Are Atheists ripping off God by defining God as a personification of Reality?

Aug 1, 2014 Full story: John Dvorak 44

All religions have their own God and they are all different. And every person who believes in God has a different understanding of who or what it is.

Full Story
Thinking

Stockbridge, UK

#21 Aug 13, 2014
"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Nobel Prize Winnner Steven Weinberg.

Much more literate than lincock/patcock trolling.
Amused wrote:
<quoted text>
ISIS is just another example of why all religion is evil. Christians used to burn non-christians at the stake, which is hardly more merciful than beheading. All belief that there's an invisible guy in the sky seems to come with the corollary, "and, he hates all the same people I do."
Patrick

United States

#22 Aug 14, 2014
Thinking wrote:
"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Nobel Prize Winnner Steven Weinberg.
Much more literate than lincock/patcock trolling.
<quoted text>
LOL
Patrick

United States

#23 Aug 14, 2014
In the real world

The U.S. Defense Department says a military assessment team has determined a humanitarian crisis involving thousands of Yazidis fleeing Sunni extremists in northern Iraq is less grave than previously feared. U.S. officials credit airdrops and airstrikes for making a costly and risky evacuation mission less likely.

Pentagon spokesman Rear Admiral John Kirby said a team of less than 20 U.S. military personnel, accompanied by officials of the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), conducted an assessment of the situation on Mount Sinjar early Wednesday. Kirby said the team did not engage in combat operations and all personnel returned safety to Erbil.

Returning from Asia Wednesday, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said the team determined international airdrops, U.S. airstrikes on Islamic State (IS/ISIL) targets and efforts by the Kurdish peshmerga fighters allowed thousands of Yazidis trapped on the mountain to evacuate.

"Not only were there fewer people up there, but they were in relatively good condition, and the people up there credited our efforts with the water and the food and also buying space and time with those airstrikes against ISIL. So, that’s good news," said Hagel.

Hagel said that as a result, a rescue mission that had been planned appears less likely.

Pentagon spokesman Kirby said airdrops of food and water would continue. U.S. Central Command said a seventh such airdrop was conducted late Wednesday.

White House deputy National Security adviser Ben Rhodes Wednesday said the U.S. had also conducted seven airstrikes against IS targets, but added a lasting solution to get the refugees to a safe space may still be needed.
Amused

Lowell, MA

#25 Aug 14, 2014
Patrick wrote:
<quoted text>
.........a few Atheists used to eat people...so what
Your generalizations about all religion or all atheism seem to reveal more about you than those you seem to hate.
Have a nice day
Actually, cannibalism is generally rooted in religious belief. Belief that by eating the heart, or other organ, one acquires the characteristics of the person eaten. The biggest cannibalistic religion is christianity. The doctrine of transubstantiation posits that the bread and wine consumed at communion are, in literal fact, not just symbolically, the blood and flesh of Jesus. Every Sunday, millions of christians gather to ritually devour their deity.

Religion is more than the few major belief systems most people think of when they think of religion. The Mayans had a religion, no longer practiced. There are probably thousands of belief systems, from islam and christianity to cargo cults. Any system of belief that invokes the supernatural is a religion.

Cannibalism for sustenance is nearly unheard of.
Thinking

Blandford, UK

#26 Aug 14, 2014
With good reason! Look what happened in PNG.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuru_%28disease%...
Amused wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, cannibalism is generally rooted in religious belief. Belief that by eating the heart, or other organ, one acquires the characteristics of the person eaten. The biggest cannibalistic religion is christianity. The doctrine of transubstantiation posits that the bread and wine consumed at communion are, in literal fact, not just symbolically, the blood and flesh of Jesus. Every Sunday, millions of christians gather to ritually devour their deity.
Religion is more than the few major belief systems most people think of when they think of religion. The Mayans had a religion, no longer practiced. There are probably thousands of belief systems, from islam and christianity to cargo cults. Any system of belief that invokes the supernatural is a religion.
Cannibalism for sustenance is nearly unheard of.
True Christian witness

Bartlesville, OK

#27 Aug 14, 2014
It takes faith to believe in the one true God of the Bible, not who preachers say he is or teachers say what god is, the Bible tells anyone who reads the Bible who God is.
Matthew 6:9. Exodus 3:15
Isaiah 45:3. Exodus 20:2
Psalms 83:18

You will have to use an old Bible to read Jehovah's name in those Scriptures, because since 1997, all Christian religions, Catholic and Protestant, which is any religion not Catholic, have had removed that name from Scripture. The name Jehovah was in the Bible over 7000 times. John 17:3 and 26

The reason the Bible printing is paid by religion, and they can't accept the name Jehovah, because they teach Jesus is God, and don't want to confuse their people.
Thinking

