KJV

Brooklyn, NY

#26 Oct 16, 2012
Derek4 posted this. I believe it needs to be posted in response to your post.

"Definition of atheism

“... there is an important logical difference between believing that there is no God and not believing that there is a God. Compare my saying ,“I believe that there is no gold on Mars” with my saying “I do not believe that there is gold on Mars.” If I have no opinion on the matter, then I do not believe that there is gold on Mars, and I do not believe that there is no gold on Mars. There’s a difference between saying,“I do not believe (p)” and “I believe (not-p).” Logically where you place the negation makes a world of difference.

But where your atheist friends err is in claiming that atheism involves only not believing that there is a God rather than believing that there is no God.

There’s a history behind this. Certain atheists in the mid-twentieth century were promoting the so-called “presumption of atheism.” Atheism is a sort of default position, and the theist bears a special burden of proof with regard to his belief that God exists.

So understood, such an alleged presumption is clearly mistaken. For the assertion that “There is no God” is just as much a claim to knowledge as is the assertion that “There is a God.” Therefore, the former assertion requires justification just as the latter does. It is the agnostic who makes no knowledge claim at all with respect to God’s existence. He confesses that he doesn’t know whether there is a God or whether there is no God.

But when you look more closely at how protagonists of the presumption of atheism used the term “atheist,” you discover that they were defining the word in a non-standard way, synonymous with “non-theist." So understood the term would encompass agnostics and traditional atheists, along with those who think the question meaningless (verificationists). As Antony Flew confesses,


the word ‘atheist’ has in the present context to be construed in an unusual way. Nowadays it is normally taken to mean someone who explicitly denies the existence ... of God ... But here it has to be understood not positively but negatively, with the originally Greek prefix ‘a-’ being read in this same way in ‘atheist’ as it customarily is in ... words as ‘amoral’.... In this interpretation an atheist becomes not someone who positively asserts the non-existence of God, but someone who is simply not a theist.(A Companion to Philosophy of Religion, ed. Philip Quinn and Charles Taliaferro [Oxford: Blackwell, 1997], s.v.“The Presumption of Atheism,” by Antony Flew)

Such a re-definition of the word “atheist” trivializes the claim of the presumption of atheism, for on this definition, atheism ceases to be a view. It is merely a psychological state which is shared by people who hold various views or no view at all. On this re-definition, even babies, who hold no opinion at all on the matter, count as atheists! In fact, our cat Muff counts as an atheist on this definition, since she has (to my knowledge) no belief in God.

One would still require justification in order to know either that God exists or that He does not exist, which is the question we’re really interested in.

So why, you might wonder, would atheists be anxious to so trivialize their position? Here I agree with you that a deceptive game is being played by many atheists. If atheism is taken to be a view, namely the view that there is no God, then atheists must shoulder their share of the burden of proof to support this view. But many atheists admit freely that they cannot sustain such a burden of proof. So they try to shirk their epistemic responsibility by re-defining atheism so that it is no longer a view but just a psychological condition which as such makes no assertions. They are really closet agnostics who want to claim the mantle of atheism without shouldering its responsibilities.
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/definition-of-... ;
KJV

Brooklyn, NY

#27 Oct 16, 2012
SupaAFC wrote:
<quoted text>All those studies show is people are happier when they are socialising with others contrary to being cut off from their social circles. Being religious or atheist makes no difference other than giving you an avenue to meet like-minded people.
It's a CHURCH for atheist!
They pray!
KJV

Brooklyn, NY

#28 Oct 16, 2012
SupaAFC wrote:
<quoted text>Well, gee, when your two sources are both Christian websites that -sure- sounds reliable to me.

By the way: when you are setting up sock puppets to make your arguments look like they have any kind of support, at least try to change the way your characters type their posts.
Sounds like good advice. If I plain on do your puppet thing that is.
KJV

Brooklyn, NY

#29 Oct 16, 2012
SupaAFC wrote:
<quoted text>Well, gee, when your two sources are both Christian websites that -sure- sounds reliable to me.

By the way: when you are setting up sock puppets to make your arguments look like they have any kind of support, at least try to change the way your characters type their posts.
Posted on another thread

- Skeptic - also known as
Bob of Quantum-Faith
Reason Personified
and many others who have come and gone.
He uses a technology called onion routing to make it appear that he is many people from different parts of the world.(also so he can evade bans and not get tracked down)
Stinking troll lives in his parent's basement and harasses people on Topix all day.
KJV

Brooklyn, NY

#30 Oct 16, 2012
the truth wrote:
Regardless if your a Christian or atheist there is still nothing to prove a god does or doesn't exist. Just books that claim it. Why tell people to have faith instead prove it.
Prove what?
KJV

Brooklyn, NY

#31 Oct 16, 2012
-Skeptic- wrote:
Theists can be so pathetic. Even after they lose the definition war on atheism, they continue lying about what atheism is, claiming its a religion...
- Skeptic - also known as
Bob of Quantum-Faith
Reason Personified
and many others who have come and gone.
He uses a technology called onion routing to make it appear that he is many people from different parts of the world.(also so he can evade bans and not get tracked down)
Stinking troll lives in his parent's basement and harasses people on Topix all day.

