Atheism Destroyed At Last! - The Deba...

Since: Jun 12

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#82 Feb 23, 2014
jide oni wrote:
<quoted text>
That has been done, now waiting for you counter-proof.
No you have not!

Since: Jun 12

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#83 Feb 23, 2014
jide oni wrote:
<quoted text>
You are a distraction.
Please give way to the Nightserfs, that serious matters can be meaningfully discussed.
You are a troll.

Since: Jun 12

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#84 Feb 23, 2014
jide oni wrote:
<quoted text>
Disillusioned?
Yes you are!

Since: Jul 09

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#85 Feb 23, 2014
jide oni wrote:
<quoted text>
Quite a conviction-laden evidence has been given. It's now for you invalidate it.
direct me to such an event

Since: Jan 14

Ashburn, VA

#86 Feb 23, 2014
Ok, Let's start something:
Whatever definition you might consider the most accurate of your 'no god' concept, inasmuch as I claim an actual existence for God, I must approach the playground, a single ball in hand at a time. And once justice is done to the first with some degree of satisfaction, then a second ball can be rolled into the field of play.
My first postulate:
Man makes imperfect laws - violable, changeable, and have exceptions.
We know these imperfect laws are the necessary products of the imperfect intelligence of man.
There are some perfect laws - inviolable, permanent, and have no exceptions. These laws reign supreme over and above our actions;
Whereas, not so with the laws emanating from man's intellect.
Where man's imperfect laws are the necessary products of man's imperfect intelligence, therefore the perfect laws, that permeate the entire human existence, are evidently the necessary products of a perfect intelligence.
That perfect intelligence must therefore excite our awe anyway.

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#87 Feb 23, 2014
jide oni wrote:
Ok, Let's start something:
Whatever definition you might consider the most accurate of your 'no god' concept, inasmuch as I claim an actual existence for God, I must approach the playground, a single ball in hand at a time. And once justice is done to the first with some degree of satisfaction, then a second ball can be rolled into the field of play.
My first postulate:
Man makes imperfect laws - violable, changeable, and have exceptions.
We know these imperfect laws are the necessary products of the imperfect intelligence of man.
There are some perfect laws - inviolable, permanent, and have no exceptions. These laws reign supreme over and above our actions;
Whereas, not so with the laws emanating from man's intellect.
Where man's imperfect laws are the necessary products of man's imperfect intelligence, therefore the perfect laws, that permeate the entire human existence, are evidently the necessary products of a perfect intelligence.
That perfect intelligence must therefore excite our awe anyway.
for those who need the crutch of dominance, such awe comes easily.

Which laws are "perfect"?

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#88 Feb 23, 2014
jide oni wrote:
Nightserf,
That language changes with time is such a trite statement, at least in a world where virtually everything unceasingly goes through change.
For us to be able to get down to business in earnest, please tell me, in as few words as possible, what exactly is Atheism.
And I can assure you. I couldn't have missed my aim, no matter how divergent the current meaning of Atheism might prove to be from the norm.
Atheism is the rejection of all theistic claims.

It can be a transient rejection, i.e., subject to change in the face of new and compelling evidence, or an intransigent rejection that brooks no counter-argument.

For most--not all--it is not belief but a lack of belief. Most commonly, it is a product of skepticism, i.e., the refusal to adopt ideas, new or old, if they don't make sense in the light of real-world experience.

The problem that I see with the concept of God as you express it is that reality would be exactly the same with or without your god. It is, as LaPlace said, a hypothesis that is not needed to make sense of the universe. Is far a I can see, you believe in it, not because you must, but because you want to. For some reason, it is important to you that others wnat to as well.

I don't.

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#89 Feb 23, 2014
jide oni wrote:
Nightserf, Tell me which of the man-made laws is comparable with the natural laws, in terms of consistency, universal lattitude/application and degree of inviolability.
And having done that, tell me the human source of the human laws.
Then, tell us which ones naturally gain ascendancy over the others - human beings or the natural laws?
First, you must list the natural laws that are not part of the hard sciences, i/e, physics, chemistry, biology, tectonics, etc. You muse state them clearly and simply, not simply name them. I have only the vaguest idea what you mean by "natural laws."

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#90 Feb 23, 2014
jide oni wrote:
Ok, Let's start something:
Whatever definition you might consider the most accurate of your 'no god' concept, inasmuch as I claim an actual existence for God, I must approach the playground, a single ball in hand at a time. And once justice is done to the first with some degree of satisfaction, then a second ball can be rolled into the field of play.
My first postulate:
Man makes imperfect laws - violable, changeable, and have exceptions.
We know these imperfect laws are the necessary products of the imperfect intelligence of man.
There are some perfect laws - inviolable, permanent, and have no exceptions. These laws reign supreme over and above our actions;
Whereas, not so with the laws emanating from man's intellect.
Where man's imperfect laws are the necessary products of man's imperfect intelligence, therefore the perfect laws, that permeate the entire human existence, are evidently the necessary products of a perfect intelligence.
That perfect intelligence must therefore excite our awe anyway.
I do not accept that those perfect laws exist. List and describe them.

