"Your husband shall rule over you�

[nanoanomaly]

It also says a man should love his wife as much as he loves himself. There aren't very many men who do that, Christian or not.

[Amused]

Doctor Who Two wrote:

men and women were equal. It wasn’t until after the Fall that God declared “Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you�(Gen 3:16b).

The bible reflects the cultural values of a misogynistic tribal culture, the same way it reflects the values of a slave-holding culture, and a nomadic culture of warriors bent on conquest. Why should anyone be surprised by this? More evidence of the misogyny can be found in the weird obsession with menstruation and 'uncleanliness'. The bible and the koran are equally effective as manuals for the He-Man Women Haters Club. It's a miracle we never had a Pope Alfalfa.

[havent forgotten]

Amused wrote:

<quoted text>
The bible reflects the cultural values of a misogynistic tribal culture, the same way it reflects the values of a slave-holding culture, and a nomadic culture of warriors bent on conquest. Why should anyone be surprised by this? More evidence of the misogyny can be found in the weird obsession with menstruation and 'uncleanliness'. The bible and the koran are equally effective as manuals for the He-Man Women Haters Club. It's a miracle we never had a Pope Alfalfa.

I agree with your comment, and usually enjoy your comments. Have you noticed that there are several unfortunately nasty feuds on some of the threads, by people who seem to want to be either personal or racist, and always have the last word with each other. Too bad it is not possible just to have an objection to a series of personal feud comments and have topix take them all off and ban the participants - these things have nothing to do with conversation or free expression. But of course, the minute one trusts a censor, one is in trouble if one is not sure the censor is completely sensible and civil libertarian at the same time!

[havent forgotten]

Doctor Who Two wrote:

What no takers on this bible verse?
Do you take this verse at face value?

it was you who was not taken at face value, as an ignorant fundie. prove you are an ignorant fundie and we will be glad to argue with you.

[Amused]

havent forgotten wrote:

<quoted text> I agree with your comment, and usually enjoy your comments. Have you noticed that there are several unfortunately nasty feuds on some of the threads, by people who seem to want to be either personal or racist, and always have the last word with each other. Too bad it is not possible just to have an objection to a series of personal feud comments and have topix take them all off and ban the participants - these things have nothing to do with conversation or free expression. But of course, the minute one trusts a censor, one is in trouble if one is not sure the censor is completely sensible and civil libertarian at the same time!

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

[Amused]

havent forgotten wrote:

<quoted text> I agree with your comment, and usually enjoy your comments. Have you noticed that there are several unfortunately nasty feuds on some of the threads, by people who seem to want to be either personal or racist, and always have the last word with each other. Too bad it is not possible just to have an objection to a series of personal feud comments and have topix take them all off and ban the participants - these things have nothing to do with conversation or free expression. But of course, the minute one trusts a censor, one is in trouble if one is not sure the censor is completely sensible and civil libertarian at the same time!

Well, my introduction to the Internet and forums, in particular, was on Usenet, where I used to hang out on alt.flame. That pretty much left me hardened to vigorous disagreement, including the personal, the racist, the sexist, the homophobic, and just about any other nastiness you can imagine. I've dialed it back massively for this forum, but I still have the chops. Of course, Usenet was completely uncensored, and alt.flame was kind of like the wild west of the internet.

[KJV]

Very old Testiment.
Too bad half the world still treats women this way.

[Amused]

Doctor Who Two wrote:

It is Written

Should have been written in crayon.

[EdSed]

This is written too, look..

Garden of Eden

Adam was walking around the Garden of Eden feeling very lonely, so God asked Adam, "What is wrong with you?"

Adam said, "I don't have anyone to talk to."

God said, "I will give you a companion and it will be a woman." He said, "This person will cook for you and wash your clothes, she will always agree with every decision you make, she will bear your children and never ask you to get up in the middle of the night to take care of them.

"She will not nag," God continued, "and will always be the first to admit she was wrong. When you've had a disagreement, she will never have a headache and will freely give you love and passion whenever needed."

Adam asked God, "What will a woman like this cost?"

God said, "An arm and a leg!"

Adam said, "What can I get for just a rib?"

AND THE REST IS HISTORY.

