Atheism to Defeat Religion by 2038

Atheism to Defeat Religion by 2038

There are 24181 comments on the Psychology Today story from Apr 25, 2012, titled Atheism to Defeat Religion by 2038. In it, Psychology Today reports that:

My blog posts on religion have attracted a lot of controversy. Religious people are annoyed by my claim that belief in God will go the way of horse transportation, and for much the same reason, specifically an improved standard of living.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Psychology Today.

spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#18939 Nov 4, 2013
Hi Muq

See you are still trying to convert the infidel.

I still think your time would be better spent on addressing your own issues.

Like asking yourself some questions. Like why the Saudi "royal" family support the Syrian "rebels", which makes them on the same side as Israel?

If you were born into another religion, would you likely follow that religion? That opens up a whole can of worms

Why Muslim countries are largely ruled by zionist friendly sock puppets?

Allah has rested on the seventh day. He has had his siesta, isnt it time he did something about putting an end to all the suffering in the whole world?

cheers

Since: Mar 12

Mumbai, India

#18940 Nov 4, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
01. Your post is based on many wrong assumptions and misconceptions. I told you in the beginning that Quran did not came to teach us science and Engineering.
It is a book for guidance for humanity as to how to pass their test of their lives. One of the topic is Attributes of Creator and His power and knowledge. In order to tell people about His uniqueness and Power and Mercy, Quran draws attention to so many things scattered around humans for his benefit and his survival on this planet.
02. The verses are for people of all ages and times, you just talk about your present times, may be in a couple of centuries, most of concept what we have would become outdated. But Quran would be "current" even in those times!!
03. There is nothing "erroneous" in Quranic description of things in nature. May be the earlier commentators translated them with "their own knowledge of the time". But the original Arabic words used have different shades of meanings.
It was not only because of Maurice Buccaile that scientific nature of these Quranic verses came into light.
04. Arabs rose to great heights when they were following Quran into their lives and when they started playing lip service to islam and Quran, that was their down fall.
PS:
As an example, I would like you to read "The version of Creation as recorded in the opening verses of Book of Genesis.
Here the whole process is described in much detail and what was created on which day. In past centuries, it would look "very scientific" but now, no one dare defend it.
But when Quran defines the process of Creation, the words "Six days" are used, but the detail is missing!!
What prevented our prophet to "omit" the detail? Was it chance?
There are many examples when we compare Quranic version versus other scriptures.
Quran keeps pace with science while other scriptures are lagging behind.
Why? Because Quran is preserved in its pristine condition in the language it was revealed, while other scriptures have been either translated or got corrupted or words of humans got mixed with Divine words.
Response to your post:
1)I have never said that Quran is meant for teaching Science and Engineering.But since Muslims claim that Quran has revealed many "then unknown" scientific facts in a concise manner,I thought to show my disagreement with this belief.
2)Not most,but some might become irrelevant in future as time elapses.Nevertheless,Science is impeccable and it unequivocally clubs "possibilities" and "truth" into two separate groups and the latter one will remain unchanged forever. Quran seems to be dissonant with the latter group in some cases and hence its authenticity should be questioned.
3)Now,this is what was I trying to point out.How could you be so certain that early compilers of Quran misinterpreted it when they supposedly had the first hand knowledge and had been the companions of your prophet?I will just show you an example to emphasize my claim. Quran says that human beings were made of clay.This notion was widespread in those times as the precedent religion of Islam,Christianity,preached the same.Why there mustn't be a possibility that Quran was indeed buttressing this erroneous idea as it was quite common among people in those times?
There is not a single verse in Quran that supports the idea that human beings are made of different chemical elements,yet Muslims of today propagate this idea that the verse in Quran talking about human body composition made if different elements as earth itself contains so many elements.If Quran ain't a science book,why do Muslims use Bucailleism to proselytize people?This is an obvious question pertaining to the fact that Muslims easily resort to the shield of excuse that Quran is not a scientic book when they are asked to explain the details!
Contd..

Since: Mar 12

Mumbai, India

#18941 Nov 4, 2013
04)Arabs civilization might have flourished after the arrival of Islam but nonetheless this doesn't saves Quran from a skeptical evaluation.As there were many other civilizations without Islam which were better than ancient Arab civilization,this shouldn't count as a counter argument.
Reply to your PS:
I guess there are some verses in Quran that describe the minutiae of creationism because I do remember(though vaguely) I read it in Quran by myself.I am not sure,though.A Google search will help.:)
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#18944 Nov 4, 2013
spider wrote:
<quoted text>
What are you talking about, Show me any post were I have lied.
Skeptic will correct me if I'm wrong, but I took him to mean that religionists claiming the existence of a god are 'liars'.

Many people have tried to explain to Skeptic the difference between people deliberately lying and them being wrong or mistaken. Skeptic doesn't accept the distinction or thinks it beside the point and, arguably and to be fair, one can lie and not know one is lying. However, being mistaken is different to telling lies. To lie usually (but not invariably) implies a conscious intent to deceive. Religionists only deceive themselves.

There are various kinds of lies...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie
Note the 'view from nowhere' is listed as a lie, but such journalists often misinform through ignorance, poor understanding, &/or poor comprehension. Like those who believe in and talk of Abrahamic god(s), they don't realise they are creating or spreading a lie and might not accept they have done so even when it's pointed out.

So, I think people who don't realise they are lying are more properly called mistaken. Liars tends to be what one call's them in anger rather than with an intent to influence or correct them.

Quinn's commercial advertisement,(like any other) doesn't belong here and (I hope) puts people off reading whatever he's pushing.

Obviously 'too ridiculous to even consider' implies some level of consideration but so what? I don't think that wasn't worth comment -(and yes, I commented on it :-)

I hope that helps.(but I suspect it won't :-)

“Leave That Thing Alone!”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#18945 Nov 4, 2013
DavidQuinn wrote:
Sadly i think it'll be 2138 before any progress to this end. I wish i had Jean-Paul sartre's attitude to religion, a man so thoroughly atheist he deemed the whole subject beneath his intelligence to consider. Simply religion is divisive and restricts us as a species, simple as that. Check out a book that's causing a bit of a buzz in the Uk called 2082 the chronicles of hope. On the website the 1st chapter for the 1st book is on there for free, there's a speech in there by an atheist politician that's genius
Do you get paid to continually spam this same advertisement on a daily basis?

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#18946 Nov 4, 2013
spider wrote:
<quoted text>
Rubbish,,, in order to reject something, we at first have to consider it, even if only briefly.
Really? So you have briefly considered **all** the gods that ever were, in every human culture however obscure?

No?

Then you are atheist with respect to those gods: even though you never considered them or even knew they existed at all.

So your statement above is not entirely true.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#18947 Nov 4, 2013
TerryL wrote:
<quoted text>Do you get paid to continually spam this same advertisement on a daily basis?
Indeed-- I do think you are correct.

Or else he's the author of that book...
MUQ

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#18948 Nov 4, 2013
SG wrote:
Hi Muq

See you are still trying to convert the infidel.

I still think your time would be better spent on addressing your own issues.

Like asking yourself some questions. Like why the Saudi "royal" family support the Syrian "rebels", which makes them on the same side as Israel?

If you were born into another religion, would you likely follow that religion? That opens up a whole can of worms

Why Muslim countries are largely ruled by Zionist friendly sock puppets?

Allah has rested on the seventh day. He has had his siesta, isn't it time he did something about putting an end to all the suffering in the whole world?

cheers
Ans.

"Converting Infidels" is not my aim. My aim is to clear misconceptions about Islam which are prevalent amongst most people. If some one follows true path, it is God' mercy.

Most leaders of Muslim countries are afraid of their own positions. They have very less local support that is why they take instructions from western nations.

Why you are complaining about Muslim countries being ruled by "Zionist puppets", what about Western countries? They are also ruled by "Zionist puppets"!!

Has any President of USA enough guts to come and criticise Isreal openly? So you first take care of your own house.

Allah did not rest on any day, that is misconception of Biblical tale.

Allah is free from all defects and shortcomings, he does not sleep and even slumber does not approach Him.!!
MUQ

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#18949 Nov 4, 2013
FS wrote:
Response to your post:

1)I have never said that Quran is meant for teaching Science and Engineering. But since Muslims claim that Quran has revealed many "then unknown" scientific facts in a concise manner, I thought to show my disagreement with this belief.

