Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#154 Oct 26, 2012
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>I looked at this

The article you refer to was written by someone called Mark Hartwig.

I checked his scientific credentials and his expertise is educational psychology in which he holds a PhD.

You must be pretty stupid to prefer his non-knowledge of evolution over the wealth of real knowledge belonging to the many evolutionary and molecular biologists, anatomists, geneticists, etc.

Your choosing Hartwig is a bit like choosing a plumber to rewire your house instead of an electrician.

Dumb,dumb,dumb.

Why doesn't this surprise me?
NOT

"Mark Hartwig has a Ph.D. in educational psychology from UC Santa Barbara and today is a free lance journalist and author. He has written many articles on intelligent design and evolutionary theory which have appeared in newspapers and magazines such as Boundless (a Webzine for college students), the Wall Street Journal, the LA Times, Citizen Magazine, Origins Research where he served as managing editor, and Teachers in Focus Magazine where he served as the editor. He also co-authored Invitation to a Conflict: A Retrospective Look at the California Science Framework with Paul Nelson.

Mark Hartwig served on the Access Research Network Board of Directors and has much experience with outreaching to students through the creation-evolution controversy. He has been an active member of the intelligent design movement by promoting understanding of the basic issues in popular media--especially to college students. Back in his college days, Dr. Hartwig was also a member of "Students for Origins Research" (SOR), a student-run pro-intelligent design origins discussion club which existed on the UC Santa Barbara campus in the 1970's. Mark Hartwig is a thoughtful writer and very experienced in student-outreach, making him an asset to the IDEA Center Advisory Board. "

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#155 Oct 26, 2012
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>Here are just a few things your religion has:

Dragons, unicorns, giants and cockatrices.

A talking snakes and donkeys.

A flat earth.

Bats that are birds and rabbits that chew the cud.

A divine recipe for shitcakes

Genetically altering goats by floating tree bark in water.

Men with milk in their breasts

Oh yes, let's not forget.... A ratio of 3:1 for Pi

Holy holy holy!
NOT

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#156 Oct 26, 2012
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
I know you're new here but it's best to make allowances for people's typos. Otherwise people will start correcting any typos, spelling and grammatical errors you make.
Christians believe in one particular god and people of other faiths believe in other gods. They are different, you know.
But for the purpose of this post I'll stick to Christians as an example:
I don't care what Christians believe in but I do have a problem when they want government support for their commandments and prayers; when they want to substitute science with their particular creation myth and when they want their religious prejudices to be enacted in statutory legislation, etc.
oh dear you scare me, sorry for disturbing you! I was only kidding about the typo!:)

I believe there's only one God too. Don't all faiths believe in the thing that created us? so aren't they all just praising the same thing.

yeah, but like you said it's legal!

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#157 Oct 26, 2012
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>oh dear you scare me, sorry for disturbing you! I was only kidding about the typo!:)

I believe there's only one God too. Don't all faiths believe in the thing that created us? so aren't they all just praising the same thing.

yeah, but like you said it's legal!
But he wants the government to back the preaching of his religion.

Evolution: when you think of it you would have start at the very beginning with the primordial soup. Let's go back to the making of the soup. Rain falling on rocks for millions and millions of years washing the correct minerals and elements into a puddle to combine with the correct gases over millions of years. Then to make the fairy tail really good some thing some how created the spark of life and a speck of life came forth. Now this very primitive ( the most primitive life form ever ) lived long enough to mutate and mutate billions of times creating all forms of life ever to exist. Plants and animals adding more and more DNA along the way. Perfecting host and symbiont relationships. Fish and mammals swimming in the oceans some with gills others with blow holes then the birds in the sky and of course the birds that can't fly. Insects and ticks and worms.
Grass and trees and flowers. All from the speck of life that sprang to life with who knows how long of a life span.
Creating some as in algae to create oxygen that would be needed for the life forms that were to follow as it just kept mutating and adding DNA until the arrival of the great ape who figured it all out with no room for error and stood on his soap box and proclaimed this is how it happened no other explanation is possible.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#158 Oct 26, 2012
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
But he wants the government to back the preaching of his religion.
Evolution: when you think of it you would have start at the very beginning with the primordial soup. Let's go back to the making of the soup. Rain falling on rocks for millions and millions of years washing the correct minerals and elements into a puddle to combine with the correct gases over millions of years. Then to make the fairy tail really good some thing some how created the spark of life and a speck of life came forth. Now this very primitive ( the most primitive life form ever ) lived long enough to mutate and mutate billions of times creating all forms of life ever to exist. Plants and animals adding more and more DNA along the way. Perfecting host and symbiont relationships. Fish and mammals swimming in the oceans some with gills others with blow holes then the birds in the sky and of course the birds that can't fly. Insects and ticks and worms.
Grass and trees and flowers. All from the speck of life that sprang to life with who knows how long of a life span.
Creating some as in algae to create oxygen that would be needed for the life forms that were to follow as it just kept mutating and adding DNA until the arrival of the great ape who figured it all out with no room for error and stood on his soap box and proclaimed this is how it happened no other explanation is possible.
If the universe can create itself, that can definitely happen! Wow! what a magical place we live in!!:)

