The tyranny of religion and the freedom of atheism

Jan 15, 2014 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Examiner.com

On occasion, the atheist podcast and radio show " Reasonable Doubts " will feature an interview with a high-profile atheist who was formerly a religious activist.

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“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#163 Feb 1, 2014
TheJackelantern wrote:
<quoted text>
If you don't think it was accurate, show us where in the constitution it mentions "Christianity", or God for that matter.. It doesn't... What is a constitution that has no mention of such and builds a wall between church and state? It's secular stupid!.. Your arguments are nothing more than pleading appeals to ignorance.. There was no "Christian Nation". And I will take Thomas Jefferson's word over yours... Yeah, an actual founding father, not you..
<quoted text>
Just reading Thomas Jefferson's own letter on separation of church and state was more than enough... You're an idiot, and no the founding fathers who made this country did not have to do shit in providing a pro / con argument.. They knew what kind of government they wanted to build regardless if you believe it biased or not. Your argument is like pleading they were prejudice if they had said this nation wasn't founded on Islam, or Greek Mythology. And do tell us why the founding fathers who were largely deists would claim Christianity as the foundation of their government? Are you stupid or trolling with woeful ignorance?
Whoa.....the poster made a post to prove his feelings that you agreed with that "As the government of the United States of America is not founded in any sense on the Christian religion..." represents explicitly how all the settlers to the founding fathers and politicians felt EXACTLY as you two mean it from that sentence. You're both fricking uneducated biased idiots.
The fact is what you want to believe isn't true. The fact is that most of the settlers in the thirteen colonies that came here to get away from religious persecution were in fact deists of varying Christian rooted beliefs. The Puritans and Quakers are good examples. The first laws instituted here were English laws that were very Bible based in the ten commandments. Yes their were laws not Bible based obviously. But laws from slavery, indentured servants, witch craft, bigamy, adultery, etc, etc were all Bible based laws directly and indirectly influenced. The value of placing one's hand on the Bible was thought to prove one's honesty for a few centuries here. Politicians opened and closed with prayers for a couple centuries. Kids were taught the Bible in schools for a couple centuries.
America was heavily influenced by Christianity in all walks of life for the first two centuries. Other nations and countries came to visualize and believe America was a Christian nation based on Christianity.
The US government wasn't directly founded upon the Christian religion. But politicians mostly deists with a Christian religion lean ran the purported "non-secular" US government for the first two centuries strong. They established the separation of church and state so that we wouldn't become as England had became, a church based government. And they succeeded. To this day we have no church based government.
But the phrase "As the government of the United States of America is not founded in any sense on the Christian religion..." It's true to the US not being a church ran government, but it's not true in a literal meaning of how it was wrote. Sad you can't see the difference and that's your bad, not mine :)

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#164 Feb 1, 2014
TheJackelantern wrote:
You're an idiot, and no the founding fathers who made this country did not have to do shit in providing a pro / con argument..
Speaking of trolling fricking ignorance based in deep bias and prejudice...lol I stated the below of the poster who pasted the information you fricking idiot, not the founding fathers or the writer of the ToT. You have a unbalanced need to take what I said to areas it never should have been taken to. Talk about fricking pathetic ignorance.....

"An educated person pasting this reference from that treaty... "As the government of the United States of America is not founded in any sense on the Christian religion..." would have included both pro and con information so they wouldn't appear prejudiced and or biased in the info they were providing. As you didn't do."

In the above I said what an EDUCATED person would have done when pasting that information on a computer compared to what a biased and prejudiced person would have done and did do in pasting the info without information on the treaty. Like the fact that this phrase was used one single solitary time in a legal document since the birth of this country. Try a little less bias and prejudice is my suggestion.
Amused

Lowell, MA

#165 Feb 1, 2014
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
...
The fact is what you want to believe isn't true. The fact is that most of the settlers in the thirteen colonies that came here to get away from religious persecution were in fact deists of varying Christian rooted beliefs....
That is a sentence that is jaw-dropping in its utter lack of comprehension of the terms it uses. Deists are people who believe in creator god that, having created,takes no further role in the operation of the universe. Hence, deists do not believe in a god that intervenes in the affairs of the created, such as sending a savior to redeem a fallen mankind. "Deists of various christian rooted beliefs" is an oxymoron. With this expression of your utter ignorance, you have lost any shred of credibility. You are just another "liar for jesus" with a self-granted license to pull things out of your arse and present them as if they were received truth. In that, you truly are "No Surprise".