Blandford, UK

#28 Aug 14, 2014
Over 40,000 christian sects despite declining belief = massive confusion.
True Christian witness wrote:
It takes faith to believe in the one true God of the Bible, not who preachers say he is or teachers say what god is, the Bible tells anyone who reads the Bible who God is.
Matthew 6:9. Exodus 3:15
Isaiah 45:3. Exodus 20:2
Psalms 83:18
You will have to use an old Bible to read Jehovah's name in those Scriptures, because since 1997, all Christian religions, Catholic and Protestant, which is any religion not Catholic, have had removed that name from Scripture. The name Jehovah was in the Bible over 7000 times. John 17:3 and 26
The reason the Bible printing is paid by religion, and they can't accept the name Jehovah, because they teach Jesus is God, and don't want to confuse their people.
Patrick

United States

#29 Aug 14, 2014
LISTEN
Andrew Brown and Daniel Trilling discuss the cult of Richard Dawkins
The other day I wrote something to upset the followers of Richard Dawkins and one of them tracked me down to a pub. I had been asked to give a talk to a group of ‘Skeptics in the Pub’ about whether there are any atheist babies — clearly not, in any interesting sense — and at the end a bearded bloke, bulging in a white T-shirt, asked very angrily where Dawkins had said there were any. I quoted a couple of his recent tweets on the subject:

When you say X is the fastest growing religion, all you mean is that X people have babies at the fastest rate. But babies have no religion.

How dare you force your dopey unsubstantiated superstitions on innocent children too young to resist? How DARE you?

These seemed to me to suggest quite strongly that Dawkins believes that babies are born atheists. But my heckler wanted scripture.‘Where does he say this?’ he asked.‘I’ve got his book, here!’ and he pointed to his bag.‘Where does he say it? He doesn’t say it anywhere! You’re a liar!’

He reached into his bag and pulled out an iPhone, with a speaker already attached to it, and started to play a video clip in which, presumably, Richard Dawkins denied that he had ever claimed there were any atheist babies.

If this had happened even five years ago, the meeting would have been on the heckler’s side. In fact his performance was greeted by a general squirm. It’s difficult to remember the hosannas that greeted The God Delusion and the vote by Prospect’s readers that named Dawkins as Britain’s greatest public intellectual. Much of the atheist/humanist/secularist movement is now embarrassed by him, and repelled by the zeal of his cult of personality
Thinking

Blandford, UK

#30 Aug 14, 2014
Hey Lincock, why are you so obsessed by Dawkins?
I don't worship Dawkins so why do you?
If Dawkins disappeared, religion would still be dying on its arse.
Patrick wrote:
LISTEN
Andrew Brown and Daniel Trilling discuss the cult of Richard Dawkins
The other day I wrote something to upset the followers of Richard Dawkins and one of them tracked me down to a pub. I had been asked to give a talk to a group of ‘Skeptics in the Pub’ about whether there are any atheist babies — clearly not, in any interesting sense — and at the end a bearded bloke, bulging in a white T-shirt, asked very angrily where Dawkins had said there were any. I quoted a couple of his recent tweets on the subject:
When you say X is the fastest growing religion, all you mean is that X people have babies at the fastest rate. But babies have no religion.
How dare you force your dopey unsubstantiated superstitions on innocent children too young to resist? How DARE you?
These seemed to me to suggest quite strongly that Dawkins believes that babies are born atheists. But my heckler wanted scripture.‘Where does he say this?’ he asked.‘I’ve got his book, here!’ and he pointed to his bag.‘Where does he say it? He doesn’t say it anywhere! You’re a liar!’
He reached into his bag and pulled out an iPhone, with a speaker already attached to it, and started to play a video clip in which, presumably, Richard Dawkins denied that he had ever claimed there were any atheist babies.
If this had happened even five years ago, the meeting would have been on the heckler’s side. In fact his performance was greeted by a general squirm. It’s difficult to remember the hosannas that greeted The God Delusion and the vote by Prospect’s readers that named Dawkins as Britain’s greatest public intellectual. Much of the atheist/humanist/secularist movement is now embarrassed by him, and repelled by the zeal of his cult of personality
CunningLinguist

Gainesville, FL

#31 Aug 16, 2014
Patrick wrote:
<quoted text>
.........a few Atheists used to eat people...so what
Your generalizations about all religion or all atheism seem to reveal more about you than those you seem to hate.
Have a nice day
Speaking of hate and I hate to bring this up...

Matthew 6:6

The Bible is by some measures the world’s most popular christian manual. It is also shameless—a grotesque compendium of sensational ridiculous stories, unverified viral memes, anonymously sourced goatherder gossip, thinly veiled sexism, and hypocritical moralizing.