[LOL in a suit]

EdSed wrote:

This is written too, look..
Garden of Eden
Adam was walking around the Garden of Eden feeling very lonely, so God asked Adam, "What is wrong with you?"
Adam said, "I don't have anyone to talk to."
God said, "I will give you a companion and it will be a woman." He said, "This person will cook for you and wash your clothes, she will always agree with every decision you make, she will bear your children and never ask you to get up in the middle of the night to take care of them.
"She will not nag," God continued, "and will always be the first to admit she was wrong. When you've had a disagreement, she will never have a headache and will freely give you love and passion whenever needed."
Adam asked God, "What will a woman like this cost?"
God said, "An arm and a leg!"
Adam said, "What can I get for just a rib?"
AND THE REST IS HISTORY.

Nice, mind if I repost this?

[EdSed]

LOL in a suit wrote:

<quoted text>Nice, mind if I repost this?

Help yourself. Here's the source..
http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/quotes/...

Adam and Eve are such a funny invention to people of our age. Someone recently asked if they had belly-buttons! Dave Allan on the subject...
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Imagine if you were Adam when God took Adam's rib and made a woman out of it. I'd count my ribs carefully every night and morning after that and wonder what next - make a giant whale out of my willy?(That would give a new meaning to 'Free Willy').

[LOL in a suit]

EdSed wrote:

<quoted text>Help yourself. Here's the source..
http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/quotes/...
Adam and Eve are such a funny invention to people of our age. Someone recently asked if they had belly-buttons! Dave Allan on the subject...
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Imagine if you were Adam when God took Adam's rib and made a woman out of it. I'd count my ribs carefully every night and morning after that and wonder what next - make a giant whale out of my willy?(That would give a new meaning to 'Free Willy').

Thanks, and funny.

[KJV]

EdSed wrote:

This is written too, look..

Garden of Eden

Adam was walking around the Garden of Eden feeling very lonely, so God asked Adam, "What is wrong with you?"

Adam said, "I don't have anyone to talk to."

God said, "I will give you a companion and it will be a woman." He said, "This person will cook for you and wash your clothes, she will always agree with every decision you make, she will bear your children and never ask you to get up in the middle of the night to take care of them.

"She will not nag," God continued, "and will always be the first to admit she was wrong. When you've had a disagreement, she will never have a headache and will freely give you love and passion whenever needed."

Adam asked God, "What will a woman like this cost?"

God said, "An arm and a leg!"

Adam said, "What can I get for just a rib?"

AND THE REST IS HISTORY.

Should have payed full price!

[KJV]

THE FIRST TABLET OF THE SEVEN

When in the height heaven was not named,
And the earth beneath did not yet bear a name,
And the primeval Apsu, who begat them,
And chaos, Tiamut, the mother of them both
Their waters were mingled together,
And no field was formed, no marsh was to be seen;
When of the gods none had been called into being,
And none bore a name, and no destinies were ordained;
Then were created the gods in the midst of heaven,
Lahmu and Lahamu were called into being...
Ages increased,...
Then Ansar and Kisar were created, and over them....
Long were the days, then there came forth.....
Anu, their son,...
Ansar and Anu...
And the god Anu...
Nudimmud, whom his fathers, his begetters.....
Abounding in all wisdom,...'
He was exceeding strong...
He had no rival -
Thus were established and were... the great gods.
But Tiamat and Apsu were still in confusion...
They were troubled and...
In disorder...
Apru was not diminished in might...
And Tiamat roared...
She smote, and their deeds...
Their way was evil...
Then Apsu, the begetter of the great gods,
Cried unto Mummu, his minister, and said unto him:
"O Mummu, thou minister that rejoicest my spirit,
Come, unto Tiamut let us go!
So they went and before Tiamat they lay down,
They consulted on a plan with regard to the gods, their sons.
Apsu opened his mouth and spake,
And unto Tiamut, the glistening one, he addressed the word:
...their way...
By day I can not rest, by night I can not lie down in peace.
But I will destroy their way, I will...
Let there be lamentation, and let us lie down again in peace."
When Tiamat heard these words,
She raged and cried aloud...
She... grievously...,
She uttered a curse, and unto Apsu she spake:
"What then shall we do?
Let their way be made difficult, and let us lie down again in peace."
Mummu answered, and gave counsel unto Apsu,
...and hostile to the gods was the counsel Mummu gave:
Come, their way is strong, but thou shalt destroy it;
Then by day shalt thou have rest, by night shalt thou lie down in peace."
Apsu harkened unto him and his countenance grew bright,
Since he (Mummu) planned evil against the gods his sons.
... he was afraid...,
His knees became weak; they gave way beneath him,
Because of the evil which their first-born had planned.
... their... they altered.
... they...,
Lamentation they sat in sorrow
..........
Then Ea, who knoweth all that is, went up and he beheld their muttering.

