Debating the God question

Sep 29, 2013 Full story: The Gleaner 83

Ian Boyne I am happy to see more Jamaicans debating the issue of whether God really exists and the matter of science versus religion - or whether the two are compatible.

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“My name is Trunks...”

Since: Jun 10

the alternate future

#1 Oct 2, 2013
An interesting article, no doubt about that. But again, there is that irritating superiority complex some theists seem to possess; that we atheists are all arrogant people. Dawkins is definitely arrogant, I'll agree there. But Hitchens? Heck no, Hitchens was a brilliant man with brilliant points on the world.

Do we atheists have a building that we gather in to worship all the time? Do we gamble off people's money in bingo tournaments? Do we have our own private schools because we feel our children shouldn't be exposed to public school? Do we shove our beliefs down people's throats?

The answer to all of these questions is a big no. Mostly, it's theists who do most of the grandstanding, not the atheists. The celebrity atheists are courageous enough to come out in the open. It is still difficult for many of us atheists and agnostics to come out in public for fear of how our religious friends, neighbors, and relatives may treat us.

My attempts at coming out have sometimes been less than stellar. I've had to end a relationship with a few friends because they couldn't tolerate me being non-religious. I was at the time, thinking over how silly that was; what the heck, why can't they just put up with my beliefs the way I put up with theirs?

I was called a weirdo once because I didn't believe in God. But I don't let it get me down. I just believe what I believe, which is in humans, in humanity, not in age-old myths that hold no relevance today, not in barbaric superstition.

If some of us wish to cling onto those old tales, then you are free to do so. However, do not make me believe in them. I am perfectly willing to let live and let live as long as believers do not antagonize me for not believing.

The guy in this article is a little silly, though-suggesting fairy tales can mingle with science.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#2 Oct 4, 2013
Everything can be simplified since one thing is certain. We will all go into a box 6 feet underground, or most of us, anyway. I can do 2 things: 1)HOPE that He is not there; or 2)TRUST that He will be. Only those two options. The second is positive, and seems like a good deal for a louse like me. I prefer it. Why go further? Nothing can be proven either way-God or no God.....
Thinking

UK

#3 Oct 4, 2013
There are many other options, which is why Pacal's Wager is flawed.

For instance, however unlikely it may seem, there may be a god that rewards non-believers better than religious sycophants.

You can't disprove this.
roseinthorn__ wrote:
Everything can be simplified since one thing is certain. We will all go into a box 6 feet underground, or most of us, anyway. I can do 2 things: 1)HOPE that He is not there; or 2)TRUST that He will be. Only those two options. The second is positive, and seems like a good deal for a louse like me. I prefer it. Why go further? Nothing can be proven either way-God or no God.....
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#4 Oct 4, 2013
Lelouch0 wrote:
... Dawkins is definitely arrogant, I'll agree there. But Hitchens? Heck no, Hitchens was a brilliant man with brilliant points on the world.....
Hmm. I came to the opposite conclusion. I don't think Hitchens was much help.

What is it that Prof Dawkins has said that makes him 'definitely arrogant'?
Thinking

UK

#5 Oct 4, 2013
I loved Hitchens' polemics. His 90 minute debate with Galloway is a classic. But I didn't think he was always accurate, whereas Dawkins seems much more measured and considered.

Maybe Dawkins' accuracy is really what causes his detractors the most discomfort.
EdSed wrote:
<quoted text>Hmm. I came to the opposite conclusion. I don't think Hitchens was much help.
What is it that Prof Dawkins has said that makes him 'definitely arrogant'?
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#6 Oct 4, 2013
Thinking wrote:
I loved Hitchens' polemics. His 90 minute debate with Galloway is a classic. But I didn't think he was always accurate, whereas Dawkins seems much more measured and considered.
Maybe Dawkins' accuracy is really what causes his detractors the most discomfort.
<quoted text>
My feeling exactly.

I like the fact that Prof Dawkins seems to attack specific consequences of religion, such as when Muslim medical students in the UK were walking out of lectures when evolution was mentioned. There were whole classes of Muslims (and occasionally Christians) leaving British schools dismissive of evolution and convinced of Creationism. No religious leaders spoke out and the education authorities were granting them good reports. It's a good job someone said something.

Apparently, Dawkins got along very well with people like the Archbishop of Canterbury too. None of that seems especially indicative of arrogance.
Thinking

UK

#7 Oct 4, 2013
There's an Evolutionary Biologist called Steve Jones who lectures at UCL. He despairs of clearly otherwise bright muslim students walking out of Evolution lectures.

