Christianity - moral insanity

Christianity - moral insanity

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Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#1 Feb 12, 2013
Friends, I had a thought on the way into work today. Are fundamental Christians (and Muslims) psychopaths?

On these forums I notice from time to time, some theists condemning people to hell. They believe that if you dont eat Christ's flesh and drink his blood as a wafer, you will be condemned to eternal hellfire.

Muslims think along similar lines just substitute Jesus for Muhammed.

The "saints" discuss the happiness they will have in heaven watching the torments and torture of unbelievers. The have no empathy. They are psychopaths.

In the Bible we read of the Biblical God's commandments to wipe humanity off the face of the earth by drowning in a globcal flood. Followed by repopulation, then Israelites commanded to "kill everything that breathes".

The book of Joshua chronicles genocide, with Israelites going from city to city killing every living thing in their path.

This insane level of violence cannot be defended. However these "heros" of the old testament are defended by Christians as having great virtue and superior morals.

Abraham carries out a mock sacrifice of his son as a "test". God is delighted and Abraham is revered as the father of the "great" monotheisms.

In the new testament Jesus teaches to love your neighbour and other peaceful messages. But this is only reserved for the in-group. Those outside are condemned to eternal hellfire. An eternity of torture in fire. So much for the "loving" saviour.

And many Christians still accept this today. And worse they wish to observe the suffering of the multitudes from their safe seats in heaven.

This is by any definition insane.

Many saner Christians cherry pick what they believe t avoid such nightmares. Through cognitive dissonance they can if they chose just ignore the insanity of such a belief system.

The issue I think is a lack of empathy. Many people who take these myths literally are unable to feel compassion to others. That I think is one of the real issues.

They are the 1% who are psychopathic, maybe subclinical, but nevertheless had mental problems. This could also explain why some in the church support wars and generally act in a smug and cold hearted manner.

I do not wish to offend "normal" Christians in this post :) Your thoughts?

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#2 Feb 12, 2013
“When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called Religion.”~ Robert M. Pirsig

----------

They live in their own fantasy world, a lot like Santa's Workshop.

But their world is a world where a flood can cover the whole earth and leave no trace.

That's the world where man was made from mud and woman was grown from his rib like an off-cut from a plant?

The world where a snake and donkey talked, where giants lived in the land, where dragons, unicorns and cockatrices exist and where people live to be over 900 years old?

The world where a woman was turned into a pillar of salt, where a pillar of fire led people by night, where the sun stopped moving across the sky or could even back up, where an axe head can float on water, where a star could point down to a specific home, where people could instantly speak in foreign languages and where someone's shadow or handkerchief could heal you and where you can genetically alter sheep by floating slivers of tree bark in water?

The world where a man could walk on water, turn water into wine, calm a stormy sea, be swallowed by a big fish and live to tell about it?

The world that is full of demons that could create chaos on earth as well as make people sick?

The world where you find idol worship and where human and animal sacrifices pleased God. It is a world where God lives in the sky and people who die go down to the dark recesses of the earth?

The world that is full of visions, inspired dreams, prophetic utterances, miracle workers, magicians, diviners, etc. Man is not in control of his life. Evil spirits may possess him and Satan may inspire him with evil thoughts?

It is all, of course, complete and utter nonsense. It's absolutely amazing that people in this day and age really do believe such rubbish.
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#3 Feb 12, 2013
Hedonist wrote:
It's absolutely amazing that people in this day and age really do believe such rubbish.
I like it "santa's workshop"! lol

What I find really amazing is that >I< used to believe such rubbish to a limited degree.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#4 Feb 17, 2013
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
I like it "santa's workshop"! lol
What I find really amazing is that >I< used to believe such rubbish to a limited degree.
As did many of us former believers.

One of the cracks for me, at least, you outlined quite well in post #1: the idea that one could be happy in heaven, knowing that the majority of humanity was being tortured just did not set with me.

At all.

By the time I was out of Junior High, I had firmly rejected all of that, and the "exclusive way" theology too. I accepted any and all faiths that had at it's heart, an attempt to help people try to do better and to try to treat each other with respect.

It wasn't until later adulthood, that I finally realized no gods of any kind was the only conclusion that fit everything.

Prior to that, I was sort of a Jeffersonian deist (if you would), firmly rejecting all "magic", and concluding that Jesus, if he existed, was just a man after all.
Thinking

Hounslow, UK

#5 Feb 18, 2013
I put this to Wayne- Wayne said memories are wiped before you get to heaven, so he wouldn't care about those left beihnd.

Sucker Punch, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Brazil are three films that immediately come to mind- all dystopian.
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
As did many of us former believers.
One of the cracks for me, at least, you outlined quite well in post #1: the idea that one could be happy in heaven, knowing that the majority of humanity was being tortured just did not set with me.
At all.
By the time I was out of Junior High, I had firmly rejected all of that, and the "exclusive way" theology too. I accepted any and all faiths that had at it's heart, an attempt to help people try to do better and to try to treat each other with respect.
It wasn't until later adulthood, that I finally realized no gods of any kind was the only conclusion that fit everything.
Prior to that, I was sort of a Jeffersonian deist (if you would), firmly rejecting all "magic", and concluding that Jesus, if he existed, was just a man after all.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#6 Feb 18, 2013
Thinking wrote:
I put this to Wayne- Wayne said memories are wiped before you get to heaven, so he wouldn't care about those left beihnd.
Sucker Punch, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Brazil are three films that immediately come to mind- all dystopian.
<quoted text>
Indeed.