Since: Nov 12

Salem, MA

#166 Feb 1, 2014
You're both fricking uneducated biased idiots.
So says the kid who can't present the founding fathers stating otherwise, or in the constitution for that matter. The only uneducated moron here is you sir. You provided no evidence to even support your position, and the worst part is that you have no education on the differences between what a Deist is, and what a Christian is.. They are not founded on Christianity, and deism is the step closer to Panentheism.. A step further an they would be Pantheists.., none of which have anything to do with "Christianity".:
Deism (Listeni/&#712;di&#720 ;.&#618;z&#601;m/[1][2 ] or /&#712;de&#618;.&# 618;z&#601;m/) is the belief that reason and observation of the natural world are sufficient to determine the existence of a Creator, accompanied with the rejection of revelation and authority as a source of religious knowledge.[3][4][5][6][7] Deism gained prominence in the 17th and 18th centuries during the Age of Enlightenment—especially in Britain, France, Germany, and the United States—among intellectuals raised as Christians who believed in one god, but found fault with organized religion and did not believe in supernatural events such as miracles, the inerrancy of scriptures, or the Trinity.[8]
You just got served!...
The first laws instituted here were English laws that were very Bible based in the ten commandments.
No they were not.. The Laws were based on British common law prior to religious rule. The laws themselves are based on Near East law givers to whom are represented on your Supreme Court Building. There are 18 of them..

Menes (c. 3100 B.C.)
Hammurabi (c. 1792-1750 B.C.)
Moses (c. 2250 B.C.)
Solomon (c. 992-953 B.C.)
Lycurgus (c. 800 B.C.)
Solon (c. 638-559 B.C.)
Draco (late 600s B.C.)
Confucius (551-479 B.C.)
Octavian(63 B.C.-14 A.D.)
Justinian (c. 483-565)
Muhammad (570-632)
Charlemagne (c. 742-814)
King John (1166-1216)
Louis IX (1213-1270)
Hugo Grotius (1583-1645)
William Blackstone (1723-1780)
John Marshall (1755-1835)
Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

note what exactly the sculptor of the Supreme court had stated about presenting these 18 law givers in which he carved into the supreme court walls. The following secular reason was here forth given by Herman A. MacNeil:
"Law as an element of civilization was normally and naturally derived or inherited in this country from former civilizations. The 'Eastern Pediment' of the Supreme Court Building suggests therefore the treatment of such fundamental laws and precepts as are derived from the East." Herman A. MacNeil
America was heavily influenced by Christianity in all walks of life for the first two centuries. Other nations and countries came to visualize and believe America was a Christian nation based on Christianity.
And just so you know, the 10 commandments doesn't come from "Christianity".. Christianity didn't even exist in that time period. Christianity is simply a copy paste cult riding on the back of others. Islam and Christianity are new religions that developed out of the geopolitical environment.. So even trying to claim the ten commandments is a joke because those weren't based on Christianity or even Judaism because those laws were copied from far older religions..

Since: Nov 12

Salem, MA

#167 Feb 1, 2014
Oh look, No Surprise gets owned in the subject and then he marks posts that put him in his place as spam ect... That's literally the best he can do here..

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#168 Feb 2, 2014
Amused wrote:
<quoted text>
That is a sentence that is jaw-dropping in its utter lack of comprehension of the terms it uses. Deists are people who believe in creator god that, having created,takes no further role in the operation of the universe. Hence, deists do not believe in a god that intervenes in the affairs of the created, such as sending a savior to redeem a fallen mankind. "Deists of various christian rooted beliefs" is an oxymoron. With this expression of your utter ignorance, you have lost any shred of credibility. You are just another "liar for jesus" with a self-granted license to pull things out of your arse and present them as if they were received truth. In that, you truly are "No Surprise".
You're educationally disadvantaged for some reason I'm not sure of. You have a search bar on your pc or laptop as most. Why don't you use it more often?
As I stated correctly because I have read of this topic before of Christian deists, most of the people in the original thirteen colonies were deists or to be more precise, Christian deists.