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#91 Feb 23, 2014
jide oni wrote:
<quoted text>
What then is Atheism?
Merely the absence of theism.

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#92 Feb 23, 2014
jide oni wrote:
Reason Personified,
Similarly, we were all born foolish; but many remain so.
Our having been born Atheists indicates a blank slate made ready to be filled with reasonable Theistic values as we progress along the path.
Why quoting the useless Bible for me? Don't you know the Bible is as stone dead as Atheism?- the dead quoting the dead.
As stone dead as the gods ... hence we non-believers continually expand in number. There seems to be no reason for any stance but ours. There be no gods.

BTW: Atheism is the lack of an ism.

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#93 Feb 23, 2014
jide oni wrote:
Nightserf,
That language changes with time is such a trite statement, at least in a world where virtually everything unceasingly goes through change.
For us to be able to get down to business in earnest, please tell me, in as few words as possible, what exactly is Atheism.
And I can assure you. I couldn't have missed my aim, no matter how divergent the current meaning of Atheism might prove to be from the norm.
In as few words as possible >>> The absence of theism.
And an atheist is simply >>> Not a theist.

The word's meanings hinge on that little rounded letter at it's beginning with the little upswept curl on top.

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#95 Feb 24, 2014
>>>> and that would be the letter "a". It means not.

Since: Jan 14

Ashburn, VA

#96 Feb 24, 2014
Nightserf,
Just in passing, should I suggest dissociating from such an insurgent sub-sect of Atheists within your fold;
A sub-group that don't brook any counter-proof as the present thread, may accurately answer the description of the unreasoning dogmatic fanatics - true hooligans in suits.
(Sorry for the digression. Linking up with you presently.)

Since: Jan 14

Ashburn, VA

#97 Feb 24, 2014
Nightserf,

Sorry,'intransigent' not 'insurgent'.

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#98 Feb 24, 2014
jide oni wrote:
Nightserf,
Sorry,'intransigent' not 'insurgent'.
I have to admit to a few chortles at the thought of atheist insurgents...

Since: Jan 14

Ashburn, VA

#99 Feb 24, 2014
Nightserf,
Your position is quite sensible, and if truly an Atheistic position, then Atheism must be accorded respect.
However, where there are noticeable benefits derivable from positive acknowledgement of the perfect laws --> perfect Intelligence, then we should avail ourselves of such serendipitous natural largesse.
Let me say, with all sense of seriousness, that the ultimate goal of an earthly human is the attainment of peace of mind. Wealth, political power etc. will most certainly not procure peace of mind for a mindset that is ignorant of the life-ward, beneficial laws of nature.
Happiness/peace of mind is a state of the mind, irrespective of one's station in life. And the mind that is densely saturated with the eternal truths embedded in the natural laws, will traverse the storms of life in smiles of encouragement to others.
Faced with an imminent catastrophe, raking up the exact counter-active law to address the present ordeal, will naturally transmute the harsh reality to a blissful experience.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#100 Feb 24, 2014
The are no sects in atheism
Atheism isn't an ism
There is no dogma in atheism

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#101 Feb 24, 2014
jide oni wrote:
karl44,
i am so excited, skimming through your reaction and that of others too, that we are of same cast philosophically but with some subtle coarse edges that need to be smoothed out as we progress in the discussion.
the natural laws, or the immutable laws of nature, are the silent, guiding, ordering and reordering force in nature, which exhibit such an unfailing mind power that give an average discerning person a feeling of security and sense of transcendental justice, when the man-made justice appear to falter.
the natural laws manifest the same perfect attributes as those said to be exclusive property of any being arrayed with the halo of divinity - omnipotent, omnipresent. omniscient, benevolent, just and unchanging.
not there is a hollow array of nonsense.

Since: Jan 14

Ashburn, VA

#102 Feb 24, 2014
UnderstandingThe Natural Laws:
In the 'beginning' were the laws; and the laws were with God, and the laws were God.
The natural laws are the only laws of God.
Everything is encased within the sphere of the natural laws.
Unlike the man-made laws, the natural laws are not dependent on human existence; rather, man and all other things are sustained by them.
All the laws manifest unity in diversity.
There is no theory, no philosophy or religious creed that can hold true for proving the existence of God as the natural laws.
They are the working tools of God, at least, if they are not God themselves.
And it is only and only through the laws that God can be existentially proven.
Whereas, the exegetic scriptural system of design-designer argument for proving the existence of God stands faulted - as a designer too can as well be a design in turn at a higher level.
And so, the problematic logical fallacy of the uncaused first cause remains an unresolved issue till tomorrow.
(Pls hold on for the continuation)

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