Wiccan Atheists and Agnostics

Wiccan Atheists and Agnostics

There are 284 comments on the BellaOnline story from Aug 12, 2013, titled Wiccan Atheists and Agnostics. In it, BellaOnline reports that:

Can Wiccans also be atheists or agnostics? This may seem a strange question because the worship of the Lord and Lady is so central to many Wiccans' daily spiritual practice.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at BellaOnline.

C Shine

Barnardsville, NC

#41 Aug 15, 2013
EdSed wrote:
<quoted text>No. It is simply nuts to argue that belief in pixies (or whatever mythology) is just as reasonable as disbelief in what cannot be justified with reason and evidence.
I suppose some people who see themselves as atheist are interested in Wicca or other spiritual rhubarb. I suspect most non-believers here on Topix are simply uninterested in paganism or Wicca. We may feel drawn to offer criticism if it's placed on the Atheism Forum.
As long as religionists don’t display collective homophobia, anti-atheism or other prejudices; and as a religious group they don't politicise their religion with clerical privileges, dictats or 'teaching' regarding morality, politics, science, education or the law, then it’s simply someone else’s jibber-jabber.
Wiccans and Pagans seem relatively innocuous to me.
The link was merely auto cross-posted due to the key words in the article. There is no conspiracy to place pagan items in an atheist forum.
C Shine

Barnardsville, NC

#42 Aug 15, 2013
GilnoKoibito wrote:
<quoted text>
I very much understand the process of DDtM and having a personal connection with the Gods (for the last few years I have felt very drawn to Athena for instance.) I've been a practicing Wiccan for 8 years now and I've studied as much as I've been able to. However, I follow no set Wiccan tradition and have always considered myself an eclectic Wiccan. I have my own beliefs when it comes to divinity and have always seen it as some sort of greater power that we, as humans, can not completely understand (perhaps it is even intangible - something like what most people might consider magic or a life force) and so we break that down into something we can understand - male and female - and then further into specific Gods and Goddesses (and even into energies from plants and other living things; I rather like that sort of animistic view of spirit or Gods in every part of nature - sort of like many Shinto beliefs). Though I also see the Gods as each having their own personality and abilities. I see them as people, albeit a bit different than us of course. They can have flaws just as much as we can as well as having divine powers. It's of course my own theory on things, but to me, it makes sense and since I practice no particular tradition, there is no one to say whether I am wrong or right. Then again, when it comes to religion, I don't believe anyone has such a right. All religions are similar in some ways and yet different and it's my personal thought that they are that way because of how diverse we as humans are; we each need that variation, that something slightly different that cements our beliefs for us. I believe all religions are in some way connected and equal yet different.
I suppose in some ways, some could simply consider me as a general Pagan, but I have always felt more drawn to and closer to many aspects of Wicca. It was the first religion I felt truly connected to on a deeper level and so I still consider myself to be Wiccan, personally speaking anyway. I'm very much eclectic in my beliefs however and I am perfectly okay with that. If others just want to call me Pagan and not Wiccan, then so be it. But I still feel very much connected to Wicca specifically.
And as far as my recent, more agnostic, feelings, I don't see as how they can disqualify me any more than the fact that, over the years, I have practiced magick less and less. But I still believe how I believe, I don't think any God would cite me for my questioning either.
I am glad to hear that was part of your experience (DDM). I've unfortunately run across a fair amount of folks who thought that was coven work only, or just didn't really understand it or approach the practice and therefor in substitute only had these sort of abstract, Protestant background type of ideas about the Gods of Wicca. I appreciate that you are changing, I don't think Wicca is completely inflexible in many regards, and holds a lot of room for some complex and transitional insights about Divinity. The Universe is infinite and of course you are free to believe as you wish and approach it as you wish. I don't know if you are with a group or active in a greater Pagan community, I just think it helps with others who may be in similar circumstances, or those who are seeking a path to be clear about what Wicca does, and why.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#43 Aug 15, 2013
Pagan and Proud wrote:
<quoted text>the mental illness is refusing to admit that no evidence means there is no indication one way or the other. The answer can be positive or negative, meaning that their faith could actually be right OR wrong. Insisting that something doesn't exist without any actual evidence is as foolish as you pointing at others being for having faith.
Sorry, but when there is no evidence for god being real (or anything they say for that matter) its safe to assume that they are liars.

If you lok up the burden of proof, you will realise that this is logically consistent and water tight.

The burden of proof relies upon the idiot stupid enough to propose a god, based on no evidence whatsoever.

It always has and always will - you cannot "imagine" your way around logic.
C Shine

Barnardsville, NC

#44 Aug 15, 2013
Amused wrote:
<quoted text>
I find lots of things fulfilling. Without having to accept any nonsense or illogic to do so.
So you don't like art or beauty or spirituality or hobbies or sports or games. That's fine but why hate on people who do?
Amused

Merrimac, MA

#45 Aug 15, 2013
C Shine wrote:
<quoted text>
So you don't like art or beauty or spirituality or hobbies or sports or games. That's fine but why hate on people who do?
Think I a problem dyslexia you with have. Read what I wrote again. What part of "I find lots of things fulfilling" led you to believe that I have no hobbies, interests, etc. or don't like art or beauty? Are you really so wrapped up in trying to find hate that you are unable to comprehend what you read?

