Wiccan Atheists and Agnostics

Wiccan Atheists and Agnostics

There are 284 comments on the BellaOnline story from Aug 12, 2013, titled Wiccan Atheists and Agnostics. In it, BellaOnline reports that:

Can Wiccans also be atheists or agnostics? This may seem a strange question because the worship of the Lord and Lady is so central to many Wiccans' daily spiritual practice.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at BellaOnline.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#211 Aug 18, 2013
Lelouch0 wrote:
It's not just religion that's guilty of such wrongdoings, though. Political organizations often act in dirty or underhanded ways, things that would ordinarily get them in trouble if they didn't have money to bribe officials with. The same goes for cults. There was a cult in Mexico that was allowed to drink LSD and become high because they said it was part of their "tradition" and the authorities didn't want to tread upon their "freedom."
Politics **is** religion, pretty much.

It has all the same trappings: bullshit, constant lies about the opponents, false memes, character assassinations, etc, etc, etc.

And politics also seems to demand unquestioning obedience to the Party's Lies.

... meh.

As I said? All the same things that **religion** has... only worse-- there's no central book to kind of keep things in perspective.

... ugg.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#212 Aug 18, 2013
Lelouch0 wrote:
I'm all for equality, Bob, but when religions start asking the government to turn a blind eye to them when they start abusing children, start mutilating or killing women or gay people, start dealing in drugs, I'm against it. Who do they think they are, asking to get a free ticket with such things? If we have to serve jail time for doing such things, they are not exempt from it either.
Yes-- it's past time to bring the hammer down on **all** religious activities.

A good start, would be to immediately revoke all their tax exempt status.

In fact? That ought to be sufficient to bring 90% of it crashing down.

Without the tax haven of religion, the super-rich will have to go elsewhere to launder their ill gotten monies.

And the poor, the middle class? Well-- they simply don't generate sufficient wealth to keep the Business of Religion going.

What would be left after that, would be minor annoyances at worse.

Who could be policed for abusive activities, just like any other weird and idiotic behaviors.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#213 Aug 18, 2013
Daddy Dewdrop wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you may be confusing persons who profess religion for their own gain with persons who truly believe in their faith. I say to each his own but don't force your beliefs on me.
There are people who truly believe?

News to me... if they did? They would have little reason to try to force it onto others, would they?

Did you ever hear of Gandhi trying to convert people to his Hindu religion? No?

Yet nobody I've ever read, complained about Gandhi's **lack** of faith...

... oh, sure-- he **was** on a mission to create world **peace**.

But that's hardly the same, is it?
Amused

Merrimac, MA

#214 Aug 19, 2013
Daddy Dewdrop wrote:
<quoted text>
That wasn't religion causing the wars, that was mans ego...as usual! Religion was the excuse.
Religion feeds man's ego. The basis of religion is the division between believers and unbelievers in an "us" vs. "them" dichotomy, with believers thinking they are special because they possess the special knowledge and special approval of a supreme being, and therefore better than the unbelievers. Humans love to divide themselves into groups of us and them. Religion both feeds off that and increases the number of such divisions.

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#215 Aug 19, 2013
Amused wrote:
<quoted text>
Religion feeds man's ego. The basis of religion is the division between believers and unbelievers in an "us" vs. "them" dichotomy, with believers thinking they are special because they possess the special knowledge and special approval of a supreme being, and therefore better than the unbelievers. Humans love to divide themselves into groups of us and them. Religion both feeds off that and increases the number of such divisions.
So how do you propose to help fix the problem of a divided humanity? Doing away with religion won't help. People are wired into tribal/pack mentality by default, with or without religion.
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#216 Aug 19, 2013
scambuster wrote:
<quoted text>
So how do you propose to help fix the problem of a divided humanity? Doing away with religion won't help. People are wired into tribal/pack mentality by default, with or without religion.
I disagree. Doing away with fundamentalist religion will help. A private faith would make no difference, however, dogmatic faith is one of the main barriers dividing people. People are not wired into beliefs. They have to be learned. If any of us were born into a muslim country we would likely be muslims, proving that religions are a result of upbringing.