If slavery isn't wrong then nothing is wrong.

Here is Matthew routinely ignored for centuries and churches constructed.

Matthew 6:6

And when you pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men.

Truly I say to you, They have their reward. But you, when you pray, enter into your closet, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father which is in secret; and your Father which sees in secret shall reward you openly.

But when you pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Please explain alleged holy buildings and you're interpretation of Mathew 6.6
Patrick

United States

#32 Aug 16, 2014
That hatred will eat you up!
Most of what we type is ignored and we most of all know our own fallacies

“My hand is over my crotch.”

Since: Jan 10

It's time to put it to use

#33 Aug 16, 2014
Siro wrote:
Are Atheists ripping off God by defining God as a personification of Reality?
More like a personification of themselves, they all believe they are God because they believe that there is no higher power or authority than themselves.
When they realise that they as individuals cannot live up to their own expectation they will then try and be a 'collective god' usually under a type of atheist ideology such as marxism or zionism.
I cannot speak for all atheists but I do believe in a higher power-that of a collective human society.
CunningLinguist

Gainesville, FL

#34 Aug 16, 2014
True Christian witness wrote:
It takes faith to believe in the one true God of the Bible, not who preachers say he is or teachers say what god is, the Bible tells anyone who reads the Bible who God is.
Matthew 6:9. Exodus 3:15
Isaiah 45:3. Exodus 20:2
Psalms 83:18
You will have to use an old Bible to read Jehovah's name in those Scriptures, because since 1997, all Christian religions, Catholic and Protestant, which is any religion not Catholic, have had removed that name from Scripture. The name Jehovah was in the Bible over 7000 times. John 17:3 and 26
The reason the Bible printing is paid by religion, and they can't accept the name Jehovah, because they teach Jesus is God, and don't want to confuse their people.
That's quite an impassioned sermon there Reverend.

You believe in a book that has talking animals, wizards, witches, demons, sticks turning into snakes, food falling from the sky, people walking on water, and all sorts of magical, absurd and primitive stories, and you say that we are the ones that are confused? LOL

If the Prodigal Son's a parable, and if Adam and Eve are metaphors, then maybe God is just figure of speech.

If the answers to prayer are merely what God wills all along, then why pray?

The next time some true believer tells you that 'separation of church and state' does not appear in our founding document, tell them to stop using the word 'trinity.'

The word 'trinity' appears nowhere in the bible. Neither does Rapture, or Second Coming, or Original Sin.

If they are still unfazed (or unphrased) by this, then add Omniscience, Omnipresence, Supernatural, Transcendence, Afterlife, Deity, Divinity, Theology, Monotheism, Missionary, Immaculate Conception, Christmas, Christianity, Evangelical, Fundamentalist, Methodist, Catholic, Pope, Cardinal, Catechism, Purgatory, Penance, Transubstantiation, Excommunication, Dogma, Chastity, Unpardonable Sin, Infallibility, Inerrancy, Incarnation, Epiphany, Sermon, Eucharist, the Lord's Prayer, Good Friday, Doubting Thomas, Advent, Sunday School, Dead Sea, Golden Rule, Moral, Morality, Ethics, Patriotism, Atheism, Apostasy.
CunningLinguist

Gainesville, FL

#35 Aug 16, 2014
Patrick wrote:
LISTEN
Andrew Brown and Daniel Trilling discuss the cult of Richard Dawkins
The other day I wrote something to upset the followers of Richard Dawkins and one of them tracked me down to a pub. I had been asked to give a talk to a group of ‘Skeptics in the Pub’ about whether there are any atheist babies — clearly not, in any interesting sense — < content removed > and at the embarrassed by him, and repelled by the zeal of his cult of personality
Patrick... all babies are atheists.

In fact, all children are atheists until they reach an age where they can truly understand religious doctrine, which will mean well into their teens.

Children can mimic their parents in prayer, for example, by closing their eyes and clasping their hands together, and repeating some words that they don't understand.

Beyond praying though, there is so much more to consider when parents proclaim that their little ones are Christian or Jewish or Hindu or Muslim and so on.

To say that someone is "Christian" is to say that the someone understands:
(1) the story of the life of Jesus as told in the Bible;
(2) the concepts of heaven and hell;
(3) the concept of "faith" in an invisible
entity;
(4) sin;
(5) forgiveness;
(6) the Triune God and
(7) communion.

With all this complicated theology in mind, picture a 5-month-old infant contentedly filling her diaper, and try to convince anyone that she understands all of the above.

If she does not, she is not a Christian.