Skippy - Bobby. What ever.
The definition is the definition.
You can't twist it hard enough to change the real meaning. Bobby!

athe·ist\ˈā-thē-ist\
noun
: one who believes that there is no deity

PERIOD.

Since: Dec 10

Orefield, PA

#32 Oct 16, 2012
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
We don't have anything to worry about from atheist.
"Atheism, as defined by the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, the Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, and other philosophy reference works, is the denial of the existence of God."
Wikipedia:
"Denial
Denial (also called abnegation) is a defense mechanism postulated by Sigmund Freud, in which a person is faced with a fact that is too uncomfortable to accept and rejects it instead, insisting that it is not true despite what may be overwhelming evidence. The subject may use:
simple denial: deny the reality of the unpleasant fact altogether"
Just as christianity is a philosophy, it is no surprise that people who believe in that same myth would define atheism that way.

Your desperation is showing.
I guess when you can't defend your own belief, you have to go that route.

Since: Dec 10

Orefield, PA

#33 Oct 16, 2012
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
It's a CHURCH for atheist!
They pray!
Oh! That must prove that your god is real, right?
LOL!!!
Still mired in pathetic desperation I see.
Do you really believe that your sad attempt to divert attention away from the fact that your little invisible sky pixe is nothing more than a figment of your imagination is going to work? LOL!!! Unless you have some proof that your god is real, it remains a childish myth for the weak-minded.

Since: Dec 10

Orefield, PA

#34 Oct 16, 2012
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
It's a CHURCH for atheist!
They pray!
And whom do they pray to? An invisible god myth?
This reminds me of that idiot "educated what". He went through all kinds of contortions to prove that LeVey Satanists are atheists. They are, but they are simply a group of people misusing a name for publicity. In the end it didn't matter. He couldn't prove his god was real, and was laughed out of the thread.

Since: Dec 10

Orefield, PA

#35 Oct 16, 2012
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
- Skeptic - also known as
Bob of Quantum-Faith
Reason Personified
and many others who have come and gone.
He uses a technology called onion routing to make it appear that he is many people from different parts of the world.(also so he can evade bans and not get tracked down)
Stinking troll lives in his parent's basement and harasses people on Topix all day.
Skippy - Bobby. What ever.
The definition is the definition.
You can't twist it hard enough to change the real meaning. Bobby!
athe·ist\ˈā-thē-ist\
noun
: one who believes that there is no deity
PERIOD.
You keep posting that as if it were fact. Do you have any proof that those people are the same person? No? Figures, when it comes to dishonesty, you godbots have a monopoly. It's just like when you use a single definiton as if it were the only one, when in fact you have been shown that it is the exception amongst definitons for the word. But you don't care do you. Lying for jebus is something you godbot are encouraged to do.
the truth

Ashburn, VA

#36 Oct 16, 2012
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>Prove what?
You believe there is a god based on what?

“There is no god.”

Since: Jan 12

USA

#37 Oct 16, 2012
Atheist are not afraid of facts. Fact, the christian god does not exist, see it did not scare me.
KJV

Brooklyn, NY

#38 Oct 16, 2012
the truth wrote:
<quoted text>You believe there is a god based on what?
Is this a real question?

Are you totally new to the form?
KJV

Brooklyn, NY

#39 Oct 16, 2012
LOL in a suit wrote:
Atheist are not afraid of facts. Fact, the christian god does not exist, see it did not scare me.
Hi Bobby / Skippy etc.

“There is no god.”

Since: Jan 12

USA

#40 Oct 16, 2012
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Bobby / Skippy etc.
Hi, toasted religious nut.
KittenKoder

Sydney, Australia

#41 Oct 17, 2012
Fact: Atheists subscribe to marxist type creeds (except if they're rich)

Fact: Atheists are all believers of moral relativism, their sense of right and wrong depends on their personal circumstance and whim

Fact: Atheists are narcissists
SupaAFC

Leeds, UK

#42 Oct 17, 2012
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
We don't have anything to worry about from atheist.
"Atheism, as defined by the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, the Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, and other philosophy reference works, is the denial of the existence of God."
Wikipedia:
"Denial
Denial (also called abnegation) is a defense mechanism postulated by Sigmund Freud, in which a person is faced with a fact that is too uncomfortable to accept and rejects it instead, insisting that it is not true despite what may be overwhelming evidence. The subject may use:
simple denial: deny the reality of the unpleasant fact altogether"
How ironic. A guy who denies that there is no evidence for his deity claims that atheists are in denial about non existent evidence.
SupaAFC

Leeds, UK

#43 Oct 17, 2012
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
It's a CHURCH for atheist!
They pray!
Pray to... who? Richard Dawkins?
SupaAFC

Leeds, UK

#44 Oct 17, 2012
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Sounds like good advice. If I plain on do your puppet thing that is.
Perhaps a good start would be to diversify where your sock puppets come from and actually registering them onto Topix instead of making them all unregistered and from Australia.

Why do you theists act so dishonestly?
SupaAFC

Leeds, UK

#45 Oct 17, 2012
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Posted on another thread
- Skeptic - also known as
Bob of Quantum-Faith
Reason Personified
and many others who have come and gone.
He uses a technology called onion routing to make it appear that he is many people from different parts of the world.(also so he can evade bans and not get tracked down)
Stinking troll lives in his parent's basement and harasses people on Topix all day.
So that is where you got your sock puppeteering tactics from?

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