“Right click Left click Yay!”

Since: Dec 10

Nehwon

#746 Jun 4, 2012
Ben_Masada wrote:
<quoted text>
-------
My only problem against atheists is that they claim to know for sure what they cannot explain, and to discard for sure what they do not know. Just like fundamentalistic theists with their beliefs
by faith. Probability must be the word. To be open minded, which is the concept of probability. What do we know, for heaven's sake? The statement of the Psalmist in Psalm 14:1 about being a fool, goes equally to the atheist who discards the existence of God as well as to the theist who confirms for sure something he does not know.
Ben
Ahh, the cry that everyone else is close minded that fundamentalists cry. And yes, you sound like a fundamentalist.

Many atheists have read your holy books and found them quite lacking. So what else do you have as evidence? Or am I being unreasonable by asking for something in which to apply reason?

“Right click Left click Yay!”

Since: Dec 10

Nehwon

#747 Jun 4, 2012
Ben_Masada wrote:
<quoted text>
--------
Don't just wait; do something about it. Talk to the Arabs. Tell them that all we need is the upperhand in the Government of Israel.
Jews cannot be governed by Gentiles in the Land of Israel. In the Diaspora, there is no problem. We can be subject to all Gentiles, no matter what they are or what they think. But in our Land, it is impossible. When the Romans governed us in the First Century, there was no other people they lost more legions to than to the Jews. Among the Gentiles, we are like lambs, but in the Land of Israel we have got to have the lion's share.
Ben
Meh. At this point I'd say "have fun storming the castles" except our Christian evangelicals would certainly try to get the US involved in the conflict.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#749 Jun 5, 2012
greymouser wrote:
<quoted text>
Meh. At this point I'd say "have fun storming the castles" except our Christian evangelicals would certainly try to get the US involved in the conflict.
let the American fundies go fight on their own, Haliburton would fund them and Cheney, Rove, and Palin can lead them into battle. trouble is, the extremist muslims, jews, and Christians all hate intelligent persons, moderates and humane persons more than they hate the extremists of other religions!
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#750 Jun 5, 2012
greymouser wrote:
<quoted text>
Ahh, the cry that everyone else is close minded that fundamentalists cry. And yes, you sound like a fundamentalist.
Many atheists have read your holy books and found them quite lacking. So what else do you have as evidence? Or am I being unreasonable by asking for something in which to apply reason?
that was to Ben, and he misstates what atheism is, so how can anyone trust him? he also does not clearly explain his own views. he just issues edicts about probability without clearly defining and explaining what he means by it. however, skeptic is an atheist who does claim to know and have proof that there is not a God, or at least not Ben's God, and I think no two people could better waste each other's time that those two.

a theist - means not a theist - anything more is up to the individual atheist to define for himself. and is not a part of the clear, simple, greek-root-based definition.
KJV

United States

#753 Jun 5, 2012
Ben_Masada wrote:
<quoted text>---------

Yes, and I confirm that the sins of the fathers do not get carried down to the children. The passage you put to me is clear enough that the children who get condemned by the sins of their fathers, are the sins that they continue with and not the sins committed by the fathers. The text speaks about the children that, through the same behavior of their fathers, adopt the same hate of their fathers towards God. Please Greymouser, why is it so hard to be settled in your mind? Are you frustrated that something you have believed for so long has turned out to be wrong? Don't worry, as long as one is alive there is still time to retract.
Ben
Ben you're fantastic

Keep it up!
KJV

United States

#755 Jun 5, 2012
greymouser wrote:
<quoted text>I see you try to dance around the question.

Would you extend the same historical right to a land if another group of people could demonstrate their ancestors were there before you?

My guess is that you would try to deny them the very same "right" that you are trying to argue in your favor because it would not be beneficial to you.
The bible for tells the return of his people to that land. It is one of the signs of the end times. He also says that the signs of the end time are like that of mountain peaks of a distant mountain range. While from a distant these peaks look to be close together but close up you see great distance between the peaks. God usual deals with events like this about a generation apart ( most of the time that is around 40 years )
Israel became a nation again in 1948
So the next event would be somewhere one might guess in the 1980 to 1990

Is if possible that the AntiChrist is already walking the planet?
KJV

United States

#756 Jun 5, 2012
greymouser wrote:
<quoted text>"The passage you put to me is clear enough that the children who get condemned by the sins of their fathers, are the sins that they continue with..."

So the children are assumed that they will also sin just like their father?

I like how you try to twist this as I'm unsettled in my mind when I point out an obvious contradiction as it's my fault now and I just don't get it.

So you've now said that children are not punished by the sins of their father. But they are going to do the same sins anyway so they should be punished.
Deuteronomy 5:9 ESV

You shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,
KJV

United States

#757 Jun 5, 2012
greymouser wrote:
<quoted text>Ahh, the cry that everyone else is close minded that fundamentalists cry. And yes, you sound like a fundamentalist.