I don't care how much water you sprinkle on her head, or how many magical words you recite over her as she howls in a church, she doesn't have the foggiest idea about any of it.

Which means she cannot be a Christian.

But whatever religious doctrines are held to be infallible by any religion, they are so held by adults only. Only adults can begin to grasp the concepts involved (and often convoluted) in religious belief.

Therefore only adults can be religious.

Therefore all babies are atheists.

--

Theists do not think this through, or refuse to think lest they disturb their fragile faith.

How can any rituals done over/for/around a baby affect the baby's understanding of the world around it? The infant doesn't understand language or geography or personal property or income taxes or.....anything at all, really.

To then present that baby to a priest and after some water sprinkles and some solemn words say that the baby is now Catholic, means that the baby magically understands the difference between a venal sin and a mortal sin.

The baby understands nothing more than was understood before the religious ceremony.
And, since the infant in question does not understand, let alone believe, in any kind of God at all, it is an atheist -- a being without religious
belief.
CunningLinguist

Gainesville, FL

#36 Aug 16, 2014
Patrick wrote:
That hatred will eat you up!
Most of what we type is ignored and we most of all know our own fallacies
Quote that literately needs no further explanation.
Do you recognize it?

"If any man come to me, and HATE not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple".--Luke 14:26

As for you... I think this fits superbly.

And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.--Exodus 33:23

Disclaimer:
Mistakes made by Siri are always forgiven and always go to paradise.
Patrick

United States

#37 Aug 16, 2014
CunningLinguist wrote:
<quoted text>
Patrick... all babies are atheists.
In fact, all children are atheists until they reach an age where they can truly understand religious doctrine, which will mean well into their teens.
Children can mimic their parents in prayer, for example, by closing their eyes and clasping their hands together, and repeating some words that they don't understand.
Beyond praying though, there is so much more to consider when parents proclaim that their little ones are Christian or Jewish or Hindu or Muslim and so on.
To say that someone is "Christian" is to say that the someone understands:
(1) the story of the life of Jesus as told in the Bible;
(2) the concepts of heaven and hell;
(3) the concept of "faith" in an invisible
entity;
(4) sin;
(5) forgiveness;
(6) the Triune God and
(7) communion.
With all this complicated theology in mind, picture a 5-month-old infant contentedly filling her diaper, and try to convince anyone that she understands all of the above.
If she does not, she is not a Christian.
I don't care how much water you sprinkle on her head, or how many magical words you recite over her as she howls in a church, she doesn't have the foggiest idea about any of it.
Which means she cannot be a Christian.
But whatever religious doctrines are held to be infallible by any religion, they are so held by adults only. Only adults can begin to grasp the concepts involved (and often convoluted) in religious belief.
Therefore only adults can be religious.
Therefore all babies are atheists.
--
Theists do not think this through, or refuse to think lest they disturb their fragile faith.
How can any rituals done over/for/around a baby affect the baby's understanding of the world around it? The infant doesn't understand language or geography or personal property or income taxes or.....anything at all, really.
To then present that baby to a priest and after some water sprinkles and some solemn words say that the baby is now Catholic, means that the baby magically understands the difference between a venal sin and a mortal sin.
The baby understands nothing more than was understood before the religious ceremony.
And, since the infant in question does not understand, let alone believe, in any kind of God at all, it is an atheist -- a being without religious
belief.
"... all babies are atheists...." a bit of amusing "Dawkins-talk " LOL
CunningLinguist

Gainesville, FL

#38 Aug 16, 2014
Patrick wrote:
<quoted text>
"... all babies are atheists...." a bit of amusing "Dawkins-talk " LOL
What part of that post was not true?
Are you really that obtuse?

A bit of amusing Neil Degrasse Tyson-talk

"God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance."
~ Neil DeGrasse Tyson

https://m.youtube.com/watch...
Patrick

United States

#39 Aug 16, 2014
CunningLinguist wrote:
<quoted text>
What part of that post was not true?
Are you really that obtuse?
A bit of amusing Neil Degrasse Tyson-talk
"God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance."
~ Neil DeGrasse Tyson
https://m.youtube.com/watch...
youtube is not evidence of anything at all...:-)
State your proof?
Patrick

United States

#40 Aug 16, 2014
"Tyson has argued that the concept of intelligent design thwarts the advance of scientific knowledge"
LOL "A Fraidy Cat "
Thinking

Blandford, UK

#41 Aug 17, 2014
Hey Lincock, why are you so obsessed by Dawkins?
I don't worship Dawkins so why do you?
If Dawkins disappeared, religion would still be dying on its arse.
Patrick wrote:
<quoted text>
"... all babies are atheists...." a bit of amusing "Dawkins-talk " LOL

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