2)Not most, but some might become irrelevant in future as time elapses. Nevertheless, Science is impeccable and it unequivocally clubs "possibilities" and "truth" into two separate groups and the latter one will remain unchanged forever. Quran seems to be dissonant with the latter group in some cases and hence its authenticity should be questioned.

3)Now, this is what was I trying to point out. How could you be so certain that early compilers of Quran misinterpreted it when they supposedly had the first hand knowledge and had been the companions of your prophet? I will just show you an example to emphasize my claim. Quran says that human beings were made of clay. This notion was widespread in those times as the precedent religion of Islam, Christianity, preached the same. Why there mustn't be a possibility that Quran was indeed buttressing this erroneous idea as it was quite common among people in those times?


04)Arabs civilization might have flourished after the arrival of Islam but nonetheless this doesn't saves Quran from a skeptical evaluation. As there were many other civilizations without Islam which were better than ancient Arab civilization ,this shouldn't count as a counter argument.

Reply to your PS:

I guess there are some verses in Quran that describe the minutiae of creationism because I do remember(though vaguely) I read it in Quran by myself. I am not sure, though. A Google search will help.:)
Ans.

01. What Quran has revealed "unknown" scientific facts are in front of us. Compare the science of 1400 years back and then see how Quran stays clear of those "popular ideas".

2. Quran will always keep pace with science and will never go out of date. Because it is send by the Creator Himself, who can know about Science, past, present and future than Creator?

3. Quran is in front of us, exactly as it was revealed. Interpretation of scientific verses by each commentator is as per his own knowledge.

We can keep on talking about your "subjective" analysis, but that will not be any help.

What Christian scriptures say and what Jewish scriptures say and what Hindu and Buddhist and Jain scriptures say, they all are in front of us.

If you cannot find any difference between them, then you do not have any capacity for these things.(you showed the same lack of understanding when we were discussing the qualities of True prophet of God)

4. No one prevents you from "skeptical analysis" of Quran, enemies of Islam are doing that for 1400 years.

And Quran has a single answers for all those "skepticals",

"If you are in any doubt about what We have revealed to our Servant (i.e. Quran), then bring some thing like itÂ…"

This Quranic challenge is for all times.

PS:

Please do "google" it and come out with your "expert opinion"!

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#18951 Nov 4, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
My aim is to clear misconceptions about Islam which are prevalent amongst most people.
Proofless liar-cult at the end of the day.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#18952 Nov 4, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
01. What Quran has revealed "unknown" scientific facts are in front of us. Compare the science of 1400 years back and then see how Quran stays clear of those "popular ideas".
Science requires your cult to prove its god - but when asked, you guys get angry instead.
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#18953 Nov 5, 2013
MUQ: "Converting Infidels" is not my aim. My aim is to clear misconceptions about Islam which are prevalent amongst most people."

Hi Muq, I think most people here are quite knowledgable about both Islam and Christianity. The difference is that they have considered the case presented and rejected it because there is a lack of evidence to support to assertions being made.

MUQ: "If some one follows true path, it is God' mercy."

The Christians say the same thing. That they have the full revelation and theirs in the only way to heaven. You cannot both be right. The path you follow is largely a matter of geography and upbringing.

MUQ" Most leaders of Muslim countries are afraid of their own positions. They have very less local support that is why they take instructions from western nations."

Your "royal" family is a disgrace. They steal all the oil wealth for themselves whilst their people live in poverty. When Obama says jump, they do a world record high jump.

MUQ: "Why you are complaining about Muslim countries being ruled by "Zionist puppets", what about Western countries? They are also ruled by "Zionist puppets"!!"

I agree with you there. Cameron and Obama are sock puppets for the banks and zionist/ illuminati. It sucks, but that is the situation, and it is difficult to know what to do about it.

MUQ "Has any President of USA enough guts to come and criticise Isreal openly?"

Presidents are appointed. There is no way anyone would be let near the White House who wasnt 110% supportive of Israel.

MUQ "Allah did not rest on any day, that is misconception of Biblical tale.
Allah is free from all defects and shortcomings, he does not sleep and even slumber does not approach Him.!!"