If your brain's wiped? What's the point?

In fact, there is no point-- you would be clueless as to why you were there... and you'd also be mindless.

We already know what it's like to have your memories wiped-- Alzheimer's.

So Wayne's heaven will be filled with ... Alzheimer's people.

WTF?
Thinking

Hounslow, UK

#7 Feb 19, 2013
Wayne's heaven will be submerged in piss.
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Indeed.
If your brain's wiped? What's the point?
In fact, there is no point-- you would be clueless as to why you were there... and you'd also be mindless.
We already know what it's like to have your memories wiped-- Alzheimer's.
So Wayne's heaven will be filled with ... Alzheimer's people.
WTF?
Amused

Bridgewater, MA

#8 Feb 19, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
...
In fact, there is no point-- you would be clueless as to why you were there... and you'd also be mindless.
...
Even without the Magic Mind Wipe, you'd have to be mindless to get into the christian heaven. Or to enjoy it. An eternity spent endlessly telling a deity how wonderful said deity is? How would that be different from hell?

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#9 Feb 19, 2013
Thinking wrote:
Wayne's heaven will be submerged in piss.
<quoted text>
Likely-- with all those brain-wiped zombie-like people wandering around, not knowing they've pissed themselves...

... ugg.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#10 Feb 19, 2013
Amused wrote:
<quoted text>
Even without the Magic Mind Wipe, you'd have to be mindless to get into the christian heaven. Or to enjoy it. An eternity spent endlessly telling a deity how wonderful said deity is? How would that be different from hell?
Well, the difference is that in hell, at least, you'd still have free will.

Not so much in heaven.....

.. and the argument (such as it is) goes like this:

Once you get to heaven? You never have to ever worry about leaving.

For an eternity.

Now, if you had free will? In all that endless time, all it would take, was a single stray thought-- and **bampf** off to hell with you!

For the fundies assure me that hell is there, because Gawd simply cannot stand to be next to sin--- and we know how easy it is to have stray thoughts that are classed as sin...

... IF.

IF there is free will.

But in heaven, you don't need to worrry-- ergo?

No free will in Godbot Heaven.

Of course, for all godbots, there would be no real observable change...

.. would there?

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#11 Feb 19, 2013
I doubt you could come up with a more morally bankrupt system than Christianity.
Amused

Lowell, MA

#12 Feb 20, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
I doubt you could come up with a more morally bankrupt system than Christianity.
Islam?

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#13 Feb 20, 2013
Well that is Christianity 2.0 :)
Amused wrote:
<quoted text>
Islam?
Thinking

Hounslow, UK

#14 Feb 20, 2013
Maybe islam is judaism service pack 3. The one that added more bugs than it removed.
Givemeliberty wrote:
Well that is Christianity 2.0 :)
<quoted text>

Since: Mar 11

Chicago, IL

#15 Feb 20, 2013
Judaism could be the closed beta version?:)

Mormonism would be Christianity 3.0
Thinking wrote:
Maybe islam is judaism service pack 3. The one that added more bugs than it removed.
<quoted text>
Amused

Bridgewater, MA

#16 Feb 20, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Judaism could be the closed beta version?:)
Mormonism would be Christianity 3.0
<quoted text>
LDS is the bastard child of christinaity and freemasonry. Joseph Smith was a mason, and the original LDS temple rituals are almost an exact replica of masonic rites. They've been modified a bit, but anyone who knows the masonic rites would still have a strong deja vu feeling inside a mormon temple.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#17 Feb 20, 2013
Doesn't surprise me in the least.
Amused wrote:
<quoted text>
LDS is the bastard child of christinaity and freemasonry. Joseph Smith was a mason, and the original LDS temple rituals are almost an exact replica of masonic rites. They've been modified a bit, but anyone who knows the masonic rites would still have a strong deja vu feeling inside a mormon temple.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#18 Feb 20, 2013
Amused wrote:
<quoted text>
LDS is the bastard child of christinaity and freemasonry. Joseph Smith was a mason, and the original LDS temple rituals are almost an exact replica of masonic rites. They've been modified a bit, but anyone who knows the masonic rites would still have a strong deja vu feeling inside a mormon temple.
There you go.

No modern religion has a single thing new to offer.

None.

They are, each and every one, copies of earlier religions.
Lincoln

United States

#21 Mar 8, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
As did many of us former believers.
One of the cracks for me, at least, you outlined quite well in post #1: the idea that one could be happy in heaven, knowing that the majority of humanity was being tortured just did not set with me.
At all.
By the time I was out of Junior High, I had firmly rejected all of that, and the "exclusive way" theology too. I accepted any and all faiths that had at it's heart, an attempt to help people try to do better and to try to treat each other with respect.
It wasn't until later adulthood, that I finally realized no gods of any kind was the only conclusion that fit everything.
Prior to that, I was sort of a Jeffersonian deist (if you would), firmly rejecting all "magic", and concluding that Jesus, if he existed, was just a man after all.
What is your source for Jefferson's beliefs?

Should not be a difficult question

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#22 Mar 8, 2013
Lincoln wrote:
<quoted text>
What is your source for Jefferson's beliefs?
Should not be a difficult question
You--stalking me-- classic hate-theist.

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