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#159 Oct 27, 2012
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
You prove your ignorance with every post.
Man brought sin and death into the world.
Isn't it nice that mankind was given the freedom of choice, and not made us as puppets of God? Man goofed up big time. God did not!
The universe is balanced there is good
And bad. Get use to it!
"He created smallpox.
Then he ensured millions of men, women, children and babies died painful deaths over tens of thousands of years before letting humanity find a cure"
Mankind picked this path God simply gave us the freedom of choice to do so.
Here we see the lunacy of the godbot.

According to his beliefs, humans are wretched, despicable creatures and totally unworthy of being tolerated by his god of hate and death.

He believes with every fibre of his being that it was his god who set humans up to fail. After all, it was his god that put the tree of knowledge and that talking snake in the garden, to begin with.

No doubt he sees this as a wonderful display of divine goodness and love.

Also note his admission that his god created all that is bad.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#160 Oct 27, 2012
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
NOT
"Mark Hartwig has a Ph.D. in educational psychology from UC Santa Barbara and today is a free lance journalist and author. He has written many articles on intelligent design and evolutionary theory which have appeared in newspapers and magazines such as Boundless (a Webzine for college students), the Wall Street Journal, the LA Times, Citizen Magazine, Origins Research where he served as managing editor, and Teachers in Focus Magazine where he served as the editor. He also co-authored Invitation to a Conflict: A Retrospective Look at the California Science Framework with Paul Nelson.
Mark Hartwig served on the Access Research Network Board of Directors and has much experience with outreaching to students through the creation-evolution controversy. He has been an active member of the intelligent design movement by promoting understanding of the basic issues in popular media--especially to college students. Back in his college days, Dr. Hartwig was also a member of "Students for Origins Research" (SOR), a student-run pro-intelligent design origins discussion club which existed on the UC Santa Barbara campus in the 1970's. Mark Hartwig is a thoughtful writer and very experienced in student-outreach, making him an asset to the IDEA Center Advisory Board. "
In other words he's not qualified to query the science behind evolution.

You carry on using plumbers to rewire your house. I'll stick with electricians.

ROFLMAO!!!!!

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#161 Oct 27, 2012
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
NOT
It's all in your Bible - I was hardly scratching the surface.

If you don't like it perhaps it's time for one of your telepathic tete-a-tetes with that 2000 year old zombie of yours.

LOL

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#162 Oct 27, 2012
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
oh dear you scare me, sorry for disturbing you! I was only kidding about the typo!:)
I believe there's only one God too. Don't all faiths believe in the thing that created us? so aren't they all just praising the same thing.
yeah, but like you said it's legal!
No worries. I knew you were kidding but sometimes people don't always see it that way.

If you're in the UK then you'll know that the law will always look at how something is taken rather than the intent it is given. Imagine getting bullied or sexually harassed at work and when you complain, your boss says "I was only kidding".

Also, I'm not sure Christians would agree that their god is the same as the Hindu deity, Brahma.

I know you're reading this, longears. What do you say? Was the universe created by Brahma?

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#163 Oct 27, 2012
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
But he wants the government to back the preaching of his religion.
Evolution: when you think of it you would have start at the very beginning with the primordial soup. Let's go back to the making of the soup. Rain falling on rocks for millions and millions of years washing the correct minerals and elements into a puddle to combine with the correct gases over millions of years. Then to make the fairy tail really good some thing some how created the spark of life and a speck of life came forth. Now this very primitive ( the most primitive life form ever ) lived long enough to mutate and mutate billions of times creating all forms of life ever to exist. Plants and animals adding more and more DNA along the way. Perfecting host and symbiont relationships. Fish and mammals swimming in the oceans some with gills others with blow holes then the birds in the sky and of course the birds that can't fly. Insects and ticks and worms.
Grass and trees and flowers. All from the speck of life that sprang to life with who knows how long of a life span.
Creating some as in algae to create oxygen that would be needed for the life forms that were to follow as it just kept mutating and adding DNA until the arrival of the great ape who figured it all out with no room for error and stood on his soap box and proclaimed this is how it happened no other explanation is possible.
No matter how much you hate it - the evidence for evolution is there while the evidence for magic is not.