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#217 Aug 19, 2013
Kathwynn wrote:
<quoted text>
It looked there might have been a start of one.. then the trolls showed up.. Well that ended that.
Hope the trolls are happy. This forum has just become another pathetic forum full of fool trolls.
Any hope of any rational dialog went to the side. The moment the militant atheist trolls decided any one with faith was a liar.
I really wish that topix would take a more active approach to moderating their forums. Just saying.
What saddens me is that when you don't agree with a person's model of the world, more often than not, on topix that degenerates into insults rather than a quest for understanding. So many angry people! I guess if you don't accept their anger, it still belongs to them.
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#218 Aug 19, 2013
scambuster wrote:
<quoted text>
So how do you propose to help fix the problem of a divided humanity? Doing away with religion won't help....
How can anyone write that??

What next? We shouldn't argue against terrorism, someone will just commit some other crime?!

Undermining superstition, crazy heirarchical powers like the RC Church, tribal motives like Zionism and Islamism, attacks on science like creationism/ID, etc, can only help matters.

Religions must be open to criticism and challenge like anything else. Their problem is they're divisive nonsense, of which there are innumerable examples in the world today.

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#219 Aug 19, 2013
EdSed wrote:
<quoted text>How can anyone write that??
What next? We shouldn't argue against terrorism, someone will just commit some other crime?!
Undermining superstition, crazy heirarchical powers like the RC Church, tribal motives like Zionism and Islamism, attacks on science like creationism/ID, etc, can only help matters.
Religions must be open to criticism and challenge like anything else. Their problem is they're divisive nonsense, of which there are innumerable examples in the world today.
Who ever said that we shouldn't argue against terrorism? That's appeal to ridicule, or even more kindly, a slippery slope fallacy. I've never said that religions should not be open to criticism - you said that.
Amused

Merrimac, MA

#220 Aug 19, 2013
scambuster wrote:
<quoted text>
So how do you propose to help fix the problem of a divided humanity? Doing away with religion won't help. People are wired into tribal/pack mentality by default, with or without religion.
Reducing the number of division points will help. Religion is a particularly dangerous source of divisions, as it also teaches believers that the divisions are sanctioned by a higher power, and, in many cases, that god commands or is pleased by violence that 'furthers' the cause of the true believers.

Partial solutions that mitigate a problem can be implemented even though they do not eliminate the problem. Waiting for a global solution instead of implementing partial solutions is not an acceptable alternative.
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#221 Aug 19, 2013
scambuster wrote:
<quoted text>
.. That's appeal to ridicule, or even more kindly, a slippery slope fallacy....
Lol! I can't think of anything that invites ridicule more than defence of religion. This thread is headed 'Wiccan Atheists.." and Wiccans are reasonably innocuous (so far), but I refer to religion in general.

At least we agree that religion should be open to criticism like anything else.
C Shine

Barnardsville, NC

#222 Aug 19, 2013
[QUOTE >
That is the message you got? That if a person isn't willing to join the club, they **must** be kicked to the curb?
...!!![/QUOTE]

That is exactly the opposite of what I said in my posts.

“Proud to be a Wiccan Priest”

Since: Jul 09

Jonesboro AR

#223 Aug 19, 2013
C Shine wrote:
<quoted text>
That is exactly the opposite of what I said in my posts.
What do you expect.. the room is crawling with trolls...

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#224 Aug 19, 2013
scambuster wrote:
<quoted text>
So how do you propose to help fix the problem of a divided humanity? Doing away with religion won't help. People are wired into tribal/pack mentality by default, with or without religion.
Three words:

** Education
** More education
** and still more education.

Okay, that's more than three, but the idea is clear enough-- keep raising the bar on an educated populace and the differences seem to fade into the background automatically.

At least, that seems to be the way it works in small-to-medium scales.

We've never experimented with a total-world educated population; there's always been large majorities who are not only ignorant, but even illiterate too.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#225 Aug 19, 2013
scambuster wrote:
<quoted text>
What saddens me is that when you don't agree with a person's model of the world, more often than not, on topix that degenerates into insults rather than a quest for understanding. So many angry people! I guess if you don't accept their anger, it still belongs to them.
Indeed-- I've seen that too often.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#226 Aug 19, 2013
scambuster wrote:
<quoted text>
Who ever said that we shouldn't argue against terrorism? That's appeal to ridicule, or even more kindly, a slippery slope fallacy. I've never said that religions should not be open to criticism - you said that.
Religion **thrives** on ignorance-- especially ignorance of the modern basic sciences of biology, geology and cosmology.

