Atheism Destroyed At Last! - The Deba...

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#123 Feb 25, 2014
jide oni wrote:
The Law of Karma is a natural law that prevents one from reaping what one has not sown.
This Law of Karma is otherwise known as the Law:
of Sowing and Reaping,
of Karmic Justice,
of Natural Justice,
of Cause and Effect,
of Reciprocal Action,
of Give and Take,
of Action and Reaction,
of Rebound,
of Laying of Bed and Lying on it,
of Consequences etc.
Folks,
Having presented the above characters of karmic recompense, what is your take?
Do you conceive of any real-life experience that conflicts with the nature of the law as presented above?
Please, let's take the above as a respectable starting point for an honest discussion.
I earnestly crave the direct participation of a disinterested moderator through the discussion hence - in the effect, I am suggesting a person of Reason Personified's mindset.
Again, you've stated the "law," which is actually already well known to most of us, overcomplicated it to a ridiculous extent with silly capitalization tricks, but you've failed to supply any reason for anyone besides yourself to believe it actually exists. To make a statement and then assert that it must be true unless it is proven wrong is one of the most fundamental logical fallacies, and you will be called in it every time.

My take on Karma: I've never seen it operating in the real world. The only correlations between what you do and what happens to you are logical consequences that can be foreseen and explained without resorting to such superstitious nonsense. Outside of that I see only the randomness that is the real nature of things. Undeserved fortune and misfortune fall just as frequently as just deserts.

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#124 Feb 25, 2014
jide oni wrote:
The Law of Karma is a natural law that prevents one from reaping what one has not sown.
This Law of Karma is otherwise known as the Law:
of Sowing and Reaping,
of Karmic Justice,
of Natural Justice,
of Cause and Effect,
of Reciprocal Action,
of Give and Take,
of Action and Reaction,
of Rebound,
of Laying of Bed and Lying on it,
of Consequences etc.
Folks,
Having presented the above characters of karmic recompense, what is your take?
Do you conceive of any real-life experience that conflicts with the nature of the law as presented above?
Please, let's take the above as a respectable starting point for an honest discussion.
I earnestly crave the direct participation of a disinterested moderator through the discussion hence - in the effect, I am suggesting a person of Reason Personified's mindset.
I do believe that this will not be the reply that you would have expected.
There is no law of karma, many reap what they have not sown. And many more live out horrendous lives that are not caused by their own doing. Take for instance, any child dying of or even living with a preventable disease. Have they earned that disease? There are many instances, of both unearned fortunes and misfortunes ... criminals never brought to justice, living the a sweet long life because of their ill gotten gain.
The poor are most likely to reap bitter reward no matter what they have sown, the rich not so much.

Since: Jan 14

Ashburn, VA

#125 Feb 25, 2014
Nightserf,
You are now talking - randomness in human existence, undeserved fortune and misfortune, absence of immanent justice and just recompense in a world where order and symmetrical balance are a far cry, couldn't have been divinely governed.
Yes, I presume the above serve as a plausible foundation for a reasonable skepticism about the existence of an infinitely wise Being.
Now I have a fine platform from where to address the problem of evil and a good God.
As a matter of fact, existence implies perpetual activities, i.e. negative energy upon which the energy of a positive polarity must exert itself to bring about a manifestation at a higher level, where the synthesized energy will be acted upon in turn by the predominantly positive vibrations of the higher level, and so forth.
The so-called misfortunes are merely a phase in human ascent to a higher level.
Rigorous swotting and sleepless nights on the part of an examination candidate, should not be seen as a spell of misfortune cast on such a swot.

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#126 Feb 25, 2014
jide oni wrote:
Just Think,
What an irony of a name!
Just Think that can't think.
Well, since everyone is now showing you what a dim bulb you are with your ridiculous claim that "karma" is a natural law, I guess its not my way of thinking that's the problem.

Sorry, kitten, you lose.

Since: Jan 14

Ashburn, VA

#127 Feb 25, 2014
Reason Personified,
I very much expect that kind of reply from you and every other reasonable person in the forum. It is only an unreasonable person that will not react thus, at least from experience. By the same token, it is an unreasonable believer that will boo you and rush to his scriptures; Whereas, understandingly, I am leading you all to that plane of cosmic awareness where the hidden workings of God or Nature will be bared open to all.
Everything balances up with every other thing, thereby ensuring that all the present states of things are the corresponding cumulative aggregates of all the past actions.
Whoever is now apparently suffering for no just cause,
is duly clearing some past karmic debts, or building up some future karmic credits.
The Law of Balance throws its weight behind karmic loads to rid our mind of unnecessary feeling of pity and self-pity, as nothing can happen to anyone except one deserves it.
The Law of Karma is not type, kind or species specific, or space and time bound.