I've seen Rowan Williams and Dawkins getting on just fine too. With Dawkins, it appears to be a case of treat as you would be treated.
EdSed wrote:
<quoted text>My feeling exactly.
I like the fact that Prof Dawkins seems to attack specific consequences of religion, such as when Muslim medical students in the UK were walking out of lectures when evolution was mentioned. There were whole classes of Muslims (and occasionally Christians) leaving British schools dismissive of evolution and convinced of Creationism. No religious leaders spoke out and the education authorities were granting them good reports. It's a good job someone said something.
Apparently, Dawkins got along very well with people like the Archbishop of Canterbury too. None of that seems especially indicative of arrogance.
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#8 Oct 4, 2013
Since God has been absent from history for thousands of years, belief in him is by faith only. None of us have witnessed anything. There is coming a time when God will raise up a final prophet from among us. This person will be greater than Moses and will usher in a golden age. The Jews will accept him as the Messiah and Muslims as the Mahdi. Other religions will follow except Christians who will have a negative view of this person and cause him to be killed. Everything in the OT will be fulfilled including the Messiahs resurrection on the Mount of Olives. When he returns to spirit form, he will be God.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#9 Oct 5, 2013
susanblange wrote:
Since God has been absent from history for thousands of years, belief in him is by faith only. None of us have witnessed anything. There is coming a time when God will raise up a final prophet from among us. This person will be greater than Moses and will usher in a golden age. The Jews will accept him as the Messiah and Muslims as the Mahdi. Other religions will follow except Christians who will have a negative view of this person and cause him to be killed. Everything in the OT will be fulfilled including the Messiahs resurrection on the Mount of Olives. When he returns to spirit form, he will be God.
Read how this mentally ill person admits they have not witnessed anything or have no evidence, but they still continue to lie about god to themselves and others.

These people take no responsibility for what they claim.
KJV

United States

#10 Oct 8, 2013
Pretty simple actually. The universe (I mean the whole multiverse, big bang or not isn't relevant) has either existed forever in some state or another, or it was at some point created

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#11 Oct 8, 2013
KJV wrote:
Pretty simple actually. The universe (I mean the whole multiverse, big bang or not isn't relevant) has either existed forever in some state or another, or it was at some point created
What is your proof that it was created, the buybull? LOL!

Ask that god about the horse drawn "god defeating" device, then ask him how he had the gall to claim he made something that puts trillions of horses to shame, but back in the real world, the horse and the conveyance it pulled, has hands down beaten that god.
That he was beaten is the buybull's way of saying Ha ha, GOTCHA!, there ain't no god.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#12 Oct 9, 2013
KJV wrote:
Pretty simple actually. The universe (I mean the whole multiverse, big bang or not isn't relevant) has either existed forever in some state or another, or it was at some point created
You need to focus on proving the god your cult sent you here to lie to us about. Let scientists worry about the nature of the universe.
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#13 Oct 9, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
You need to focus on proving the god your cult sent you here to lie to us about. Let scientists worry about the nature of the universe.
Archaeology proves the bible reliable time and time again. We don't need to lie about anything. The entire world will not believe until the resurrection on the Mount of Olives. "...in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one". Zechariah 14:9. Christianity will disappear and their triune god will be forgotten. There will be everlasting peace and a one world government. The middle east is set up to receive the Messiah.

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#14 Oct 9, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>Archaeology proves the bible reliable time and time again. We don't need to lie about anything. The entire world will not believe until the resurrection on the Mount of Olives. "...in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one". Zechariah 14:9. Christianity will disappear and their triune god will be forgotten. There will be everlasting peace and a one world government. The middle east is set up to receive the Messiah.
Archeology, history, biology, science itself are all are having one hell of a time with, the flat earth, 4 legged insects, Moses, but hey Egypt does exist.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#15 Oct 9, 2013
KJV wrote:
Pretty simple actually. The universe (I mean the whole multiverse, big bang or not isn't relevant) has either existed forever in some state or another, or it was at some point created
What is your proof that these are the only options? From what I can see, the options are that it has always existed or that it began to exist. The latter does not necessarily imply a creator.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#16 Oct 10, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>Archaeology proves the bible reliable time and time again. We don't need to lie about anything. The entire world will not believe until the resurrection on the Mount of Olives. "...in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one". Zechariah 14:9. Christianity will disappear and their triune god will be forgotten. There will be everlasting peace and a one world government. The middle east is set up to receive the Messiah.
Lying about your cult to defend it is a stupid thing to do. We see it everyday in mentally I'll brainwashed creationists like yourself,

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#17 Oct 10, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
Lying about your cult to defend it is a stupid thing to do. We see it everyday in mentally I'll brainwashed creationists like yourself,
------

I am ready. Try me. But before you do, give me a response to this question of mine. I say that you yourself are a live proof for the existence of God. Evidence? Tell me, did you create yourself or someone else created you?
Amused

Lowell, MA

#18 Oct 10, 2013
Ben_Masada wrote:
<quoted text>
------
I am ready. Try me. But before you do, give me a response to this question of mine. I say that you yourself are a live proof for the existence of God. Evidence? Tell me, did you create yourself or someone else created you?
By the very same logic, then, did your god create himself, or did he have parents, grandparents, etc.

“In God we trust”

Since: Dec 12

Cape Town, South Africa

#19 Oct 10, 2013
Amused wrote:
<quoted text>
By the very same logic, then, did your god create himself, or did he have parents, grandparents, etc.
God is eternal, dust isn't.
Amused

Lowell, MA

#20 Oct 10, 2013
Carchar king wrote:
<quoted text>
God is eternal, dust isn't.
Proof?

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