Remember folks, if you get an argument about science from a creationist, it's not science at all and is likely to be wildly inaccurate.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#164 Oct 27, 2012
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
No worries. I knew you were kidding but sometimes people don't always see it that way.
If you're in the UK then you'll know that the law will always look at how something is taken rather than the intent it is given. Imagine getting bullied or sexually harassed at work and when you complain, your boss says "I was only kidding".
Also, I'm not sure Christians would agree that their god is the same as the Hindu deity, Brahma.
I know you're reading this, longears. What do you say? Was the universe created by Brahma?
lol. everyone calls the creator different things, they have a different form in their head, but all religions worship who every made us!! no true monotheist believer can ever say there is two gods, those people r unfaithful to their lord and master! lol u really from nottingham! r u hindu?

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#165 Oct 27, 2012
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
lol. everyone calls the creator different things, they have a different form in their head, but all religions worship who every made us!! no true monotheist believer can ever say there is two gods, those people r unfaithful to their lord and master! lol u really from nottingham! r u hindu?
You're right - die-hard monotheists will always stick to their one invisible cosmic mega-being.

Die-hard pantheists will say there are many cosmic mega-beings.

Of course for thousands of years, the pantheists also included the Jews in their ranks. That stopped after the Jews were conquered by the Persians. The Persian religion of Zoroastrianism is all about one god. This inspired the Jews to ditch the many gods and stick with the one.

You also appear to have a tendency of jumping to unlikely conclusions - what makes you think I'm a Hindu?

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#166 Oct 27, 2012
Going back on topic....

Christians see women as entirely subservient to men.

They get it from their Bibles...

"If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church."

1 Corinthians 14:35

"I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.

11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearingif they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety."

1 Timothy 2:9-15

So there you have it ladies. Unlike men, you don't get saved by being faithful and holy - you've also got to have babies..

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#167 Oct 27, 2012
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
You're right - die-hard monotheists will always stick to their one invisible cosmic mega-being.
Die-hard pantheists will say there are many cosmic mega-beings.
Of course for thousands of years, the pantheists also included the Jews in their ranks. That stopped after the Jews were conquered by the Persians. The Persian religion of Zoroastrianism is all about one god. This inspired the Jews to ditch the many gods and stick with the one.
You also appear to have a tendency of jumping to unlikely conclusions - what makes you think I'm a Hindu?
the name khatru sounds very hindu, like khatri!!

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#177 Oct 27, 2012
Doctor Who Two wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL
The little Marionette is nuts you know. LOL
Let me add this tidbit.
"By applying Einstein’s General Theory of Relativity, astrophysicists have concluded that the Big Bang must have occurred 13.7 billion years ago. They claim that at that time our enormous universe, with its tens of billions of galaxies, each containing many tens of billions of stars, was originally compressed into a singularity of nearly infinite density. Most astrophysicists believe that our enormous universe was initially microscopic in size.
This concept of the creation of our universe defies common sense. It would be called ridiculous if it had not been proclaimed so loudly for so many years by scientists having prestigious degrees. Some scientists realize that there is something fundamentally wrong with this concept, but there is no recognized alternative that is consistent with scientific data."
http://www.olduniverse.com/
lol everyone on here is nuts i tell u!!!!

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#181 Oct 27, 2012
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
the name khatru sounds very hindu, like khatri!!
Ah, I suppose it does.

This particular Khatru has its roots in 1970s British rock music.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#182 Oct 27, 2012
Doctor Who Two wrote:
<quoted text>
You're the one that believes nothing exploded and created everything.
You're the one that believe goo gave birth to life.
You're the one that believes that one single cell of live is the mother to all life but claim a God created perfect Man and Woman could not give birth to man kind because of inbreeding. Lol
You're the one that believes plants gave birth to animals.
You're the one that believes Science is always right.
That's what the evidence points to.

Evolutionary science is supported by vast amounts of evidence and you know what? There's no evidence that contradicts it. You must really hate that. Unless, that is, you have evidence to show that evolution is wrong. Do you? Let's see your evidence that discredits the Theory of Evolution.

In the most ancient rocks...no life is found

As we move to younger and younger rocks, we find:

-simple, single celled life forms
-blue-green, red algae, "iron-algae"
-jellyfish, anemones
-sponges, corals...and animal embryos...

By then, we are in the EDIACARAN PERIOD... Many new animal types are present; tracks and trails become more common and complex; creatures that look like arthropods, and other very complex body forms are found.

Only after all that do we reach the Cambrian Period...and the first primitive vertebrates appear (but related creatures are known from the Ediacaran!).

Over the next 300 million years... amphibians and reptiles evolve (plenty of transitional forms known), and mammal-like reptiles dominate... There is a wonderful collection showing the evolution of mammals from mammal-like reptiles!

