A Proof That God Exists

Since: Feb 13

El Monte, CA

#347 Apr 8, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
http://jesusneverexisted.com/
Here's something else you might find interesting
MITHRAS = CHRISTIANITY?
This religion, cloaked in mystery and secrecy, has captivated the imaginations of scholars for generations. Many facts discovered sheds vital light on the cultural dynamics that led to the rise of Christianity. The National Geographic Society’s book “Great Religions of the World,” page 309 writes; “By Jesus’ time, East and West had mingled here for three centuries. Down columns of boulevards walked Roman soldiers loyal to the Persian god Mithras.” Mithras was a Persian deity. He was also the most widely venerated god in the Roman Empire at the time of Jesus. The Catholic Encyclopedia as well as the early Church Fathers found this religion of Mithras very disturbing, as there are so many similarities between the two religions, as follows:
1) Hundreds of years before Jesus, according to the Mithraic religion, three Wise Men of Persia came to visit the baby savior-god Mithra, bring him gifts of gold, myrrh and frankincense.
2) Mithra was born on December 25 as told in the “Great Religions of the World”, page 330; “…it was the winter solstice celebrated by ancients as the birthday of Mithraism’s sun god”.
3) According to Mithraism, before Mithra died on a cross, he celebrated a “Last Supper with his twelve disciples, who represented the twelve signs of the zodiac.
4) After the death of Mithra, his body was laid to rest in a rock tomb.
5) Mithra had a celibate priesthood.
6) Mithra ascended into heaven during the spring (Passover) equinox (the time when the sun crosses the equator making night and day of equal length).
As you can now see, Christianity derived many of its essential elements from the ancient religion of Mithraism. Mithraism became intertwined with the cult of Jesus to form what is known today as “Christianity.”
Although literary sources on this religion are sparse, an abundance of material evidence exists in the many Mithraic temples and artifacts that archaeologists have found scattered throughout the Roman Empire, from England in the north and west to Palestine in the south and east.
The temples were usually built underground in caves, which are filled with an extremely elaborate iconography (illustrating by pictures, figures and images). There were many hundreds of Mithraic temples in the Roman Empire, the greatest concentrations have been found in the city of Rome itself.
MITHRAS = CHRISTIANITY?
http://jdstone.org/cr/files/mithraschristiani...
-------

Yes Inhotep, Mithras = Christianity in more than it is necessary to
criple the Christian claims of authenticity of the religion. BTW, I have read this link more than several times in the past. I have just read it again. Thank you.
Imhotep

Winter Garden, FL

#348 Apr 8, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
-------
Yes Inhotep, Mithras = Christianity in more than it is necessary to
criple the Christian claims of authenticity of the religion. BTW, I have read this link more than several times in the past. I have just read it again. Thank you.
You are most welcome.
I have lots of excellent links loaded with great sources that I use quite frequently

I find religion organized religion a.k.a. organized superstition rather dangerous especially in a nuclear armed world.

Faith may not move mountains but it certainly can move skyscrapers.

Since: Dec 10

Fogelsville, PA

#349 Apr 8, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
-----
And your idea that the universe has caused itself into existence, do you think it flies? Balderdash!
What evidence do you have that the universe was caused?

Oh, and by the way... I never said the universe caused itself into existance. For you to claim that I did is at best dishonest, although not surprising.

Since: Dec 10

Fogelsville, PA

#350 Apr 8, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
----------
You are all wrong as usual. I demand no one to follow me. We are forbidden to proselytize. Atheists are the ones who even go hostile
when theists do quite on their God and turn to Atheism.
To the first clause above you are wrong. God is not matter.
To the second clause I'll give you the point. God has no beginning.
To the third clause, wrong again. God is not matter.
So you are claiming that non-matter created matter....from...? LOL!!!!!

You're getting deeper, and deeper!!

Oh, and I did not say that anyone had to follow YOU. I said that you propose rules that everyone else must follow, except you and your "god". That's called special pleading, and is a logical fallacy.

Since: Dec 10

Fogelsville, PA

#351 Apr 8, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
-----
"Here are the rules that you must follow... But I don't have to follow them." That's an embarrassing lying statement. You yourself
know that I have never said that. You are simply putting words in my mouth wich were never in my mind. No wonder the username you have chosen for yourself. At least watch for your credibility. Ohter people are reading your posts.
In post number seven, you said: "something can never be the creator of itself"
Now, you claim that this creator has always been. You offer no explaination for that, or how that could be. You claim that the universe had to have had a begining, but not your "creator". You go on to claim that your creator is not matter, but created matter. This is one of the most blatant cases of special pleading I have ever seen!!

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#352 Apr 8, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
A word about plagiarism
In a public forum like Topix it is irrelevant.
Plagiarism is defined as the highest form of flattery - Provided you are not attempting to earn money off of someone else's thoughts Or research.
If this occurs thou shalt be introduced to thy Holy court system Courtesy of a lawyer For the plaintiff.
Now for those sticklers who insist on sources it isn't very hard to scan Bing or Google for a word or phrase. I prefer the sources and where these 'sources' got their information, I want all details not just one.
We are not writing research papers here or selling anything. Entertainment only
Much ado over nothing regarding spelling
Spell Checker
Eye halve a spelling checker
It came with my pea sea
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss Steaks eye kin knot sea.
Eye strike a key and type a word
And weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.
As soon as a mist ache is maid
it nose bee fore two long
And eye can put the error rite
its rare lea ever wrong.
Eye have run this poem threw it
I am shore your pleased two no
its letter perfect awl the weigh
my checker tolled me sew.
----------
"Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe."
The issue with plagiarism on Topix isn't so much a legal one--that would be copyright infringement--as of intellectual integrity., and when I call someone on it, the tone is more along the lines of "you're not fooling anyone" than anything else. Knowing that plagiarism will almost always be noticed and pointed out in the most embarrassing way possible encourages people to write their own material. I, for one, find it very hard to take people who can't do that seriously.

Writing just isn't that hard. Thoughts cross your mind and you write them down. If the quality of your writing is important to you, you might follow up with a little editing. But when a writer relies so much on copy/past or outright plagiarism, the whole forum process grinds to a screeching halt. there's no real back and forth, only one writer erecting artificial hurdles for others to clear before any real discussion can begin.

It can be frustrating when so few on the forum write anything worthy of a response. I like to write. That's what I'm here for. But I was fresh ideas to write about, not the same tired stuff that we've seen at least a hundred times. I can go for days here without reading a truly original thought. I think that's sad.
Imhotep

Winter Garden, FL

#354 Apr 8, 2013
NightSerf wrote:
<quoted text>
The issue with plagiarism on Topix isn't so much a legal one--that would be copyright infringement--as of intellectual integrity., and when I call someone on it, the tone is more along the lines of "you're not fooling anyone" than anything else. Knowing that plagiarism will almost always be noticed and pointed out in the most embarrassing way possible encourages people to write their own material. I, for one, find it very hard to take people who can't do that seriously.
Writing just isn't that hard. Thoughts cross your mind and you write them down. If the quality of your writing is important to you, you might follow up with a little editing. But when a writer relies so much on copy/past or outright plagiarism, the whole forum process grinds to a screeching halt. there's no real back and forth, only one writer erecting artificial hurdles for others to clear before any real discussion can begin.
It can be frustrating when so few on the forum write anything worthy of a response. I like to write. That's what I'm here for. But I was fresh ideas to write about, not the same tired stuff that we've seen at least a hundred times. I can go for days here without reading a truly original thought. I think that's sad.
Yes I agree with you
so eloquently stated I admire your writing skills.

We live in the copy paste world where everything is fast and has to be faster at all times.

I avoid providing endless streams of sources.
Honestly I'm just too lazy old and lazy at that!
I was on the dock when Columbus left Espana!

I examine the content of material, Capture the Meat of the article, pop into the forum, if someone is that interested about it I can provide sources because I really thrive on information it's always fascinated me.

For me this is the exciting part now we have a conversation going willing to debate lucidly about what was posted free of vulgarity insults and the usual pabulum we find in these forums titled atheist anything.

I see you as as a person of great compassion

Que larga vida y prosperidad ;)
Imhotep

Parrish, FL

#355 Apr 8, 2013
NightSerf wrote:
<quoted text>
The issue with plagiarism on Topix isn't so much a legal one--that would be copyright infringement--as of intellectual integrity., and when I call someone on it, the tone is more along the lines of "you're not fooling anyone" than anything else. Knowing that plagiarism will almost always be noticed and pointed out in the most embarrassing way possible encourages people to write their own material. I, for one, find it very hard to take people who can't do that seriously.
Writing just isn't that hard. Thoughts cross your mind and you write them down. If the quality of your writing is important to you, you might follow up with a little editing. But when a writer relies so much on copy/past or outright plagiarism, the whole forum process grinds to a screeching halt. there's no real back and forth, only one writer erecting artificial hurdles for others to clear before any real discussion can begin.
It can be frustrating when so few on the forum write anything worthy of a response. I like to write. That's what I'm here for. But I was fresh ideas to write about, not the same tired stuff that we've seen at least a hundred times. I can go for days here without reading a truly original thought. I think that's sad.
It's a shame you and I share more or less the same thoughts on religion or at least I assume so

What a delightful conversation you and I could have great debate great fun great entertainment

Unfortunately and as you stated sadly this element is vacant in the topix environment

Here we are faced with a collection of religious addicted people - people who really don't think - no research skills and have never read their Bible

I'm not an atheist I've always been a secular humanist ultraliberal to a T

I've traveled is extensively and enjoyed many cultures around our world

Life is fascinating if you give it a chance and don't waste a moment on fantasy

Postscript we visited Egypt to years ago
The valley of the Kings is simply stunning
Humorous note time
An obvious Christian in our tour group Queried the tour guide about Moses

Wait for it

His reply
Moses is a Christian legend and not part of Egyptian history Christianity is based on RA the sun God according to the guide

I almost split my gut laughing

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#356 Apr 8, 2013
NightSerf wrote:
<quoted text>
One of the times that I backed up coorections with links, I was accused of changing the posts before I did so. That made me laugh and laugh... some of our theist friends can be so silly.
In their deep need to be >>right<< and their even deeper anger at "how dare we disrespect their god", they often go off before they are ready.

Or even before they've managed to think a complete thought.

... or thoughts of any kind, for that matter.

You are correct: it is silly.

As in PeeWee Herman silly.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#357 Apr 8, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
The Primal Cause aka the Creator was not caused.
1) Prove this "primal cause" exists.

2) prove it >>has<< to exist

3) prove it was uncaused (as soon as you prove it's real)

4) prove the universe had to be caused

You have failed at each of these 4 points so far.

Care to try again?

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#358 Apr 8, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
-----
And if it was caused by something outside of the universe and it was not the Primal Cause aka the Creator, keep going: What could it
have been?
"something outside the universe" is meaningless.

If it is outside? By definition it is not INSIDE, is it?

If it's not inside? It cannot have any impact on the universe.

Nice try-- but flawed nonetheless.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#359 Apr 8, 2013
NightSerf wrote:
<quoted text>
The issue with plagiarism on Topix isn't so much a legal one--that would be copyright infringement--as of intellectual integrity., and when I call someone on it, the tone is more along the lines of "you're not fooling anyone" than anything else. Knowing that plagiarism will almost always be noticed and pointed out in the most embarrassing way possible encourages people to write their own material. I, for one, find it very hard to take people who can't do that seriously.
Writing just isn't that hard. Thoughts cross your mind and you write them down. If the quality of your writing is important to you, you might follow up with a little editing. But when a writer relies so much on copy/past or outright plagiarism, the whole forum process grinds to a screeching halt. there's no real back and forth, only one writer erecting artificial hurdles for others to clear before any real discussion can begin.
It can be frustrating when so few on the forum write anything worthy of a response. I like to write. That's what I'm here for. But I was fresh ideas to write about, not the same tired stuff that we've seen at least a hundred times. I can go for days here without reading a truly original thought. I think that's sad.
Thank you for reminding me why >>I<< started out too-- to polish my writing skills, and to hone my ability to translate my ideas and thoughts into words, in a reasonably comprehensible way.

I really need to get back to those roots, and quit being a pundit--even though being a pundit is easier and more short-term rewarding.

... heh.

But here's a purely writing exercise you might enjoy-- and I hope contribute to. I didn't start it, but I like the notion behind it, myself.

" http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T... ;

Cheers, mate! You are a credit to the human race.
:D
IRYW

Allentown, PA

#360 Apr 8, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
-------
No, you guys love to claim that God's existence is impossible.
Strawman. Red herring. Ad hominem. Triple play!
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
Therefore, the burden of proof is upon your shoulders.
LOL
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
I have proven by Logic that something cannot cause itself into existence.
Twit. Not only are you using circular reasoning, you fail to support your premises and inferences, making your 'proof' laughable.
Shibolet wrote:
<. Now, go ahead and prove that something can cause itself.
Fallacy of false dilemma. Failure to define terms.

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#361 Apr 8, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for reminding me why >>I<< started out too-- to polish my writing skills, and to hone my ability to translate my ideas and thoughts into words, in a reasonably comprehensible way.
I really need to get back to those roots, and quit being a pundit--even though being a pundit is easier and more short-term rewarding.
... heh.
But here's a purely writing exercise you might enjoy-- and I hope contribute to. I didn't start it, but I like the notion behind it, myself.
" http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T... ;
Cheers, mate! You are a credit to the human race.
:D
Cool project, and I like your contributions. Let me mull it over for a bit (the idea, not the washwater wine) and see what I can come up with.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#362 Apr 8, 2013
NightSerf wrote:
<quoted text>
Cool project, and I like your contributions. Let me mull it over for a bit (the idea, not the washwater wine) and see what I can come up with.
:)

Anything biblical, re-cast in a modern light with modern ethics/morality, ought to do quite well, I think.

Need not even be overtly humorous. But I would see humor in re-writing biblical ideas in light of modern ideas.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#363 Apr 9, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
------
The universe is evidence for the existence of God. Prove to me that it caused itself into existence and I will quit God.
No, the universe is evidence for the existence of the universe. The default answer is not "an invisible magical Jewish wizard didit", the default answer is "We don't know yet. Let's see what we can find out."

Then the fundies act like big fat juicy massively dishonest hypocrites by claiming the universe "must" have a cause but their cause does not. When in actual fact it may be that their god does indeed have a cause. Or they could be right. Or they could be totally wrong because if God doesn't need a cause then neither does the universe.

Cue all sorts of argument from incredulity and "logic" arguments based on zero evidence and flawed premises which they can't back up.

Again, very Aristotelian thinking. Thinking which we have known to be wrong for nearly 2,000 years.

Since: Feb 13

El Monte, CA

#364 Apr 9, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
You are most welcome.
I have lots of excellent links loaded with great sources that I use quite frequently
I find religion organized religion a.k.a. organized superstition rather dangerous especially in a nuclear armed world.
Faith may not move mountains but it certainly can move skyscrapers.
----

One thing I tell you now: You have finally found something to be in tune with me. These last couple of posts I find nothing to disagree with you.

Since: Feb 13

El Monte, CA

#365 Apr 9, 2013
The serpent was right wrote:
<quoted text>
What evidence do you have that the universe was caused?
Oh, and by the way... I never said the universe caused itself into existance. For you to claim that I did is at best dishonest, although not surprising.
--------

Most atheists claim that the BB caused the universe; especially after 1922 when LeMaitre came up with that theory. Then, what's the
difference between causing itself into existence and never had a beginning? That's the same to me.

Since: Feb 13

El Monte, CA

#366 Apr 9, 2013
The serpent was right wrote:
<quoted text>
So you are claiming that non-matter created matter....from...? LOL!!!!!
You're getting deeper, and deeper!!
Oh, and I did not say that anyone had to follow YOU. I said that you propose rules that everyone else must follow, except you and your "god". That's called special pleading, and is a logical fallacy.
----

And you are getting shallower and shallower. How could the Primal Cause be matter to create matter if matter had to be created for being unable to cause itself into existence?

Since: Feb 13

El Monte, CA

#367 Apr 9, 2013
The serpent was right wrote:
<quoted text>
In post number seven, you said: "something can never be the creator of itself"
Now, you claim that this creator has always been. You offer no explaination for that, or how that could be. You claim that the universe had to have had a begining, but not your "creator". You go on to claim that your creator is not matter, but created matter. This is one of the most blatant cases of special pleading I have ever seen!!
-------

Here's again for the 35th time: If the Primal Mover was matter He would have to be created or caused to exist. Since He is no matter
He was not created or caused to exist. I am very patient with atheists. If you still need another 35 times let me know.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Atheism Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News "Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really T... (Jan '12) 38 min Superwilly 79,767
News People's forum - Get off the fence of religious... (May '10) 2 hr Eagle 12 - 36
News Atheism, for Good Reason, Fears Questions (Jun '09) 6 hr Science 32,576
News Atheist inmate wins right to practice his faith... (Aug '15) Sep 16 blacklagoon 3 91
How To Get To Heaven When You Die (Jan '17) Sep 15 xfrodobagginsx 101
News Atheist billboards to mock Romney, Obama faith (Aug '12) Sep 15 superwilly 47
what science will NEVER be able to prove Sep 15 Me _ Myself _ I 8
More from around the web