Many atheists have read your holy books and found them quite lacking. So what else do you have as evidence? Or am I being unreasonable by asking for something in which to apply reason?
Ahh got it in there didn't you. "your Hole Bible"

I don't think you've even seen his bible.

The correct english sentence should have read like this "many Atheist have read the Holy Bible"
KJV

United States

#758 Jun 5, 2012
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>Skippy

Christians pray for Gods will be done.

The bible tells us a main precursor to the second coming of Christ is that Israel will be at peace with all or her neighbors.

So we watch and wait.
We pray Glory to our God
God is not the genie in the lamp you
Atheist seem to think he is.
Deuteronomy 5:9 ESV

You shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

You (Skippy) and Your children and their children and their children and their children will also pay for your sin.

You would be better off getting snipped.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#759 Jun 6, 2012
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Deuteronomy 5:9 ESV
You shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,
You (Skippy) and Your children and their children and their children and their children will also pay for your sin.
You would be better off getting snipped.
Not afraid of your imagination. Grow up.

Your silly little words have meaning or effect in the real world.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#760 Jun 6, 2012
Besides, I thought you theists were supposed to be kind and forgiving? but all I see here is you sitting in the corner weak and pathetic, cursing my children's children!!!

You sad lonely individual. Get help.

Your life doesn't have to be this sh*t, seriously.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#761 Jun 6, 2012
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> that was to Ben, and he misstates what atheism is, so how can anyone trust him? he also does not clearly explain his own views. he just issues edicts about probability without clearly defining and explaining what he means by it. however, skeptic is an atheist who does claim to know and have proof that there is not a God, or at least not Ben's God, and I think no two people could better waste each other's time that those two.
a theist - means not a theist - anything more is up to the individual atheist to define for himself. and is not a part of the clear, simple, greek-root-based definition.
I don't claim to know or have proof, its THE WORLD that has the evidence against god.

I've already explained the proof and you read it, so I don't know why you are choosing to misrepresent me now.

Here it is again, elaborated upon: The water tight proof of why god isn't real:

1a. God is real
2a. Real things leave physical evidence
3a. In the entire history of the planet, not a single morsel of physical evidence
4a. Therefore God is not real.

+

1b. Anyone that defines a god and claims it to be real, claims that it has characteristics that affect THIS physical reality.
2b. Since this claim is contrary to 2a. their claims are lies and are proven invalid.
3b. Anything that has internally inconsistent properties can be proven not to exist: EG. A Square circle, A real pen you can hold that is both blue and black at the same time - impossible for it to exist and proven.
4b. Any person that defines the characteristics of god will find that they are internally inconsistent like 3b.
5b. Hence a defined god with internal inconsistency, simply cannot exist.

If after reading this, you STILL think I am biased, or weighted or wrong, I want YOU to SHOW ME WHERE.

The fact is that nobody can and has. Seeing this kind of proof should be a wake up call to people that are honest with themselves about what they believe and what they imagine.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#762 Jun 6, 2012
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't claim to know or have proof, its THE WORLD that has the evidence against god.
I've already explained the proof and you read it, so I don't know why you are choosing to misrepresent me now.
Here it is again, elaborated upon: The water tight proof of why god isn't real:
1a. God is real
2a. Real things leave physical evidence
3a. In the entire history of the planet, not a single morsel of physical evidence
4a. Therefore God is not real.
+
1b. Anyone that defines a god and claims it to be real, claims that it has characteristics that affect THIS physical reality.
2b. Since this claim is contrary to 2a. their claims are lies and are proven invalid.
3b. Anything that has internally inconsistent properties can be proven not to exist: EG. A Square circle, A real pen you can hold that is both blue and black at the same time - impossible for it to exist and proven.
4b. Any person that defines the characteristics of god will find that they are internally inconsistent like 3b.
5b. Hence a defined god with internal inconsistency, simply cannot exist.
If after reading this, you STILL think I am biased, or weighted or wrong, I want YOU to SHOW ME WHERE.
The fact is that nobody can and has. Seeing this kind of proof should be a wake up call to people that are honest with themselves about what they believe and what they imagine.
Yes-- the above applies to all defined gods, anywhere on earth.

Of course-- for the undefined god?

Your logic breaks down.

But.

Nobody, anywhere, anywhen, is wanting to promote an undefined deity of any kind.

So who cares about undefined deities? They do not affect reality-- so they do not count.

...

... and ...

... they may as well not exist, for all the affect they have (none).

“Right click Left click Yay!”

Since: Dec 10

Nehwon

#763 Jun 9, 2012
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
The bible for tells the return of his people to that land. It is one of the signs of the end times. He also says that the signs of the end time are like that of mountain peaks of a distant mountain range. While from a distant these peaks look to be close together but close up you see great distance between the peaks. God usual deals with events like this about a generation apart ( most of the time that is around 40 years )
Israel became a nation again in 1948
So the next event would be somewhere one might guess in the 1980 to 1990
Is if possible that the AntiChrist is already walking the planet?
This is actually an exemplary post demonstrating the "logical" thinking of a theist follower (not a leader).