You can see the errors of the Bible. If you open your eyes you could see the same problems with the Quran. This is how religion works, it progammes people to believe.

The way to overcome this is to re-programme yourself, to un-do the damage of self-indoctrination.

Lets face it, mankind needs to get off its knees. There is no need to pray five times a day. What sort of "God" wants that.

I can tell you what it is really about.

It is about being a human SHEEP.

Yes thats right, a sheep that goes baaaa :)) Sheeple go baaa too. Just look at the world. People follow their shepherds and blindly do as they say.

And the thing is the shepherd has no real power. Only the power that the sheep give them.

Take away the "submission" of the sheep, and the shepherd can be seen for what they are. The rabbi, priest, iman have no real power, only the power to deceive and put their flock under a spell.

That is my take on it all after four years as a Christian.

“Leave That Thing Alone!”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#18955 Nov 5, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Indeed-- I do think you are correct.
Or else he's the author of that book...
Good point... must be a crappy book if he's trying to sell it via Topix forum boards

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#18956 Nov 5, 2013
TerryL wrote:
<quoted text>Good point... must be a crappy book if he's trying to sell it via Topix forum boards
Yes... the ***first** time I saw that SPAM, I was mildly interested, and made a note to check it out.

But within an hour? I saw the exact same SPAM-- so I dumped my note-- not worth the bother, really.
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#18957 Nov 5, 2013
Building on the above post.

Sheep is a common metaphor for Christian believers.

Jesus referred to himself as the good shepherd and his followers as sheep. The intention being that Christians should be quiet and humble and follow obediently.

However sheep are also considered dumb and follow the shepherd blindly. So this can be seen as less of a compliment.

The latin for shepherd is Pastor. This is the name used in protestant christianity for the Christian leaders. The pastor or shepherd has a congretation of followers. The Christians are followers, following their Pastor and obeying his teachings.

The same goes for other religions. The priest or imam or rabbi are the shepherd. They are the shepherd leaders that shepherd the church.

The sheepdog is the fear factor that keeps people in place. This can be the threat of hell, or the fear of commiting sins, of dying in a state of unrepentance.

The prison mind set puts a person in a state of zombie like submission. The person morphs into a human sheep where he or she o longer has the capacity to think for themselves but blindly follows the dogma and rules of the faith.

The way out of this personal hell, is simply to get off your knees. An atheist or freethinkers of all kinds are capable of thinking for themselves and questioning what they are taught. When "sheep" go off in all directions, they become unmanagable. The "God" glasses come off and the people have awoken.
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#18958 Nov 5, 2013
Plus, the thought of christians/ muslims on their knees going baaa is funny too :)
spider

Cambridge, UK

#18959 Nov 5, 2013
EdSed wrote:
<quoted text>Skeptic will correct me if I'm wrong, but I took him to mean that religionists claiming the existence of a god are 'liars'.
Many people have tried to explain to Skeptic the difference between people deliberately lying and them being wrong or mistaken. Skeptic doesn't accept the distinction or thinks it beside the point and, arguably and to be fair, one can lie and not know one is lying. However, being mistaken is different to telling lies. To lie usually (but not invariably) implies a conscious intent to deceive. Religionists only deceive themselves.
There are various kinds of lies...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie
Note the 'view from nowhere' is listed as a lie, but such journalists often misinform through ignorance, poor understanding, &/or poor comprehension. Like those who believe in and talk of Abrahamic god(s), they don't realise they are creating or spreading a lie and might not accept they have done so even when it's pointed out.
So, I think people who don't realise they are lying are more properly called mistaken. Liars tends to be what one call's them in anger rather than with an intent to influence or correct them.
Quinn's commercial advertisement,(like any other) doesn't belong here and (I hope) puts people off reading whatever he's pushing.
Obviously 'too ridiculous to even consider' implies some level of consideration but so what? I don't think that wasn't worth comment -(and yes, I commented on it :-)
I hope that helps.(but I suspect it won't :-)
What I was trying to point out was this,,, in order to dismiss anything, anything at all,, we at first consider the subject matter. Normal human beings apply a thought process, they consider what is before them and react accordingly.

