.
But not anything uncaused, unless of course it happens to be your 'divine' creator. No double-standard there then.(shrug)
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
----
If you have an evidence that something can cause itself into existence why don't you show me?
Why do you continue to insist that we show you evidence of something which is NOT our position, especially when the possibility proposed is that it was NOT caused?

Answer - You're just another dishonest fundie who's too incredulous to accept the idea of anything being uncaused UNLESS it applies to YOUR favourite wizard.
Shibolet wrote:
See the fallacy where you dwell?
Not really, since it's not ours that is based on dishonesty. For keep in mind we also accept the possibility of potential causes, which have since been elaborated on.
Shibolet wrote:
Only verbal juggling that explains nothing.
Actually it's your position which explains nothing. Invoking an invisible magic Jewish wizard is not an explanation. It is a WHO, not a HOW. And it's based on zero evidence. But there is this old book which you were brought up on which talks about talking lizards, donkeys and the Earth being flat. But it probably picked the right wizard out of the thousands proposed throughout history though.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#1123 Apr 25, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
---
I have no idea of what you are talking about. God is not like a man to suffer if this is what you mean. That's another problem with atheists: Anthropomorphism.
Actually that's PRECISELY what the creationist problem is. You are unable to grasp the concept of quantum events because they are not observable on a macro-Newtonian scale (the only scale we can determine using our five biological senses). "Everything MUST have a cause" under that axiom, therefore you claim a "who" MUST have created the universe - the very ESSENCE of anthropomorphism.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#1124 Apr 25, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
--------
That's another problem with atheists: The fallacy of appealing to authorities. Just because another atheist has written a book of balderdash that pleases your preconceived notions it is enough for you to make of it your bible.
Shibolet wrote:
Behold another guy claiming to know better than Einstein. I wonder why Einstein never gave a damn about quantum physics which he considered a wasting of time.
I trust even you saw that irony meter go boom.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#1125 Apr 25, 2013
Carchar king wrote:
<quoted text>
Why should people not respect a God that created them.
For the same reason one would not respect their father if they turned out to be a serial killer.

Bear in mind that your god is the most heinous serial killer ever, according to your favourite book.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#1126 Apr 25, 2013
Carchar king wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, actually my life is great, especially after being blessed by the lord.
Then you best have a word with Brother Edward who appears to be rather depressed:

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T...

Of course I'm not sure exactly to what he was referring to when he mentioned "The Death of an Atheist", rather than the end of the acceptance of atheism. I truly hope that our Brother Edward is nothing like this Brother Edward:

http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/Edward
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#1127 Apr 25, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
-------
Very good! I agree with Krause's book that indeed there is no such thing as nothing. Therefore there is the universe which did not cause itself into existence. WHO DID? We are back to square one.
(emphasis mine)

Yes, you are back to square one - incredulous anthropomorphism.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#1128 Apr 25, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
-----
To be compassionate is an emotion. God is not like a man to be activated by emotions. You don't have to respect God and that's not the issue here as long as we respect each other and are compassionate with our fellow man.
Actually according to the Bible that god is VERY motivated by emotions. And tends to order complete and total genocides of ENTIRE POPULATIONS (plants included) over such trivial things like say, having a difference of opinion.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#1129 Apr 25, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
-------
When the assertion is logical there is no need of further support.
My assertion is that something cannot cause itself into existence.
Any further attempt to support this assertion is irrelevant.
Indeed. That is because there is no evidence.(shrug)