[Ocean56]

nanoanomaly wrote:

It also says a man should love his wife as much as he loves himself. There aren't very many men who do that, Christian or not.

REALLY. Tell that to the so-called "christians" who beat and abuse their girlfriends or wives and use the bible to justify it.

The buybull is a misogynistic book, written by ignorant men who obviously hated women. What's truly sickening is how many men still believe every stupid word that dumb book says, regarding women or anything else.

[KJV]

Ocean56 wrote:

<quoted text>REALLY. Tell that to the so-called "christians" who beat and abuse their girlfriends or wives and use the bible to justify it.

The buybull is a misogynistic book, written by ignorant men who obviously hated women. What's truly sickening is how many men still believe every stupid word that dumb book says, regarding women or anything else.

I agree with most of that. The bible should not be used to claim one sex superior to the other. Though out the bible God shows that the sexes are equal in his eyes.

[Reason Personified]

KJV wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree with most of that. The bible should not be used to claim one sex superior to the other. Though out the bible God shows that the sexes are equal in his eyes.

Wow, which bible god do you worship? It must be one of those new sanitized, whitewashed, all tied up in big pretty bow, re-imagined bible gods right? The old one, that dirty old azzwipe Jehovah considers a female not even human.
Girls and women if they were even counted, were counted as property, not family. Boys and men were the complete human census. A woman giving birth to a son, was filthy only half as long as if she had given birth to a daughter.
Old Jehovah never once had a single good thing to say about the female genitalia, but the male danglies, lots and lots of input there. He really had a thing for the pretty, pretty dangly bits.

[Reason Personified]

Doctor Who Two wrote:

Creation order: Man was created first, woman second. "For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. " 1 Timothy 2:13
Creation origin: Man and all creation was created by God directly out of dust, whereas woman was created through the man’s rib. "Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. " Genesis 2:7 Woman is the only creature not made from dust. Woman derives her origin from Man. "The Lord God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. " Genesis 2:22 "For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man" 1 Corinthians 11:8
Creation purpose: Woman created for man: "for indeed man was not created for the woman’s sake, but woman for the man’s sake." 1 Corinthians 11:9
Man named woman: Adam named the animals and was to rule over them. "Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. " Genesis 2:19 "rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth." Genesis 1:28 When Eve was brought to Adam, he named her, showing he was to rule over woman as well. "The man said, "This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man."" Genesis 2:23
Delegation principle: God commanded directly to Adam alone. The prohibition to not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, was made directly by God to Adam. Adam, in turn relayed what God said to Eve. Eve had not yet been created when God told Adam about the forbidden tree. Eve never actually heard God say this direct, but had to trust Adam’s word on the matter. "The Lord God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die." Then the Lord God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him."" Genesis 2:16-18
Woman sinned first: The devil tempted Eve and she, not the man, was first deceived. Because of this, man put Eve under the headship of Adam. "And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. " 1 Timothy 2:14; "Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said,‘You shall not eat from any tree of the garden’?"" Genesis 3:1
God rebuked Adam first after they ate the forbidden fruit: Although Eve was the logical person for God to rebuke first, God went to Adam, showing that God considered Adam the "head of the family" for both. "Then the Lord God called to the man, and said to him, "Where are you?" " Genesis 3:9
Man is the glory of God, woman is the glory of man: "For a man is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man." 1 Corinthians 11:7
Paul pointed Christians to the Mosaic Law that was 1500 earlier and a different culture: 1 Cor.14:34
Peter pointed Christians to Sarah, 2000 years earlier and a very different culture: 1 Pet. 3:5-6.
Steve Rudd

No matter how you spin it, Adam was meant to find his mate from among the beasts. >>>
Genesis 2:18 The Lord God said,“It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”
19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name.
20. So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.

But for Adam no suitable helper was found. <<< That had to have been, some porn rodeo

[KJV]

Reason Personified wrote:

<quoted text>Wow, which bible god do you worship? It must be one of those new sanitized, whitewashed, all tied up in big pretty bow, re-imagined bible gods right? The old one, that dirty old azzwipe Jehovah considers a female not even human.
Girls and women if they were even counted, were counted as property, not family. Boys and men were the complete human census. A woman giving birth to a son, was filthy only half as long as if she had given birth to a daughter.
Old Jehovah never once had a single good thing to say about the female genitalia, but the male danglies, lots and lots of input there. He really had a thing for the pretty, pretty dangly bits.