A great extinction at the end of the Paleozoic makes room for the mammals and the dinosaurs (and snakes and lizards are present for the first time). Then we find:

slim, fast-moving dinosaurs
slim, fast-moving dinosaurs with feathers
slim, fast-moving animals with dinosaur jaws, heads, necks, hips, tails, etc... with feathers.
slim, fast-moving birds with dinosaur jaws, or heads, etc...

...and then finally, modern-looking birds.

Then another big extinction; we lose the dinos, keep the birds... and the mammals spread out over the land (it WAS pretty empty!). All sorts of new, big mammals evolved...and died out. Whole new groups appear; some disappear, some flourish...

Small toed forest critters become swift, hoofed horses...
Amphibious, sharp-toothed predators become legged whale ancestors...and on branch of their descendants become actual whales (but still with legs for a LONG time!:)

And various primate populations spread across parts of the world, a group in Africa became modern primates, with one group being "us"... Humans.

That's is what the fossils show; it ignores all the tremendous amount of biologic science which totally supports evolutionary theory...the mutation of DNA, natural selection removing some populations with certain mutations, while others do well...

You have millions of fossils, and billions of pieces of data to refute...

...you should get started on it now.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#183 Oct 27, 2012
Doctor Who Two wrote:
<quoted text>
I thought you didn't believe in God?
Why do you believe in something you don't believe in?
(See what I mean about this one? LOL)
Where in that post of mine you quoted did I say that I believed in yours, or indeed any other god?

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#184 Oct 27, 2012
Doctor Who Two wrote:
<quoted text>
Which evolution?
1) Cosmic evolution: the origin of time/space/matter from nothing in the supposed “Big Bang”
2) Chemical evolution: all the elements “evolved” from hydrogen
3) Stellar evolution: stars formed from dust clouds
4) Organic evolution: life formed from non-living matter
5) Macro-evolution: plants and animals produce offspring different than their ‘kind’
6) Micro-evolution: variations develop within the kind such as big dogs and little dogs; bacteria becoming resistant to drugs; etc.
Only ONE of these definitions for evolution is true SCIENCE—Number 6. The first five are part of a RELIGION that adherents must “believe” in since they have NEVER been observed or demonstrated. Khatru is guilty of mixing these definitions indiscriminately. He (along with many science books) sees and shows lots of evidence for definition #6 with which I agree, but then ASSUMES that this is evidence for the first five. That is NOT good science, Khatru! The variations we all observe and that every farmer on planet earth understands and uses does NOT offer ANY evidence for the first five definitions of evolution.
This morning I looked out over the back garden and in the snow I could see the paw prints of a cat that had walked across the back lawn.

Then it occurred to me that it may not have been a cat, or indeed, any other animal. Most likely it could have been a guy floating over my garden in a hot-air balloon, using long bamboo poles with plastic cat feet securely attached to the end and making a false trail.

Why would he leave a trail of tracks? Perhaps he wanted to fool me.
It's a good job I realised the truth that no cat made those tracks.

What a discerning mind I must have!

Aren't I just like you? You're not tricked by the fossil trail your god has left which fools people of reason and logic.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#185 Oct 27, 2012
Doctor Who Two wrote:
<quoted text>
You still don't know a thing about Christianity. If this was baseball you would be so far off base the stadium would not be big enough.
"You're either with us or your're damned"

That's the Christian mantra. It tells me all I need to know about your hate-filled, divisive belief system.

Anyway, I can't help but notice your complete failure to actually refute me.

Wailing and stamping your feet doesn't count.

The Bible says that women need to have babies if they're to be saved.

Yes or no?

While you're fumbling around looking for an answer, I'll share some more biblical hatred of women....

"And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even. And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean: every thing also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean. And whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. And whosoever toucheth any thing that she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. And if it be on her bed, or on any thing whereon she sitteth, when he toucheth it, he shall be unclean until the even. And if any man lie with her at all, and her flowers be upon him, he shall be unclean seven days; and all the bed whereon he lieth shall be unclean. And if a woman have an issue of her blood many days out of the time of her separation, or if it run beyond the time of her separation; all the days of the issue of her uncleanness shall be as the days of her separation: she shall be unclean. Every bed whereon she lieth all the days of her issue shall be unto her as the bed of her separation: and whatsoever she sitteth upon shall be unclean, as the uncleanness of her separation. And whosoever toucheth those things shall be unclean, and shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. But if she be cleansed of her issue, then she shall number to herself seven days, and after that she shall be clean. And on the eighth day she shall take unto her two turtles, or two young pigeons, and bring them unto the priest, to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And the priest shall offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for her before the LORD for the issue of her uncleanness."

Leviticus 15:19-30

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