Studying just those three undermine 90% of the world's religions' basis for existing.

The religions that **do** get along with those branches of inquiry are seldom fanatical or fundamental in nature-- and are not a threat to progress and discovery. Indeed-- those sorts of mature religions seem to embrace both progress and new knowledge.

The bottom line, though? You don't read/hear about a **liberal** catholic setting bombs to blow up protestants.

Neither do you read about **liberal** Islamist leaders planting suicide bombs into crowded markets.

It's the fundamental religions that are the source of these things.

In a future without such religion? Whatever is left, I think even the most dyed-in-the-wool atheist could be convinced to quit bothering them ...

... I know **I** would have no beef with such religions, myself.

I **only** get interested when religions encroach into human rights violations.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#227 Aug 19, 2013
Kathwynn wrote:
<quoted text>
What do you expect.. the room is crawling with trolls...
And your comment enhances the discussion... how?

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#228 Aug 20, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Religion **thrives** on ignorance-- especially ignorance of the modern basic sciences of biology, geology and cosmology.
Studying just those three undermine 90% of the world's religions' basis for existing.
The religions that **do** get along with those branches of inquiry are seldom fanatical or fundamental in nature-- and are not a threat to progress and discovery. Indeed-- those sorts of mature religions seem to embrace both progress and new knowledge.
The bottom line, though? You don't read/hear about a **liberal** catholic setting bombs to blow up protestants.
Neither do you read about **liberal** Islamist leaders planting suicide bombs into crowded markets.
It's the fundamental religions that are the source of these things.
In a future without such religion? Whatever is left, I think even the most dyed-in-the-wool atheist could be convinced to quit bothering them ...
... I know **I** would have no beef with such religions, myself.
I **only** get interested when religions encroach into human rights violations.
Fair enough... I think that I agree with you on all points. Well said!

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#229 Aug 20, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Religion **thrives** on ignorance-- especially ignorance of the modern basic sciences of biology, geology and cosmology.
Studying just those three undermine 90% of the world's religions' basis for existing.
The religions that **do** get along with those branches of inquiry are seldom fanatical or fundamental in nature-- and are not a threat to progress and discovery. Indeed-- those sorts of mature religions seem to embrace both progress and new knowledge.
The bottom line, though? You don't read/hear about a **liberal** catholic setting bombs to blow up protestants.
Neither do you read about **liberal** Islamist leaders planting suicide bombs into crowded markets.
It's the fundamental religions that are the source of these things.
In a future without such religion? Whatever is left, I think even the most dyed-in-the-wool atheist could be convinced to quit bothering them ...
... I know **I** would have no beef with such religions, myself.
I **only** get interested when religions encroach into human rights violations.
Well said!

When a religious belief makes you think that who you love makes you less ethical, when a religious belief makes you think that it is reasonable to kill someone who disagrees, when a religious belief means you think the government shouldn't teach what science has discovered, THEN your religious belief deserves no protection: it is a threat to society.

Religion should not be illegal: stupidity cannot be legislated. But we should guard against the worst manifestations.

“Proud to be a Wiccan Priest”

Since: Jul 09

Jonesboro AR

#230 Aug 20, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
And your comment enhances the discussion... how?
**YAWN**

The only thing that has happened in this room is a bunch of fool troll showed up to show that a militant atheists are not interested in dialog. Just scoring points.. So go for it..

A person lives his or her faith. Does not need to have to prove it to any one. That fact alone is something an atheist will not understand and an militant atheist despises.. And for the record.. Religion does not thrive on "ignorance" I suspect many atheist hold that opinion as it is just another way to score points on a subject that they themselves are willfully ignorant on.

So you have fun with that.

I will do not plan on coming back here as too many trolls looking to be demonstrate the very worse side of being an atheist. The atheists I know in IRL. Would never insult a person of faith and hate the militant atheist for being fools. Of course no one likes troll anyways.

So enjoy your room trolls.. And be proud of the fact that I will now view atheists on these forums with a more jaundiced eye.. Mission accomplish. Damage done.

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