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#128 Feb 25, 2014
jide oni wrote:
Reason Personified,
The Law of Karma is not type, kind or species specific, or space and time bound.
...or real.

Since: Jan 14

Ashburn, VA

#129 Feb 25, 2014
And they would say,'Oh! That chap was simply implicated in what he knew nothing about! Can there be God?
All such expressions of confusions are a common occurrence.
A and B fought at B's residence, and A threatened to deal with B.
The following day, A's mind became softened, made straight for his friend's, B's, residence to talk things over and continue their friendship as before.
While A hastened towards B's residence, an unknown assailant was at the same time attacking B in his room.
As A entered his friend's room, he was shocked to find his friend stone dead with dagger stuck into his chest.
As A tried to remove the dagger, B's neighbors, who suspected A must have come to fight B, rushed in to find A with a blood-soaked dagger in his hand.
The rest of the story could easily be completed by you.
A will now suffer for what he had earlier done with impunity elsewhere, thinking he had gone scot-free.
The unknown murderer too, will later suffer for what another might have done, also with impunity.

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#130 Feb 25, 2014
jide oni wrote:
Nightserf,
You are now talking - randomness in human existence, undeserved fortune and misfortune, absence of immanent justice and just recompense in a world where order and symmetrical balance are a far cry, couldn't have been divinely governed.
Yes, I presume the above serve as a plausible foundation for a reasonable skepticism about the existence of an infinitely wise Being.
Now I have a fine platform from where to address the problem of evil and a good God.
As a matter of fact, existence implies perpetual activities, i.e. negative energy upon which the energy of a positive polarity must exert itself to bring about a manifestation at a higher level, where the synthesized energy will be acted upon in turn by the predominantly positive vibrations of the higher level, and so forth.
The so-called misfortunes are merely a phase in human ascent to a higher level.
Rigorous swotting and sleepless nights on the part of an examination candidate, should not be seen as a spell of misfortune cast on such a swot.
Again, you fail to present a well-ordered logical argument. Good or evil God? Why should I concern myself with that argument at all? When you begin with "as a matter of fact," what follow should be fact, not opinion. That is not the case here. Presenting your unsupported opinion as fact is also one of the most basic logical fallacies, and, again, you will be called on it every time.

Existence implies perpetual activities? Get real. That doesn't even mean anything to me. Negative energy upon which the energy of a positive polarity must exert itself to bring about a manifestation at a higher level? Gobbledygook! Synthesized energy will be acted upon in turn by the predominantly positive vibrations of the higher level, and so forth? New age claptrap. Rigorous swotting and sleepless nights on the part of an examination candidate? A spell of misfortune cast on such a swot? Utterly devoid of meaning.

Your challenge remains the same: demonstrate that a world/universe without the God hypothesis is substantially different from a world/universe with one. Until you show that, no skeptic has any reason to believe in any deity of any kind. Arguments that do not address that central point are nothing more than a pointless display of razzle-dazzle. That might have worked for Richard Gere's character in Chicago. Not here.

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#131 Feb 25, 2014
jide oni wrote:
Reason Personified,
I very much expect that kind of reply from you and every other reasonable person in the forum. It is only an unreasonable person that will not react thus, at least from experience. By the same token, it is an unreasonable believer that will boo you and rush to his scriptures; Whereas, understandingly, I am leading you all to that plane of cosmic awareness where the hidden workings of God or Nature will be bared open to all.
Everything balances up with every other thing, thereby ensuring that all the present states of things are the corresponding cumulative aggregates of all the past actions.
Whoever is now apparently suffering for no just cause,
is duly clearing some past karmic debts, or building up some future karmic credits.
The Law of Balance throws its weight behind karmic loads to rid our mind of unnecessary feeling of pity and self-pity, as nothing can happen to anyone except one deserves it.
The Law of Karma is not type, kind or species specific, or space and time bound.
same kind of nasty perspective as christianity. You were raised in an abrahamic faith. That is why your philosophies retain that perspective.