It's completely fractured trying to toss in a fact here and there with a lot of speculation, a vague analogy introduced to confuse and unwitting arrogance. Take a look at how you claim you know God's plans and intentions (about a generation apart). And then you set up your escape by bringing up the AntiChrist as a boogieman to blame.

It must be very hard work and tiring trying to shoehorn world events into your understanding of the Bible.

“Right click Left click Yay!”

Since: Dec 10

Nehwon

#764 Jun 9, 2012
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Deuteronomy 5:9 ESV
You shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,
Who's argument are you trying to support here? Mine or Ben?

I'm saying Deuteronomy says children are responsible for the sins of the father. Ben is saying that Ezekiel overrides that.

“Right click Left click Yay!”

Since: Dec 10

Nehwon

#765 Jun 9, 2012
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Ahh got it in there didn't you. "your Hole Bible"
I don't think you've even seen his bible.
The correct english sentence should have read like this "many Atheist have read the Holy Bible"
"your Hole Bible"?

How about if you read what I wrote instead of reading what you'd like to think I wrote?

“Right click Left click Yay!”

Since: Dec 10

Nehwon

#766 Jun 9, 2012
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Deuteronomy 5:9 ESV
You shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,
You (Skippy) and Your children and their children and their children and their children will also pay for your sin.
You would be better off getting snipped.
So children are responsible for the sins of their fathers. Looks like you need to argue with Ben about this.

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#767 Jun 12, 2012
greymouser wrote:
<quoted text>
I see you try to dance around the question.
Would you extend the same historical right to a land if another group of people could demonstrate their ancestors were there before you?
My guess is that you would try to deny them the very same "right" that you are trying to argue in your favor because it would not be beneficial to you.
----------

With such a good dancer like you, the only thing I can do is to keep the pace.

Regarding sharing this Land with any legitimate claimer, your guess is wrong, because, the answer is most definitely, YES. We are willing to share the Land of Israel with any legitimate claimer, including the Arabs, so-called Palestinians, as long as we remain in the Government of the State. But that's not what they want. According to their covenant, they want us out of the Middle East. So, they must fight if they can to push us into the sea. And so far, they have proved that they can't. We are back to stay in the Land that has been ours for about 4000 years.
Ben

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#768 Jun 12, 2012
greymouser wrote:
<quoted text>
And yet, your arguments are based on that Israel is the promised land to a chosen people. You slide in and out of the anthropomorphic attributes when it suits your needs or when the same is used against you.
----------

There is absolutely nothing against my method to look at the apparent anthropomorphisms of the Bible in a metaphorical manner. The Land of Israel got the etimology of a promised land to Israel from the prophetic words of the Prophets of Israel. The same applies to our being God's chosen People. Rather, we have chosen God. Since we have taken that choice quite seriously, we have become known as God's chosen People.

To interpret literally that God has chosen us and promised the Land of Israel to us would be to eliminate any difference between our God and the gods of Greek Mythology. Read the Iliad of Homer, and you will see what I am talking about.
Ben

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#769 Jun 12, 2012
greymouser wrote:
<quoted text>
"The passage you put to me is clear enough that the children who get condemned by the sins of their fathers, are the sins that they continue with..."
So the children are assumed that they will also sin just like their father?
I like how you try to twist this as I'm unsettled in my mind when I point out an obvious contradiction as it's my fault now and I just don't get it.
So you've now said that children are not punished by the sins of their father. But they are going to do the same sins anyway so they should be punished.
---------

The children are not assumed anything. They are under the condition
that if they keep with the sins of the fathers, they will be punished accordingly. If they don't, then there will be no punishment. As if you need an evidence, think of Abraham. He was urged to leave Ur, his homeland and his family because of idolatry. His parents were idolaters. Did he have to be punished for the sins of his fathers down to the third and fourth generations? Obviously not. He even gave rise to the Jewish concept of absolute Monotheism. That's why he won the promise that in his descendants,(the Jews) all the nations would find blessing. Why? Because Abraham obeyed God's command.(Gen. 22:18)That's where Jesus got his statement that salvation comes from the Jews.(John 4:22)
Ben

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Atheism Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Atheism requires as much faith as religion? (Jul '09) 20 min Dally Mama 228,631
Our world came from nothing? 23 min Thinking 739
Science Disproves Evolution (Aug '12) 44 min Thinking 1,041
Atheists, where do these demons come from? 53 min Thinking 2
Heaven 3 hr Thinking 11
Why Do Atheists Ridicule Christianity? (May '11) 4 hr Patrick 5,940
Atheism to Defeat Religion by 2038 (Apr '12) 5 hr I can read 22,938

Atheism People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE