A Proof That God Exists
Imhotep

Saint Petersburg, FL

#857 Apr 18, 2013
Lincoln wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheism has being around since the Greeks thousands of year ago. It is a good philosophy, with limited proof?
Do you still have mandated prayer in public, tax supported schools, by Law in the UK.
I am refering to this:
School Standards and Framework Act 1998 states that all pupils in state schools must take part in a daily act of collective worship, unless their parents request that they be excused from attending. The majority of these acts of collective worship are required to be "wholly or mainly of a broadly Christian character", with two exceptions:
* Religious schools, which should provide worship appropriate to the school's religion (although most religious schools in the UK are Christian.)
* Schools where the Local Education Authority's Standing Advisory Council on Religious Education has determined that Christian worship would not be appropriate for part or all of the school.
Your Bible says you should worship in private why don't you?

Do you need that cleric to explain the unexplainable?

At what point in time did you decide that you were totally unable to think?

rationalizing that only religion could solve those unanswered questions your mind was simply incapable of retaining any information unless it was told to you by others claiming to 'know' the .
Unknowable

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, "yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up must come down, down, down. Amen!" If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”~Dan Barker, ex-preacher
Thinking

Sheffield, UK

#858 Apr 18, 2013
I remember a few prayers at my church of England primary school (I was there ages 5 to 10). No prayers at all after that.

Read this piece - looks like that law you referenced is usually ignored.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tomchiverss...
Lincoln wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheism has being around since the Greeks thousands of year ago. It is a good philosophy, with limited proof?
Do you still have mandated prayer in public, tax supported schools, by Law in the UK.
I am refering to this:
School Standards and Framework Act 1998 states that all pupils in state schools must take part in a daily act of collective worship, unless their parents request that they be excused from attending. The majority of these acts of collective worship are required to be "wholly or mainly of a broadly Christian character", with two exceptions:
* Religious schools, which should provide worship appropriate to the school's religion (although most religious schools in the UK are Christian.)
* Schools where the Local Education Authority's Standing Advisory Council on Religious Education has determined that Christian worship would not be appropriate for part or all of the school.
Lincoln

United States

#859 Apr 18, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
Your Bible says you should worship in private why don't you?
Do you need that cleric to explain the unexplainable?
At what point in time did you decide that you were totally unable to think?
rationalizing that only religion could solve those unanswered questions your mind was simply incapable of retaining any information unless it was told to you by others claiming to 'know' the .
Unknowable
“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, "yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up must come down, down, down. Amen!" If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”~Dan Barker, ex-preacher
Read your own post as it has nothing to do with the
question regarding enforced prayer in the English school system.
Since i am not a fundamentalist you are wasting you typing.

Original question was dealing with the following :

School Standards and Framework Act 1998 states that all pupils in state schools must take part in a daily act of collective worship, unless their parents request that they be excused from attending. The majority of these acts of collective worship are required to be "wholly or mainly of a broadly Christian character", with two exceptions:

* Religious schools, which should provide worship appropriate to the school's religion (although most religious schools in the UK are Christian.)
* Schools where the Local Education Authority's Standing Advisory Council on Religious Education has determined that Christian worship would not be appropriate for part or all of the school.
Amused

Burlington, MA

#860 Apr 18, 2013
Lincoln wrote:
So far no scientific proof of atheism.
We do see agnostics-atheists whatever, complaining when others post on their sacred threads.
Well, duh. Atheism is the default position unless and until someone who makes a positive claim that a supernatural being exists puts forward some credible evidence tending to prove that claim.
Lincoln

United States

#861 Apr 18, 2013
Thinking wrote:
I remember a few prayers at my church of England primary school (I was there ages 5 to 10). No prayers at all after that.
Read this piece - looks like that law you referenced is usually ignored.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tomchiverss...
<quoted text>
Yes! thank you for the article .
I would be against prayer in tax supported schools.
This is illegal in the US
Established Churches in England, Wales and Scotland do exist ?
Thinking

Sheffield, UK

#862 Apr 18, 2013
Yes there are established churches. Although more of their branches are becoming pubs as attendances collapse. This was my old local before I moved south.

http://www.churchhousebanbury.co.uk/

By the way, your jaywalking laws seem more anachronistic to me. I'm not used to being told how to cross roads.
Lincoln wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes! thank you for the article .
I would be against prayer in tax supported schools.
This is illegal in the US
Established Churches in England, Wales and Scotland do exist ?
Lincoln

United States

#863 Apr 18, 2013
Thinking wrote:
Yes there are established churches. Although more of their branches are becoming pubs as attendances collapse. This was my old local before I moved south.
http://www.churchhousebanbury.co.uk/
By the way, your jaywalking laws seem more anachronistic to me. I'm not used to being told how to cross roads.
<quoted text>
*jaywalking*
In London was almost run over as looked the wrong way for traffic.:-)
Thinking

Sheffield, UK

#864 Apr 18, 2013
But you weren't... we do try not to run people over.
Lincoln wrote:
<quoted text>
*jaywalking*
In London was almost run over as looked the wrong way for traffic.:-)
Amused

Burlington, MA

#865 Apr 18, 2013
Thinking wrote:
But you weren't... we do try not to run people over.
<quoted text>
Kudos, then, to British drivers. Having been a frequent pedestrian in Boston and New York, and an occasional pedestrian in other major cities, I can tell you that not running people over is somewhat less of a priority for drivers in urban America. Only the threat of jail, fines and ruinous lawsuits prevents daily re-enactment of Deathrace 2000 on city streets.

Outside of the major cities, jaywalking ordinances are either non-existent or unenforced. In my city,there is an ordinance on the books, but the maximum punishment is a $2 fine, and the police cannot demand identification be produced by an offender, making tickets essentially unenforceable. If you did cross in a spectacularly unsafe way, a cop might point out your stupidity orally, but the chance of him reaching for a citation book is nil.
Thinking

Sheffield, UK

#866 Apr 18, 2013
I was the middle car in a three car sandwich in Connecticut. The policeman got really angry when I said I didn't know where you keep your car documentation, could you point it out to me. He was massively inbred. I told him getting angry wouldn't get him the paperwork any quicker, but helping me might.

Luckily the lady we were shunted into found it for me. I have really enjoyed my visits to the US but I thought that policeman sent out a really poor message to a victim of someone's dangerous driving.
Amused wrote:
<quoted text>
Kudos, then, to British drivers. Having been a frequent pedestrian in Boston and New York, and an occasional pedestrian in other major cities, I can tell you that not running people over is somewhat less of a priority for drivers in urban America. Only the threat of jail, fines and ruinous lawsuits prevents daily re-enactment of Deathrace 2000 on city streets.
Outside of the major cities, jaywalking ordinances are either non-existent or unenforced. In my city,there is an ordinance on the books, but the maximum punishment is a $2 fine, and the police cannot demand identification be produced by an offender, making tickets essentially unenforceable. If you did cross in a spectacularly unsafe way, a cop might point out your stupidity orally, but the chance of him reaching for a citation book is nil.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#870 Apr 18, 2013
KJV wrote:
Again that car claiming humans must be made of steel / plastic. Because that's all the car can relate to.
Despite this, fundies still equate humans to machines.

Just another one of those "one way only" fundie rules.
KJV wrote:
The car can't fathom living tissue just as you can't fathom what God might be.
Just as you can't fathom what God might be. Which renders all your pontificating nothing but verbal mastrubation.(shrug)
KJV

United States

#871 Apr 18, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>No.
Good a straight answer.

So you claim space, time and matter and energy all came into existence by themselves from nothing.

By the laws of the universe this is impossible, correct?(Taking into account that the universe was not here yet) so even without a universe with its laws of physics would this still not seem impossible? It could not happen!

Therefore you see the proof that something or someone created the universe. It had to be no other way for it to happen.
KJV

United States

#872 Apr 18, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>No, that is not my claim. Please read more carefully. Part of the problem is a slight confusion in the word 'universe'. The ways scientists use that word today, it generally means only the stuff after the Big Bang. If there is other stuff in existence, that would be part of a multiverse.

There are three main scenarios:

1. Our universe is all there is. In this case, time started about 13.7 billion years ago. It is literally meaningless to talk about 13.8 billion years ago. Since causality requires time, it is also meaningless to talk about the 'cause' of our universe. This, by the way, is the classical Big Bang scenario.

2. There was a previous, contracting universe before ours. In this case, time extends infinitely into the past. The Big Bang is actually a Big Bounce between a contraction phase and our current expansion phase. In this situation, we could say our universe is caused by the previous one. Also, in this scenario, there has always been matter, energy, time and some sort of universe. This, by the way, is the scenario of Loop Quantum Gravity.

3. There is a multiverse with many universes. In this case, time is also infinite into the past and there was always time, matter, and energy. The Big Bang is then just our universe 'budding off' the main multiverse, a process that happens with other universes also. This is the scenario suggested by String Theory.

Now, we do not know which of these scenarios actually is the case. Part of the problem is that we can only, at this point, get data from our own universe, so cases 2 and 3 remain highly speculative. On the other hand, scenario 1 relies on classical general relativity and does not use a theory of quantum gravity (which would be important in the very early stages of the expansion, bounce, and/or budding process).
So in order for science to keep their BB guess alive they need to change the meaning of the word universe.
Why not, that changed "Kind" to "species" so evolution could hold together longer.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good theory!
Thinking

Sheffield, UK

#873 Apr 18, 2013
Why?
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Therefore you see the proof that something or someone created the universe. It had to be no other way for it to happen.
KJV

United States

#874 Apr 18, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, we understand your claim. Now *prove* that there is something outside of the universe. Under *your* definition, the universe is 'all there is--all existence'. In that case, nothing can exist outside of the universe, by definition.
"nothing can exist outside of the universe, by definition."

By mans definition. But man doesn't know what God is made out of. Just as the car can't grasp what living tissue is.
KJV

United States

#875 Apr 18, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>This was pointed out to him on another thread. If his God thingy exists, whether there's a multiverse or just one universe, this God must be in it.

Instead we found out that KJV accepts and dismisses definitions as and when he sees fit.(shrug)
Right, I go around changing dictionary all the time.

"The Universe is commonly defined as the totality of existence, including planets, stars, galaxies, the contents of intergalactic space, and ALL matter and energy.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe

Translate universe | into French | into German |into Italian | into Spanish
Definition of universe
noun
1 (the universe) ALL existing matter and space considered as a whole; the cosmos. The universe is believed to be at least 10 billion light years in diameter and contains a vast number of galaxies; it has been expanding since its creation in the Big Bang about 13 billion years ago.

Origin:
late Middle English: from Old French univers or Latin universum, neuter of universus 'combined into one, whole', from uni-'one'+ versus 'turned'(past participle of vertere)

universe in other Oxford dictionaries
Definition of universe in the US English dictionary

http://www.definitions.net/definition/univers...

universe, existence, creation, world, cosmos, macrocosm(noun)
EVERYTHING that exists ANYWHERE
"they study the evolution of the universe"; "the biggest tree in existence.

http://i.word.com/idictionary/universe

Main Entry: uni·verse
Pronunciation:\ˈyü-nə-ˌvə rs\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin universum, from neuter ofuniversus entire, whole, from uni-+versus turned toward, from past participle of vertere to turn — more at worth
Date: 14th century
1 : the whole body of things and phenomena observed or postulated :cosmos: as a : a systematic whole held to arise by and persist through the direct intervention of divine power b : the world of human experience c (1): the ENTIRE celestial cosmos (2): milky way galaxy (3):an aggregate of stars comparable to the Milky Way galaxy 2 : a distinct field or province of thought or reality that forms a closed system or self-inclusive and independent organization 3 : population 4 : a set that contains ALL elements relevant to a particular discussion or problem 5 : a great number or quantity <a large enough universe of stocks … to choose from — G. B. Clairmont>"
KJV

United States

#876 Apr 18, 2013
Lincoln wrote:
So far no scientific proof of atheism.
We do see agnostics-atheists whatever, complaining when others post on their sacred threads.
LOL
KJV

United States

#877 Apr 18, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>Your Bible says you should worship in private why don't you?

Do you need that cleric to explain the unexplainable?

At what point in time did you decide that you were totally unable to think?

rationalizing that only religion could solve those unanswered questions your mind was simply incapable of retaining any information unless it was told to you by others claiming to 'know' the .
Unknowable

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, "yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up must come down, down, down. Amen!" If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”~Dan Barker, ex-preacher
"Your Bible says you should worship in private why don't you?"

It also says that when ever two or more are gathered in my name I will be there.
KJV

United States

#878 Apr 18, 2013
Amused wrote:
<quoted text>Well, duh. Atheism is the default position unless and until someone who makes a positive claim that a supernatural being exists puts forward some credible evidence tending to prove that claim.
"ATHEISM IS A RELIGION as deemed by the courts.
John Calvert, a lawyer and intelligent design proponent declared:

The Seventh Judicial Circuit of the Court of Appeals of the United States held that ATHEISM IS A RELIGION. Therefore, it cannot be promoted by a public school. Currently, public schools are often unwittingly promoting atheism through a dogmatic and uncritical teaching of materialistic theories of origins.[15]"
Lincoln

United States

#879 Apr 18, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
"ATHEISM IS A RELIGION as deemed by the courts.
John Calvert, a lawyer and intelligent design proponent declared:
The Seventh Judicial Circuit of the Court of Appeals of the United States held that ATHEISM IS A RELIGION. Therefore, it cannot be promoted by a public school. Currently, public schools are often unwittingly promoting atheism through a dogmatic and uncritical teaching of materialistic theories of origins.[15]"
The US courts are not the last word on definition of atheism as many posters are from the United Kingdom.

Doubt if atheism is being taught in the public schools.
Would imagine Red State America has many schools promoting Christianity...just saying

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