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#132 Feb 25, 2014
oops comment attached to wrong "original post"

Since: Jan 14

Ashburn, VA

#133 Feb 25, 2014
Whether one denies or accepts that God exists, the earth will continue to rotate on its axis and revolve round the sun.
But the person who denies the existence of a good God will continue to live a life of emptiness, disappointment, insecurity, uncertainty, hopelessness, dissatisfaction and sadness - that life is without purpose, that the best possible is not happening, that what will happen next depends on chance, that at death, nowhere to go or is there any possibility of being given another chance, that evil is rife in the world, all leading to the absence of peace of mind.
Whereas, the world will not remain the same with the individual whn gains the understanding of God and his laws. This awareness will enable him to live happily in the wisdom and power of the intelligence back of the laws, that whatever is good for him, the infinite power will bring it to pass. that no chance occurrence, but that everything works for his good, and this realization will enable him to attain perfect peace of mind.

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#134 Feb 26, 2014
So now you resort to the old carrot/stick schtick? I though you were going to substantiate your claim that atheism was destroyed at last with the--hold on for the drums and trumpets--Debate of the Millennium!!!

Your challenge remains the same: demonstrate that a world/universe without the God hypothesis is substantially different from a world/universe with one. Until you show that, no skeptic has any reason to believe in any deity of any kind. Arguments that do not address that central point are nothing more than a pointless display of razzle-dazzle. But now, even your razzle-dazzle is fading into nothingness.

Sad.

Since: Jan 14

Ashburn, VA

#135 Feb 26, 2014
The world is as we make it. If you want to move the world, first move yourself.
The world will become a better place to live in if we realize that no God forgives anybody, but that if we forgive others we are automatically forgiving ourselves to lighten our karmic loads,
On the understanding that if we are wronged by others, it is either we are reaping some negative seeds already sown or sowing positive seeds to reap later, we would ungrudgingly forgive the other persons and the world would be literally transformed into paradise.
Your state of the mind naturally reverberates on your actions, which in turn attract reactions from others; and it is the ensuing interactions that constitute the quality of the life we are living and what determine our world.

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#136 Feb 26, 2014
jide oni wrote:
The world is as we make it. If you want to move the world, first move yourself.
The world will become a better place to live in if we realize that no God forgives anybody, but that if we forgive others we are automatically forgiving ourselves to lighten our karmic loads,
On the understanding that if we are wronged by others, it is either we are reaping some negative seeds already sown or sowing positive seeds to reap later, we would ungrudgingly forgive the other persons and the world would be literally transformed into paradise.
Your state of the mind naturally reverberates on your actions, which in turn attract reactions from others; and it is the ensuing interactions that constitute the quality of the life we are living and what determine our world.
If that comforts you, well and good.

For myself, I accepted long ago that changing the world as a whole is utterly beyond my ability, so I simply do the best I can within my own tiny sphere of influence. All I can do is to be as kind and helpful to others as my nature allows, to fix little things as I come across them, and create beauty where I can.

I don't worry about how others treat me. Most are friendly and helpful. Those who are not may simply be having a bad moment, hour, day, or week or they may simply carry the burden of a hostile attitude. Either way, it's not my problem, but I still try to lighten their burdens when I can or at least not add to them.

In many ways, I lead a charmed life. Steady income from a tolerable job, a nice collection of musical instruments, time to play them, a small cadre of musical friends, and two small-time bands to rehearse and perform with. An aging but rather nice car, a comfortable apartment that is surrounded by woodlands with well-tend paths and a bike to ride them with. A community swimming pool. A nice climate, not too cold in the winter, tolerably hot in the summer. All this and three lovely daughters who make me proud and fill my heart with love.

There are a few little problems, mostly the little aches and pains that come with growing older. No big deal. More debt that common sense would have me carry. No real prospect for a timely retirement. All natural consequences of choices I've made along the way. No Karma involved.

And there's knowledge that I probably have not much more than another 20 years to enjoy this lovely planet. It's a little sad--I'd happily continue on for another century or two if I could. But I am, after all, just a little animal with a very big brain. Just a little animal like a chipmunk or an owl. Just a little animal. That's all I am. I am content with that.

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#137 Feb 26, 2014
jide oni wrote:
Whether one denies or accepts that God exists, the earth will continue to rotate on its axis and revolve round the sun.
But the person who denies the existence of a good God will continue to live a life of emptiness, disappointment, insecurity, uncertainty, hopelessness, dissatisfaction and sadness - that life is without purpose, that the best possible is not happening, that what will happen next depends on chance, that at death, nowhere to go or is there any possibility of being given another chance, that evil is rife in the world, all leading to the absence of peace of mind.
Whereas, the world will not remain the same with the individual whn gains the understanding of God and his laws. This awareness will enable him to live happily in the wisdom and power of the intelligence back of the laws, that whatever is good for him, the infinite power will bring it to pass. that no chance occurrence, but that everything works for his good, and this realization will enable him to attain perfect peace of mind.
Well that's odd - I had no idea I was living a life of emptiness, disappointment, insecurity, uncertainty, hopelessness, dissatisfaction and sadness.