You have set deism to mean a specific thing and not applicable to anything else and that's your bad proving your inability to do some actual research before making a fool of yourself. For example....
http://christiandeism.com/
Christian Deism is a natural religion that maintains a firm belief in God the Creator; and strives to follow the natural commandments of God, as taught by one of the greatest teachers of natural religion, Jesus of Nazareth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Deism
Christian deism, in the philosophy of religion, is a standpoint that branches from Christianity. It refers to a deist who believes in the moral teachings—but not divinity—of Jesus. Corbett and Corbett (1999) cite John Adams and Thomas Jefferson as exemplars.[1] The earliest-found usage of the term Christian deism in print in English is in 1738 in a book by Thomas Morgan,[2] appearing about ten times by 1800.[3] The term Christian deist is found as early as 1722,[4][5] in Christianity vindicated against infidelity by Daniel Waterland (he calls it a misuse of language), and adopted later by Matthew Tindal in his 1730 work, Christianity as Old as the Creation.[6]
http://www.christiandeistfellowship.com/chris...
Christian Deists believe that God does take an ongoing interest in the world and humanity but God does not control the world or humanity. Human beings are "free agents in a free world." A "free agent" is someone who has authority and ability to choose his/her actions and who may make mistakes. A "free world" is one which ordinarily operates as it is designed to operate but failures and accidents may occur.

Christian deism is opposed to the doctrine of predestination in which everything that happens is thought to be "the will of God." John Calvin was a proponent of the theory of predestination in which God allegedly determines everything that happens, whether good or bad. For example, this theory is heard when a person is killed in an automobile accident and someone says, "God must have a purpose in this." Christian Deists reject this kind of belief.
Amused

Lowell, MA

#169 Feb 3, 2014
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
You're educationally disadvantaged for some reason I'm not sure of. You have a search bar on your pc or laptop as most. Why don't you use it more often?
As I stated correctly because I have read of this topic before of Christian deists, most of the people in the original thirteen colonies were deists or to be more precise, Christian deists.
You have set deism to mean a specific thing and not applicable to anything else and that's your bad proving your inability to do some actual research before making a fool of yourself. For example....
http://christiandeism.com/
Christian Deism is a natural religion that maintains a firm belief in God the Creator; and strives to follow the natural commandments of God, as taught by one of the greatest teachers of natural religion, Jesus of Nazareth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Deism
Christian deism, in the philosophy of religion, is a standpoint that branches from Christianity. It refers to a deist who believes in the moral teachings—but not divinity—of Jesus. Corbett and Corbett (1999) cite John Adams and Thomas Jefferson as exemplars.[1] The earliest-found usage of the term Christian deism in print in English is in 1738 in a book by Thomas Morgan,[2] appearing about ten times by 1800.[3] The term Christian deist is found as early as 1722,[4][5] in Christianity vindicated against infidelity by Daniel Waterland (he calls it a misuse of language), and adopted later by Matthew Tindal in his 1730 work, Christianity as Old as the Creation.[6]
http://www.christiandeistfellowship.com/chris...
Christian Deists believe that God does take an ongoing interest in the world and humanity but God does not control the world or humanity. Human beings are "free agents in a free world." A "free agent" is someone who has authority and ability to choose his/her actions and who may make mistakes. A "free world" is one which ordinarily operates as it is designed to operate but failures and accidents may occur.
Christian deism is opposed to the doctrine of predestination in which everything that happens is thought to be "the will of God." John Calvin was a proponent of the theory of predestination in which God allegedly determines everything that happens, whether good or bad. For example, this theory is heard when a person is killed in an automobile accident and someone says, "God must have a purpose in this." Christian Deists reject this kind of belief.
Christian deism is an oxymoron.