How the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) generally viewed women:

Women's behavior was extremely limited in ancient times, much as the women of Afghanistan during the recent Taliban oppression. They were:

Unmarried women were not allowed to leave the home of their father without permission.
Married women were not allowed to leave the home of their husband, without permission.
They were normally restricted to roles of little or no authority.
They could not testify in court.
They could not appear in public venues.
They were not allowed to talk to strangers.
They had to be doubly veiled when they left their homes.
In the Hebrew Scriptures, women were generally viewed in a negative light:

Women were considered inferior to men:

Genesis 1:27 to 3:24:
In the first creation story (Genesis 1:27) God is described as creating man, both male and female at the same time: "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." 2 This might be interpreted as implying equality between the two genders.

But in the second creation story,(Genesis 2:7) God formed only a man: "...the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Realizing that he needed a helper (Genesis 2:18), God marched all of the animals past Adam (Genesis 2:19-20) looking for a suitable animal. Finding none suitable, God created Eve out of one of Adam's ribs. The term "helper" has historically been interpreted as implying an inferior role for Eve, although some modern interpreters believe that the word can mean a companion of equal status. "...the Hebrew word translated "helper" is used twenty-one times in the Old Testament: twenty of these cases refer to help from a superior." (3) In Genesis 2:27, Adam later asserts his authority over Eve by naming her: "...she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man." In ancient times, one was believed to have authority over a person or thing by naming it.

Genesis 3:16: Adam's role is to be Eve's master. The King James Version (KJV), New International Version (NIV), and Revised Standard Version (RSV) use the term "rule" to describe Adam's role over Eve: "...thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." The Living Bible uses the term "master". The Modern Language Bible uses "dominate". By implication, all of their descendents are would have the same power imbalance between spouses.

[KJV]

A man could marry (literally "become the master of the woman") as often as he desired. In Genesis 4:19, Lamech became the first known polygamist when he took two wives. Subsequent men who took multiple wives included: Esau with 3 wives; Jacob: 2; Ashur: 2; Gideon: many; Elkanah: 2; David: many; Solomon: 700 wives of royal birth; Rehaboam: 3; Abijah: 14. Jehoram, Joash, Ahab, Jeholachin and Belshazzar also had multiple wives.

Genesis 16:2 : Sarah gave permission to her husband Abraham to engage in sexual intercourse with her maid, Hagar: "Sarai said unto Abram...I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her." Presumably this was done without the consent of Hagar, who had such a low status in the society of the day that she was required to submit to multiple rapes at her owner's command.

Genesis 19:8: The men of Sodom gathered around Lot's house, and asked that he bring his two guests out so that the men can "know" them. This is frequently interpreted as a desire to gang rape the visitors, although other interpretations are possible. Lot offers his two virgin daughters to be raped instead: He is recorded as saying: "I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes." Yet, even after this despicable act, Lot is still regarded as an honorable man, worth saving from the destruction of the city. Allowing one's daughters to be sexually assaulted by multiple rapists appears to be treated as a minor transgression, because of the low status of the young women. More details on Genesis 19.

Genesis 21:10: A man could simultaneously keep numerous concubines. These were sexual partners of an even lower status than a wife was. As implied in this verse she could be dismissed when no longer needed: Sarah is recorded as saying: "...Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac." Abraham had two concubines; Gideon: at least 1; David: many; Nahor: 1; Jacob: 1; Eliphaz: 1; Gideon: 1; Caleb: 2; Manassah: 1; Saul: 1; David: at least 10; Rehoboam: 60; Solomon: 300; an unidentified Levite: 1; Belshazzar: more than 1.

In Exodus 1:15-16, the Pharaoh ordered the midwives to kill all Jewish boys at birth, because of the threat that they might pose to the kingdom. "And he said, When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the stools; if it be a son, then ye shall kill him: but if it be a daughter, then she shall live." The girls, being considered less important, were not seen as a threat; they were allowed to live.

Exodus 20 & 21: This is perhaps the most misogynistic pair of chapters in the Bible. A number of verses describe a woman as the property of her father. At marriage, her ownership was transferred to her new husband:

Exodus 20:17 lists the last of the Ten Commandments: "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's." It is important to realize that a manservent and a maidservant were male and female slaves. They were not a hired butler and maid. The tenth commandment forbids coveting your neighbor's house, wife, male slave female slave, animals or anything else that the neighbor owns. The wife is clearly regarded as equivalent to a piece of property.