Like I pointed out to you ages ago, your thinking is Aristotelian in nature. Very ancient thinking, and in today's day and age, very wrong. This is why empiricism is important - something rejected by creationist apologists at every possible turn while hypocritically accepting the fruits of empirical methods. This is why if we did not have video evidence to the contrary you would be claiming that heavier objects fall faster than lighter ones. In fact LGK is a moon-landing denier as well as a YEC reality-denier so I'll have to make a mental note next time he shows up whether he accepts Newtonian mechanics or not.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#1130 Apr 25, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
What we have found over time is that people *think* certain ideas are logically necessary, but in fact they are not. For example, it was 'obvious' to Aristotle that heavy things fall faster than light things. He saw that as 'logical'. The problem is that it is false.
Your problem is that you use the notion of 'cause' without defining that notion or demonstrating how it works. In practice, there are many situations where causality simply does not apply. Such situations tend to happen in the quantum realm, but they are well-established.
So, before you proceed, please give a definition of 'A causes B'. Be as clear as you can be.
Then, derive *from your definition* some useful properties of causality (such as nothing can cause itself and anything else you want to claim about the necessity of the existence of causes).
My bet is that you will be unable to do this. Why? Because causality simply doesn't work in practice.
Especially considering this isn't the first time you've asked him.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#1131 Apr 25, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
Early morning observation before I've had my cup of coffee aka JOE, Cc tea 4U!
I do believe believe we have One or more car salesman. Representing,(Fantasy motors) if you will, In this and other forums.
The sales pitches are Walking around the car kicking for tires is pretty much like reading a page of the Bible . This is either either the same or rambles into the completely bizarre much like the Edsel.
Why do atheist forums attract perhaps the most ignorant uninformed people on the planet?
We certainly pose no threat to any government
The voice of intelligence reason and common is obvious, our opponents Range from the from the comedic to certifiable
Using their logic we will draw this conclusion
Comedy to Certifiable (2-'c') equal CC
CC EQUAL GREAT TEA
Enjoy your morning constant comment by coffee just arrived
;)
:)

Today? I had me a cuppa Joe-- double-strength coffee.

I like to get my 8 cups of coffee down in one go-- one cup's worth, if you will.

:D

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#1132 Apr 25, 2013
Carchar king wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, actually my life is great, especially after being blessed by the lord.
I understand that there are a great many little kids who have also been "blessed" by "the lord".

Their lives are ruined as result of this... "blessing".

We've see the evil that is your hate-cult.

It is time for it to go away.
Imhotep

United States

#1133 Apr 25, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
:)
Today? I had me a cuppa Joe-- double-strength coffee.
I like to get my 8 cups of coffee down in one go-- one cup's worth, if you will.
:D
Down the proverbial hatch!

I had a wee bit of Grand Marnier ;)
Fired up a blunt, And enjoyed a superb breakfast!
Lincoln

United States

#1134 Apr 25, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually according to the Bible that god is VERY motivated by emotions. And tends to order complete and total genocides of ENTIRE POPULATIONS (plants included) over such trivial things like say, having a difference of opinion.
Odd that atheists take a literal interpretation of the Bible, Ironic
Imhotep

United States

#1135 Apr 25, 2013
Lincoln wrote:
<quoted text>
Odd that atheists take a literal interpretation of the Bible, Ironic
Atheism is a nonprophet organization.

Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten you before.

If you can't hear me, it's because Imhotep is in parentheses. ;)
Lincoln

United States

#1136 Apr 25, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheism is a nonprophet organization.
Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten you before.
If you can't hear me, it's because Imhotep is in parentheses. ;)
I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he's gone

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#1137 Apr 25, 2013
Lincoln wrote:
<quoted text>
Odd that atheists take a literal interpretation of the Bible, Ironic
It's ironic that a theist is telling atheists that they are too literal.

Considering its you guys who believe in the fairytale fantasy story from a badly written book is real life.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#1138 Apr 25, 2013
Lincoln wrote:
<quoted text>
I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he's gone
Another of your creationist hallucinations. Get a doctor. A real one, not a faith healer.
Lincoln

United States

#1139 Apr 26, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
Another of your creationist hallucinations. Get a doctor. A real one, not a faith healer.
I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he's gone
Steve Wright Joke
Lighten up, this is a thread

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#1140 Apr 26, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
---
I have no idea of what you are talking about. God is not like a man to suffer if this is what you mean. That's another problem with atheists: Anthropomorphism.
Did you really just say that anthropomorphism is a problem with atheists? That's one of the funniest things I've ever read.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#1141 Apr 26, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
--------
That's another problem with atheists: The fallacy of appealing to authorities. Just because another atheist has written a book of balderdash that pleases your preconceived notions it is enough for you to make of it your bible.
He told you to read the book to learn about the universe. He did not say "krauss says this happened therefore it happened."

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