Since: Nov 12

Salem, MA

#170 Feb 3, 2014
Christian Deism is a natural religion that maintains a firm belief in God the Creator; and strives to follow the natural commandments of God, as taught by one of the greatest teachers of natural religion, Jesus of Nazareth.
Your link is not an academic Citation.. The belief of a Creator GOD does not stem from "Christianity",, Even the Moon God Sin long preexisted even Judaism..And you are only discussing common format of religions in which have a deity in general.. You're trying to claim that Christianity was magically the source origin of Deism and other religions when we know that is laughably bull shit.. Christianity and Deism together would be literal contradiction, or an Oxymoron.. Hence the people you are citing are morons, or a Christian sect trying to usurp Deism.. If you also read the Fount of Knowledge, you also have Orthodox Christianity trying to usurp Pantheism to which is also a laughable joke.. Thomas Jefferson was not a Christian.. He was a deist who agreed with the "Moral teachings"... He didn't actually believe Jesus was a son of GOD or even likely real. He comes closer to the likes of the "House of Yahweh" if anything in that regard.
http://www.christiandeistfellowship.com/chris ...
Christian Deists believe that God does take an ongoing interest in the world and humanity but God does not control the world or humanity. Human beings are "free agents in a free world." A "free agent" is someone who has authority and ability to choose his/her actions and who may make mistakes. A "free world" is one which ordinarily operates as it is designed to operate but failures and accidents may occur.
Anyone who's spent more than 20 minutes reading the Bible will know this cannot be supported.. It's a total contradiction of what is actually written in the bible, and that even includes the Thomas Jefferson's version.. This hole idea of Christian Deism is a new thing, or idea.. And one I suspect invented to claim that the founding fathers were magically "Christians" when they were not. If you think Thomas Jefferson what accepting Jesus as his lord savior, your seriously on crack.

Since: Nov 12

Salem, MA

#171 Feb 3, 2014
Just to give an example, you also have Christian atheism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheis...

So if I as an Atheist agree with some of the moral teachings of "Christ", does that make me a Christian Atheist? lol .. Christians or people love to jump of the bandwagon and usurp shit don't they? This is common practice since religion ever existed. Hence would not not consider Christian atheism to be an oxymoron? Well, it is just as much as is Christian deism.. So this pans out in 3 possible ways:

1. Christian's are trying to usurp Deism
2. Deists are trying to usurp Christianity
3. New cult trying to ride the back of both

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#172 Feb 4, 2014
Amused wrote:
<quoted text>
Christian deism is an oxymoron.
I agree, if you can show where the word deist had never had a Christian application. And you can't. As you and others did and proved, people(uninformed)think to be a deist means having a belief in a creator that has nothing to do with Christianity. The fact is that the total opposite is true. Christian deism isn't an oxymoron except to the uninformed.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#173 Feb 4, 2014
TheJackelantern wrote:
<quoted text>
Your link is not an academic Citation.. The belief of a Creator GOD does not stem from "Christianity",, Even the Moon God Sin long preexisted even Judaism..And you are only discussing common format of religions in which have a deity in general.. You're trying to claim that Christianity was magically the source origin of Deism and other religions when we know that is laughably bull shit.. Christianity and Deism together would be literal contradiction, or an Oxymoron.. Hence the people you are citing are morons, or a Christian sect trying to usurp Deism.. If you also read the Fount of Knowledge, you also have Orthodox Christianity trying to usurp Pantheism to which is also a laughable joke.. Thomas Jefferson was not a Christian.. He was a deist who agreed with the "Moral teachings"... He didn't actually believe Jesus was a son of GOD or even likely real. He comes closer to the likes of the "House of Yahweh" if anything in that regard.
<quoted text>
Anyone who's spent more than 20 minutes reading the Bible will know this cannot be supported.. It's a total contradiction of what is actually written in the bible, and that even includes the Thomas Jefferson's version.. This hole idea of Christian Deism is a new thing, or idea.. And one I suspect invented to claim that the founding fathers were magically "Christians" when they were not. If you think Thomas Jefferson what accepting Jesus as his lord savior, your seriously on crack.
You pasted the following of what I pasted from a link... "Christian Deism is a natural religion that maintains a firm belief in God the Creator; and strives to follow the natural commandments of God, as taught by one of the greatest teachers of natural religion, Jesus of Nazareth."
You than stated in reply... "The belief of a Creator GOD does not stem from "Christianity". My reference stated about "Christian Deism"(not just deism) and where it (Christian Deism)flowed from as it's called "Christian Deism", you know that word 'Christian' as in Christ? Your reference of a "creator god' had nothing to do with the actual comment you took of what I pasted. Do you understand that? The paste said nothing of a creator god stemming from Christianity. You made that implication on your own and it had nothing to do with what that paste actually stated. It spoke of "Christian Deism", not a "creator god" which could have a reference to any deist religion. Understand?