OBVIOUSLY ' TOO RIDICULOUS TO EVEN CONSIDER' IMPLIES SOME LEVEL OF CONSIDERATION BUT SO WHAT ? I DON'T THINK THAT WASN'T WORTH COMMENT -( AND YES I COMMENTED ON IT :-)

I see from your parting comment that you at least understood my point,,, still don't see how that makes me a liar as Skeptic called me,, Ill put it down to a typo.
spider

Cambridge, UK

#18960 Nov 5, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Really? So you have briefly considered **all** the gods that ever were, in every human culture however obscure?
No?
Then you are atheist with respect to those gods: even though you never considered them or even knew they existed at all.
So your statement above is not entirely true.
No I haven't considered all the gods that ever were, it's impossible to go back to the dawn of time and study all the idols or gods men have worshiped.
I have however looked at all the mainstream faiths, and many from the past. The view I take is that religionists believe in one inteligent ultimate power or being of some sort or other.
I opt for the scientific approach.
How did you arrive at your decision ? did you not consider?
spider

Cambridge, UK

#18961 Nov 5, 2013
spudgun wrote:
MUQ: "Converting Infidels" is not my aim. My aim is to clear misconceptions about Islam which are prevalent amongst most people."
Hi Muq, I think most people here are quite knowledgable about both Islam and Christianity. The difference is that they have considered the case presented and rejected it because there is a lack of evidence to support to assertions being made.
MUQ: "If some one follows true path, it is God' mercy."
The Christians say the same thing. That they have the full revelation and theirs in the only way to heaven. You cannot both be right. The path you follow is largely a matter of geography and upbringing.
MUQ" Most leaders of Muslim countries are afraid of their own positions. They have very less local support that is why they take instructions from western nations."
Your "royal" family is a disgrace. They steal all the oil wealth for themselves whilst their people live in poverty. When Obama says jump, they do a world record high jump.
MUQ: "Why you are complaining about Muslim countries being ruled by "Zionist puppets", what about Western countries? They are also ruled by "Zionist puppets"!!"
I agree with you there. Cameron and Obama are sock puppets for the banks and zionist/ illuminati. It sucks, but that is the situation, and it is difficult to know what to do about it.
MUQ "Has any President of USA enough guts to come and criticise Isreal openly?"
Presidents are appointed. There is no way anyone would be let near the White House who wasnt 110% supportive of Israel.
MUQ "Allah did not rest on any day, that is misconception of Biblical tale.
Allah is free from all defects and shortcomings, he does not sleep and even slumber does not approach Him.!!"
You can see the errors of the Bible. If you open your eyes you could see the same problems with the Quran. This is how religion works, it progammes people to believe.
The way to overcome this is to re-programme yourself, to un-do the damage of self-indoctrination.
Lets face it, mankind needs to get off its knees. There is no need to pray five times a day. What sort of "God" wants that.
I can tell you what it is really about.
It is about being a human SHEEP.
Yes thats right, a sheep that goes baaaa :)) Sheeple go baaa too. Just look at the world. People follow their shepherds and blindly do as they say.
And the thing is the shepherd has no real power. Only the power that the sheep give them.
Take away the "submission" of the sheep, and the shepherd can be seen for what they are. The rabbi, priest, iman have no real power, only the power to deceive and put their flock under a spell.
That is my take on it all after four years as a Christian.
Good post.

You state that you spent four years as a Christian,, may I ask

1. How or why you became a christian ?

2. What led you to change your mind ?
spider

Cambridge, UK

#18962 Nov 5, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
"Converting Infidels" is not my aim. My aim is to clear misconceptions about Islam which are prevalent amongst most people. If some one follows true path, it is God' mercy.
Most leaders of Muslim countries are afraid of their own positions. They have very less local support that is why they take instructions from western nations.
Why you are complaining about Muslim countries being ruled by "Zionist puppets", what about Western countries? They are also ruled by "Zionist puppets"!!
Has any President of USA enough guts to come and criticise Isreal openly? So you first take care of your own house.
Allah did not rest on any day, that is misconception of Biblical tale.
Allah is free from all defects and shortcomings, he does not sleep and even slumber does not approach Him.!!
If I were a god, I would consider it beneficial to appear or speak to a mass of people, including women. Not just one man.

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