“I will not go quietly.”

Since: Feb 07

Indianapolis Indiana

#46 Aug 15, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, but when there is no evidence for god being real (or anything they say for that matter) its safe to assume that they are liars.
If you lok up the burden of proof, you will realise that this is logically consistent and water tight.
The burden of proof relies upon the idiot stupid enough to propose a god, based on no evidence whatsoever.
It always has and always will - you cannot "imagine" your way around logic.
No actually it's not. Any assumption calls for one to draw on evidence that simply does not exist. This isn't an either or binary, there is nothing logical about making assumptions based on nothing. The only legitimate answer to such a quandary is "I don't know", and you can leave the idiot statements to your mother.

“I will not go quietly.”

Since: Feb 07

Indianapolis Indiana

#47 Aug 15, 2013
Amused wrote:
<quoted text>
Think I a problem dyslexia you with have. Read what I wrote again. What part of "I find lots of things fulfilling" led you to believe that I have no hobbies, interests, etc. or don't like art or beauty? Are you really so wrapped up in trying to find hate that you are unable to comprehend what you read?
The condescension you push with your current statements shows the hate. It's not lack of comprehension, it's being able to spot personality disorders in the statements you make.

“Dance with Fire- Boycott BS”

Since: Apr 07

Moon

#48 Aug 15, 2013
Amused wrote:
<quoted text>
Think I a problem dyslexia you with have. Read what I wrote again. What part of "I find lots of things fulfilling" led you to believe that I have no hobbies, interests, etc. or don't like art or beauty? Are you really so wrapped up in trying to find hate that you are unable to comprehend what you read?
You cannot recall (or did not read in the first place) the comment that you replied to. It addressed these very subjects, of which you pooh pooh in your grumpussness. Further, if, as the comment you made points out, you do not do anything without logic or sense, then why are you flittering away time on Topix? You are not contributing to the GDP or GNP, making a medical improvement or healing a ill, governing a municipality, teaching a skill or facts, or otherwise improving society in anyway, and therefor are participating in an activity with no value of logic of sense. Neith

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#49 Aug 15, 2013
Interesting thread.

I have no beef with an atheist-wiccain myself.

Why not?

It's no different than an atheist-christian (of where there are some)

The person sees no reason to believe in supernatural woo (atheist) but enjoys the rituals for what they are.

I know of several atheists in my local group, who are members of a local Unitarian church-- and openly atheists too. The church is accepting of atheism as a valid outlook.

So, I think it's not only possible, and a very rational approach for an atheist who desires a social club and likes the rituals.

Why not?

At least they won't be knocking up my door early on a Saturday morning...

... that's a major plus in my book.

Come to think of it? I have **never** been accosted (in any circumstance) by anyone who claims to be either pagan or wicca....

.... and that is another major point in their favor.

“you must not give faith”

Since: Jul 12

Leicester, UK

#50 Aug 16, 2013
GilnoKoibito wrote:
<quoted text>
I still do believe...it's just that a small part of me has begun to question things.
I understand your insistence on not practicing a religion you don't truly believe in as it sort of mocks those who do (like with dabblers and the such.) However, I have believed in and practiced Wicca for almost half my life and a lot of my beliefs still lie in Wicca (after all there is more to a religion than simple belief in deity).
I don't practice much magick or ritual much anymore and my observing the sabbats is mostly me just acknowledging them (I practice alone I should mention), observing the change in the seasons on that day, wishing my fellow Pagans and Wiccans well on that day, and at times, saying a silent prayer to the Gods (as I said, though I may be questioning them, I still try to commune with them; a part of me still believes after all.)
One could say that I've begun to re-assess what I want and need out of life and religion, but it is still something I believe in and want to find out more about myself with. You may think it is half-hearted...but I consider it a bit of a journey; as something I can learn from. I may become completely agnostic in the future or I may re-gain my former beliefs. Perhaps this is just a temporary period for me. A time of questioning and introspection in so that I can learn and realize more about myself and where I feel I fit in the world. And to me, that's a very good thing.
Ok in post 6 you said you are "on the border of believing and not believing" now only a "small part of me has begun to question things". I know it is difficult to describe accurately where your beliefs are even if you have only just started questioning, but please try because my second response to you (post 12) I took your "on the border of believing and not believing" literally, thus my response may not actually apply to you, as if you have only just started questioning post 12 clearly doesn't response to where you really are.
So please before we go round and round in circles can we all know where you are in your beliefs; have you only just started questioning, has your questioning been making you get closer to not believing or are you now right on the edge between believing and not believing. One can't properly respond to someone if they don't know how much the person they are responding to believes. After we all know where you are lets start again and avoid making pointless comments to each other, thank you.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#52 Aug 16, 2013
Pagan and Proud wrote:
<quoted text>The condescension you push with your current statements shows the hate. It's not lack of comprehension, it's being able to spot personality disorders in the statements you make.
You can't address the fact that you have no evidence for your claims and so now you behave passive aggressively.