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#174 Feb 4, 2014
TheJackelantern wrote:
1. Christian's are trying to usurp Deism
2. Deists are trying to usurp Christianity
3. New cult trying to ride the back of both
You realize that there are a wide variety of so called "diests?" It seems the uninformed here think deism is a single solitary definition with no other applications to the word. Let me give you an update to some info to consider okay?

http://www.sbnr.org/varieties-and-categories-...

Classical Deism
This branch of Deism is the oldest and closest to the “textbook” definition of Deism. Most Classical Deists base their belief in God on reason, nature, and experience. Classical Deists tend to take a balanced approach to belief in that they are both critical of revealed religion, and they are promoters of reason and Deism. The Deism of Thomas Paine would be considered Classical Deism by most, but not all, Deists. Even among Classical Deists there exists wide variety of beliefs, and not all Classical Deists agree on either their beliefs or their approach to Deism. Contemporary Classical Deism is probably best represented by the World Union of Deists.

Modern Deism
Modern Deism is not universally recognized as a distinct branch of Deism, but the number of people who fall into this group is too large to ignore. Modern Deism is the term used by members of a group of websites that later became the Deist Alliance. Sites such as Modern Deism, Positive Deism, Dynamic Deism, Deist Information and PONDER (no longer active) began promoting a positive and constructive form of Deism in the early and mid-2000s to counter what they felt was an overly critical and negative approach to Deism found elsewhere....(more at link)

Pandeism and Panendeism
Pandeists, like Pantheists, believe that God and nature are the same thing. Panendeists believe that God both encompasses all of nature and transcends nature. The Panendeist community is small but quite active, and many of its members post a great deal of philosophical and scientific material on the Internet....(more at link)

Christian Deism
One could consider the works of some early Deists, such as Matthew Tindal, to be Christian Deism. Currently, John Lindell is recognized as the most prominent contemporary Christian
Deist. His Christian Deist Fellowship Website has been on the Internet in one form or another for 11 years. John believes that the human Jesus was a Deist, and he finds inspiration in his words.

Spiritual Deism
Spiritual-Deism (note the hyphen) is a long-standing Yahoo! discussion group. Members teach that “each person is an individualized expression of the Divine”. Spiritual-Deists believe in a personal God. The Spiritual-Deism discussion group tends to be politically active and socially conservative; there is a strong sense of cultural integrity and ethnic identity there, so it may not be everyone’s cup of tea.

Spiritual Deists, Deists who consider themselves spiritual but not religious, have not as yet formally established a separate branch of Deism. Any Deist from any branch of Deism might consider himself or herself a Spiritual Deist.

Unified Deism
Unified Deism is a recent phenomenon that grew out of Modern Deism. The author of this article is one of its founders. Unified Deism is an attempt to unite the many branches of Deism and to provide some structure and organization to the promotion of Deism (not to organize Deism as a religion) in order to bring Deism into the mainstream...(more at link)

Several other subcategories of Deism exist: Amorian Deism, Pagan Deism, Gnostic Deism, Sunny Deism, and other small subcategories. A Web search might reveal even more. Contemporary Deism has the benefit of many philosophical movements to draw upon since the Enlightenment. Transcendentalism comes to mind as a school of thought that has influenced many Deists. Intuition, inference, and imagination, as well as reason, have a place in today’s Deism. New forms of Deism spring up and fade away every day.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#175 Feb 4, 2014
TheJackelantern wrote:
Thomas Jefferson was not a Christian.. He was a deist who agreed with the "Moral teachings"... He didn't actually believe Jesus was a son of GOD or even likely real. He comes closer to the likes of the "House of Yahweh" if anything in that regard.
<quoted text>
Anyone who's spent more than 20 minutes reading the Bible will know this cannot be supported.. It's a total contradiction of what is actually written in the bible, and that even includes the Thomas Jefferson's version.. This hole idea of Christian Deism is a new thing, or idea.. And one I suspect invented to claim that the founding fathers were magically "Christians" when they were not. If you think Thomas Jefferson what accepting Jesus as his lord savior, your seriously on crack.
I know what Jefferson taught and believed. I know he wrote his own version of the Bible. Christian Deism came to be in the 1800s so it's been around for a bit. And I never said Jefferson accepted Jesus as the NT writes him to be. You imagined I said that, your bad.
Amused