Whew...thanks for letting me know!

I'm going to go work on my "life is bleak" face now...catch ya later....

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#138 Feb 26, 2014
jide oni wrote:
Whether one denies or accepts that God exists, the earth will continue to rotate on its axis and revolve round the sun.
But the person who denies the existence of a good God will continue to live a life of emptiness, disappointment, insecurity, uncertainty, hopelessness, dissatisfaction and sadness - that life is without purpose, that the best possible is not happening, that what will happen next depends on chance, that at death, nowhere to go or is there any possibility of being given another chance, that evil is rife in the world, all leading to the absence of peace of mind.
Whereas, the world will not remain the same with the individual whn gains the understanding of God and his laws. This awareness will enable him to live happily in the wisdom and power of the intelligence back of the laws, that whatever is good for him, the infinite power will bring it to pass. that no chance occurrence, but that everything works for his good, and this realization will enable him to attain perfect peace of mind.
paranoia has always been the best sales tool of religion

You clearly were raised in an abrahamic faith.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#139 Feb 26, 2014
jide oni wrote:
continue to live a life of emptiness, disappointment, insecurity, uncertainty, hopelessness, dissatisfaction and sadness - that life is without purpose, that the best possible is not happening, that what will happen next depends on chance, that at death, nowhere to go or is there any possibility of being given another chance, that evil is rife in the world, all leading to the absence of peace of mind.
Standard christard lies about atheism

Since: Jan 14

Ashburn, VA

#140 Feb 26, 2014
I earlier said that when reason meets with reason, resolution is certain, but not so, where faith is involved.
Many of us were raised in an Abrahamic faith, but wading through life vicissitudes, we have chosen to rebrand ourselves.
As we progress in this debate, my anti-faith stance will come in the open.
It is one thing to live a life outwardly free of strife and stress, it is yet another thing altogether to be inwardly serene and unperturbed.
Through keen understanding of the workings of the laws, one is able to have explanations to all the apparent irregularities that tend to stifle man's happy expectancy in life.
Having been well grounded in the Law of Economy of Life (Death), the apparently uncalled-for death of a day-old baby, of the lone child of a post-menopause mother, of about-to-wed or newly wed, or the death of a long-suffering week-old achiever, all such apparently purposeless vagaries of nature, perfectly fit in with the overall symmetry and order that rule the universe.

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#141 Feb 26, 2014
jide oni wrote:
I earlier said that when reason meets with reason, resolution is certain, but not so, where faith is involved.
Many of us were raised in an Abrahamic faith, but wading through life vicissitudes, we have chosen to rebrand ourselves.
As we progress in this debate, my anti-faith stance will come in the open.
It is one thing to live a life outwardly free of strife and stress, it is yet another thing altogether to be inwardly serene and unperturbed.
Through keen understanding of the workings of the laws, one is able to have explanations to all the apparent irregularities that tend to stifle man's happy expectancy in life.
Having been well grounded in the Law of Economy of Life (Death), the apparently uncalled-for death of a day-old baby, of the lone child of a post-menopause mother, of about-to-wed or newly wed, or the death of a long-suffering week-old achiever, all such apparently purposeless vagaries of nature, perfectly fit in with the overall symmetry and order that rule the universe.
And yet many of your posts are essentially statements of faith. How do you explain that?

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#142 Feb 26, 2014
jide oni wrote:
I earlier said that when reason meets with reason, resolution is certain, but not so, where faith is involved.
Many of us were raised in an Abrahamic faith, but wading through life vicissitudes, we have chosen to rebrand ourselves.
As we progress in this debate, my anti-faith stance will come in the open.
It is one thing to live a life outwardly free of strife and stress, it is yet another thing altogether to be inwardly serene and unperturbed.
Through keen understanding of the workings of the laws, one is able to have explanations to all the apparent irregularities that tend to stifle man's happy expectancy in life.
Having been well grounded in the Law of Economy of Life (Death), the apparently uncalled-for death of a day-old baby, of the lone child of a post-menopause mother, of about-to-wed or newly wed, or the death of a long-suffering week-old achiever, all such apparently purposeless vagaries of nature, perfectly fit in with the overall symmetry and order that rule the universe.
Shhhhh....hush now.

You lost all credibility with this one:

"But the person who denies the existence of a good God will continue to live a life of emptiness, disappointment, insecurity, uncertainty, hopelessness, dissatisfaction and sadness - that life is without purpose

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