You are naive and don't believe we have seen the patterns before in other dishonest people?

“I will not go quietly.”

Since: Feb 07

Indianapolis Indiana

#53 Aug 16, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
Interesting thread.
I have no beef with an atheist-wiccain myself.
Why not?
It's no different than an atheist-christian (of where there are some)
The person sees no reason to believe in supernatural woo (atheist) but enjoys the rituals for what they are.
I know of several atheists in my local group, who are members of a local Unitarian church-- and openly atheists too. The church is accepting of atheism as a valid outlook.
So, I think it's not only possible, and a very rational approach for an atheist who desires a social club and likes the rituals.
Why not?
At least they won't be knocking up my door early on a Saturday morning...
... that's a major plus in my book.
Come to think of it? I have **never** been accosted (in any circumstance) by anyone who claims to be either pagan or wicca....
.... and that is another major point in their favor.
Supernatural woo as you refer to it is nothing more than something that is yet unexplained.
The issue I have with atheist/specific religious denomination is that the primary aspect of that given religion is the belief in a particular Deity(set of Deities) and without that you lose the major legitimate claim to being considered a _________(whatever the terminology/name for the follower of that particular religion). wanting to actually just play with the members of the belief without joining in? That's usually referred to as a wanna-be, otherwise known as a lookie-loo, or in terms of psychology an enabler.
If there was actual respect for the belief/religion the people would not seek to use the name or portray themselves as "members" of that belief in the same way that a Vegan wouldn't produce a meal and call it beef stew.

“I will not go quietly.”

Since: Feb 07

Indianapolis Indiana

#54 Aug 16, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
No, you f*cking idiot, it's because ere is zero evidence for god & evolution is as good as a fact with mountains of evidence for it being true.
It's ignorant people like you who show us how stupid you are everyday by equating the two and neve bothering to study and science or logic.
Imagining your way through lie is no way to live. Take your ignorance elsewhere please.
Evolution wasn't mentioned at all, so I suppose that makes YOU the idiot.
Evolution being considered all but fact doesn't change the possibility of the existence of a deity, your false equivalency BS doesn't hold up by your own standards.
The only Ignorance here would be in your insistence that the universe bends to your all or nothing paradigm.

“I will not go quietly.”

Since: Feb 07

Indianapolis Indiana

#55 Aug 16, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
You can't address the fact that you have no evidence for your claims and so now you behave passive aggressively.
You are naive and don't believe we have seen the patterns before in other dishonest people?
I don't need to address my lack of evidence, it's self-evident, and the fact that no evidence neither confirms nor denies my claims angers you greatly, your arrogance rages at that fact.
Actually the naive one here would be yourself, your binary paradigm which stems from the western Monotheistic mindset simply cannot comprehend of an answer that does not adhere to those flawed principles. The world, the country, Reality itself, isn't limited to black and white, good or bad, yes or no.
Grow up.
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#56 Aug 16, 2013
Pagan and Proud wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi P&P, for the un-versed, can you explain what paganism is, and what pagans generally believe in. Cheers
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#57 Aug 16, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
No, you f*cking idiot, it's because ere is zero evidence for god & evolution is as good as a fact ..
No need to lose your cool! or jump to any conclusions.
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#58 Aug 16, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
At least they won't be knocking up my door early on a Saturday morning...
... that's a major plus in my book.
Come to think of it? I have **never** been accosted (in any circumstance) by anyone who claims to be either pagan or wicca....
.... and that is another major point in their favor.
Unlike fundies, who pin you to a walk, wide eyed saying "are you saved by Lord Jesus", "are you saved by the blood of the lamb?" Normal: "Erm, I am a little scared and have to go now." :)
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#59 Aug 16, 2013
^ typo, meant to say fundies pin you to a wall

“I will not go quietly.”

Since: Feb 07

Indianapolis Indiana

#60 Aug 16, 2013
spudgun wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi P&P, for the un-versed, can you explain what paganism is, and what pagans generally believe in. Cheers
Paganism is a blanket term covering a variety of beliefs, it's the opposite of Monotheism(more or less)in that it isn't limited to one god.
The way the term is generally used today represents belief systems which aren't of Abrahamic origin although the larger systems aren't usually called "Pagan" although they qualify, some see it as an insult because of the Origin of the word and it's original meaning.[From the Latin Paganus meaning of the country folk, otherwise unsophisticated or primitive(more pejoratively called hicks), and interestingly enough Christianity was considered "pagan" by the people of Rome before the Conversion].

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#61 Aug 16, 2013
Pagan and Proud wrote:
<quoted text>Supernatural woo as you refer to it is nothing more than something that is yet unexplained.
False. Once it **is** explained? It is no longer supernatural, is it?

Once, not that long ago, people believed that lightning was supernatural-- it isn't. We know that **now**.

Same went for various mental ailments-- they were thought to be caused by supernatural things-- we now know that there are functional, biological causes within the brain itself. Not supernatural.

So supernatural **is** woo until it's explained. Then it's not supernatural anymore.

The phrase is accurate.

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