Lowell, MA

#176 Feb 5, 2014
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
I know what Jefferson taught and believed. I know he wrote his own version of the Bible. Christian Deism came to be in the 1800s so it's been around for a bit. And I never said Jefferson accepted Jesus as the NT writes him to be. You imagined I said that, your bad.
If, as you say, some sort of "christian deism" came into being in the 1800's, then it follows logically that the founding fathers were not "christian deists". The revolution began in April 1775 at Lexington and Concord. The Declaration of Independence was signed July 4, 1776. Cornwallis surrendered to Washington at Yorktown on October 17, 1781, ending the Revolutionary War.The Constitution of the United States was ratified in 1790. By the time your supposed "christian deism" came into being, The United States had already been founded and its operating documents drafted by people who had never heard of the yet-to-be-invented "christian deism".

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#177 Feb 5, 2014
Amused wrote:
<quoted text>
If, as you say, some sort of "christian deism" came into being in the 1800's, then it follows logically that the founding fathers were not "christian deists". The revolution began in April 1775 at Lexington and Concord. The Declaration of Independence was signed July 4, 1776. Cornwallis surrendered to Washington at Yorktown on October 17, 1781, ending the Revolutionary War.The Constitution of the United States was ratified in 1790. By the time your supposed "christian deism" came into being, The United States had already been founded and its operating documents drafted by people who had never heard of the yet-to-be-invented "christian deism".
...and for anyone that wishes to argue Jefferson's stance on religion and government please absorb the following...
"To further quote Jefferson to put this in context, "I consider religion a supplement of law in the government of man." Jeffersonian Cyclopedia, Foley 1900 (#7242)."

You do know the following I pasted from the web correct?
"18th century...The 18th century lasted from January 1, 1701 to December 31, 1800 in the Gregorian calendar."
Just as we are in the 21st century now though we write for date 2000 and....fourteen for example.
Therefore if you look up the information you will see Christian Deism began in what one would call the 1700s if not earlier in the late 1600s.
Also, deism is a religious philosophy that has roots in how Christians considered God from as early as England in the mid 1600s.
From the web for those without understanding...
"Classical Deism was defined by Lord Herbert of Cherbury (d. 1648) and was one of the earliest proponents of Deism in England. In his book "De Veritate," (1624), he described the "Five Articles" of English Deists:

1. belief in the existence of a single supreme God
2. humanity's duty to revere God
3. linkage of worship with practical morality
4. God will forgive us if we repent and abandon our sins
5. good works will be rewarded (and punishment for evil) both in life and after death.

This is broadly the beliefs of Jefferson and Franklin as well. As Ben Franklin noted in a letter to Ezra Stiles in 1790 what Deism is all about, and speaks for this writer as well:

Here is my creed. I believe in One God, the Creator of the Universe. That he governs it by his Providence. That he ought to be worshipped. That the most acceptable Service we can render Him is doing good to his other children. That the soul of man is immortal and will be treated with justice in another life respecting its conduct in this. These I take to be the fundamental principles of all sound religion.
(Salisbury, Dorothy Cleaveland. "Religion: As the Leaders of this Nation Reveal It." Daughters of the American Revolution Vol.106 (1972): page 541.)

The Apostle Paul even agrees with Deism in Romans 1:20:

"For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse."

Since: Nov 12

Salem, MA

#178 Feb 5, 2014
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
...and for anyone that wishes to argue Jefferson's stance on religion and government please absorb the following...
"To further quote Jefferson to put this in context, "I consider religion a supplement of law in the government of man." Jeffersonian Cyclopedia, Foley 1900 (#7242)."
You do know the following I pasted from the web correct?
"18th century...The 18th century lasted from January 1, 1701 to December 31, 1800 in the Gregorian calendar."
Just as we are in the 21st century now though we write for date 2000 and....fourteen for example.
Therefore if you look up the information you will see Christian Deism began in what one would call the 1700s if not earlier in the late 1600s.
Also, deism is a religious philosophy that has roots in how Christians considered God from as early as England in the mid 1600s.
From the web for those without understanding...
"Classical Deism was defined by Lord Herbert of Cherbury (d. 1648) and was one of the earliest proponents of Deism in England. In his book "De Veritate," (1624), he described the "Five Articles" of English Deists:
1. belief in the existence of a single supreme God
2. humanity's duty to revere God
3. linkage of worship with practical morality
4. God will forgive us if we repent and abandon our sins
5. good works will be rewarded (and punishment for evil) both in life and after death.
This is where you inject your opinion... Cite the source, and where it says "Christian Deism", and where it talks about "Jesus".. The concepts you described above go back to even the Egyptians. Even Monotheism began in Egypt kiddo.
This is broadly the beliefs of Jefferson and Franklin as well. As Ben Franklin noted in a letter to Ezra Stiles in 1790 what Deism is all about, and speaks for this writer as well:
Here is my creed. I believe in One God, the Creator of the Universe.


So what, that doesn't make them "Christians"...
That he governs it by his Providence. That he ought to be worshipped. That the most acceptable Service we can render Him is doing good to his other children. That the soul of man is immortal and will be treated with justice in another life respecting its conduct in this.


Again nothing about Jesus here.. Please try again..

Since: Nov 12

Salem, MA

#179 Feb 5, 2014
And John Adams had this to say about "Christianity":
* I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved -- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!
-- John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, from George Seldes, The Great Quotations, also from James A Haught, ed, 2000 Years of Disbelief
* God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there never will be any liberal science in the world.
-- John Adams, "this awful blashpemy" that he refers to is the myth of the Incarnation of Christ, from Ira D Cardiff, What Great Men Think of Religion, quoted from James A Haught, ed, 2000 Years of Disbelief
* Numberless have been the systems of iniquity The most refined, sublime, extensive, and astonishing constitution of policy that ever was conceived by the mind of man was framed by the Romish clergy for the aggrandizement of their own Order They even persuaded mankind to believe, faithfully and undoubtingly, that God Almighty had entrusted them with the keys of heaven, whose gates they might open and close at pleasure ... with authority to license all sorts of sins and Crimes ... or withholding the rain of heaven and the beams of the sun; with the management of earthquakes, pestilence, and famine; nay, with the mysterious, awful, incomprehensible power of creating out of bread and wine the flesh and blood of God himself. All these opinions they were enabled to spread and rivet among the people by reducing their minds to a state of sordid ignorance and staring timidity, and by infusing into them a religious horror of letters and knowledge. Thus was human nature chained fast for ages in a cruel, shameful, and deplorable servitude....
-- John Adams, "A Dissertation on the Canon and the Feudal Law," printed in the Boston Gazette, August 1765
These I take to be the fundamental principles of all sound religion.
(Salisbury, Dorothy Cleaveland. "Religion: As the Leaders of this Nation Reveal It." Daughters of the American Revolution Vol.106 (1972): page 541.)
The Apostle Paul even agrees with Deism in Romans 1:20:
"For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse."
Furthermore we have the following:
"The founders of our nation were nearly all Infidels, and that of the presidents who had thus far been elected [Washington; Adams; Jefferson; Madison; Monroe; Adams; Jackson] not a one had professed a belief in Christianity....
"Among all our presidents from Washington downward, not one was a professor of religion, at least not of more than Unitarianism."
-- The Reverend Doctor Bird Wilson, an Episcopal minister in Albany, New York, in a sermon preached in October, 1831. One might expect a modern defender of the Evangelical to play with the meaning of "Christianity," making it refer only to a specific brand of orthodoxy, first sentence quoted in John E Remsberg, Six Historic Americans, second sentence quoted in Paul F Boller, George Washington & Religion, pp. 14-15
And:
Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind.
-- John Adams, "A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America" (1787-88), from Adrienne Koch, ed, The American Enlightenment: The Shaping of the American Experiment and a Free Society (1965) p. 258, quoted from Ed and Michael Buckner, "Quotations that Support the Separation of State and Church"
You can also visit here:
http://infidels.org/library/modern/ed_buckner...

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