Atheism to Defeat Religion by 2038

Apr 25, 2012 Full story: Psychology Today 23,043

My blog posts on religion have attracted a lot of controversy. Religious people are annoyed by my claim that belief in God will go the way of horse transportation, and for much the same reason, specifically an improved standard of living.

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Since: Dec 10

Nehwon

#18530 Sep 16, 2013
fadu singh wrote:
<quoted text>
Really?If there had been people who claimed that they were the beholders of the miracles how were they've been validated by Muslim till now?
You should have been explaining the 20 qualities of true eye-witnesses in the first place.
I'm now a bit curious.

There must be at least four witnesses that a woman is raped. After all, throughout history, this is very rarely happened...

So how many witnesses does Islam require for miracles?

Would rumor like this be enough?

'"Um, he's sick. My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious."

But Mohammed sucked the illness out of him via his genitals and everyone lived happily ever after.'

“Right click Left click Yay!”

Since: Dec 10

Nehwon

#18531 Sep 16, 2013
EdSed wrote:
Arguably, Islam didn't exist until 690CE...
From:
http://www.sheffieldhumanists.org.uk/
"... based on the research that has been accumulating over the years that Islam did not exist until about 690CE (six decades after Muhammad’s death), when a political decision appears to have been made to adopt a new religion."
Interesting and not really surprising.

Considering Constantine tried to save a dying Roman Empire by endorsing Christianity for political power.

Strange how religion and politics intertwine.

But politicians no longer need the imaginary threat of excommunication and Hell.

Their threats are now backed with nuclear weapons that have been demonstrated.

MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#18532 Sep 17, 2013
FS wrote:
The question was who are the people that witnessed Muhammad's miracles? And how did muslims cross-check their words?
Ans.

Who saw the miracles of our prophet? The "Biggest and ever living miracle" of our prophet is Quran!!

Which every one can see and read!! Quran challenges every one to bring another book, or ten chapter or one chapter like it, and no one is able to meet that challenge for past 1400 years. So it is a living miracle, right in front of us.

As regards other "minor miracles"…. The companions of prophet, who were present and saw those miracles have narrated it to people who came after them.

Records of these are presented in the numerous books written by Islamic Scholars.

With each narration, there is a list of narrators and complete record as to who they were, where they lived and when they died etc.

This complete list is open to scrutiny and people can read and question if some thing is not clear.

I doubt any other religion has taken that much pain to authenticate records of their prophet's life as Muslims have done.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#18533 Sep 17, 2013
GM wrote:
1.

"What it demands from them is to pay a small tribute ..."

Perhaps you might want to rephrase that.

Otherwise, I may come to the conclusion that your "God" wants to collect taxes like an earthly government.

In effect, you are diminishing God to just another lying, backstabbing, money grabbing, power mad politician.

2.

And here we have your true colors.

If only Israel would be destroyed, the Middle East would be peaceful! A return to Eden!

This was already done.

So why do you think that doing it again will change anything?

Let's play a game.

Israel is destroyed. Who will be your next enemy?
Sunnis?
Shias?
Buddhists?
Christians?
Kurds?
Dervish?
Zoroastrianism?
That person who replies "Hey. wait a sec. I slightly disagree with you."?

3.

Perhaps you can tell us how to recognize a true prophet of God?

Many claim to be a prophet or messiah and have been destroyed and forgotten in a generation or a decade.

So why should I believe that Mohammed is the "last prophet" and not the anti-Christ foretold in Revelations?

Please help me understand for my "everlasting soul" is at stake here.

Apparently, from wild speculation of people a thousand years ago, this is an extraordinary risk to me. I need extraordinary evidence to commit.
Ans.

1. Jizya:

That Tax is not for God, for He is free of all wants from us humans.

The money is to be spent on poor of the society. Where your Tax money goes by the way?

2. On Isreal:

I did not see that destroying Isreal will solve "all" of world's problem.

I said destroying Isreal would solve "Most" of the problems western world is having with Muslim world.

Try it and see the result.

3. On True Prophets:

One can recognize a true prophet of God, by verifying that he possess "most" of the qualities mentioned in the list.

I am not yet taking any names, but we will reach to that stage when we are thru with the list.

4. Our Prophet, Last Prophet or Anti-Christ:

He is the Last Prophet, because no True Prophet has come into the world for past 1400 years and none is expected.

He cannot be Anti- Christ, because he asked his followers to believe in Jesus Christ. He restored Jesus to his true position and removed all the falsehood which those exaggerating Christians had put around him and made him almost a magical figure.

Our prophet was the "True Benefactor" of Jesus Christ, how can he be Anti Christ?

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#18534 Sep 17, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
Who saw the miracles of our prophet? The "Biggest and ever living miracle" of our prophet is Quran!!
Which every one can see and read!! Quran challenges every one to bring another book, or ten chapter or one chapter like it, and no one is able to meet that challenge for past 1400 years. So it is a living miracle, right in front of us.
As regards other "minor miracles"…. The companions of prophet, who were present and saw those miracles have narrated it to people who came after them.
Records of these are presented in the numerous books written by Islamic Scholars.
With each narration, there is a list of narrators and complete record as to who they were, where they lived and when they died etc.
This complete list is open to scrutiny and people can read and question if some thing is not clear.
I doubt any other religion has taken that much pain to authenticate records of their prophet's life as Muslims have done.
You have no proof and are simply a mentally ill liar.

Dishonesty is the symptom of your illness and you know it.

You couldn't convert a braindead llama toward your hateful and worthless cult.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#18535 Sep 17, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
1. Jizya:
That Tax is not for God, for He is free of all wants from us humans.
The money is to be spent on poor of the society. Where your Tax money goes by the way?
2. On Isreal:
I did not see that destroying Isreal will solve "all" of world's problem.
I said destroying Isreal would solve "Most" of the problems western world is having with Muslim world.
Try it and see the result.
3. On True Prophets:
One can recognize a true prophet of God, by verifying that he possess "most" of the qualities mentioned in the list.
I am not yet taking any names, but we will reach to that stage when we are thru with the list.
4. Our Prophet, Last Prophet or Anti-Christ:
He is the Last Prophet, because no True Prophet has come into the world for past 1400 years and none is expected.
He cannot be Anti- Christ, because he asked his followers to believe in Jesus Christ. He restored Jesus to his true position and removed all the falsehood which those exaggerating Christians had put around him and made him almost a magical figure.
Our prophet was the "True Benefactor" of Jesus Christ, how can he be Anti Christ?
No such thing as god and you're too scared to admit the truth.
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#18536 Sep 17, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
No such thing as god and you're too scared to admit the truth.
All theists have this problem. Once they are sucked in, they have too much emotional investment to turn back.

People build up a knowledge pyramid over the course of their lives, and if you tell someone they are wrong about even a small thing, they are not a happy bunny. People do not like to be told they are wrong, and will often defend their beliefs to the hilt, not for rational reasons but for emotional ones.

It is a lot easier for us humans to look at other beliefs and see fault with them. Theists are quite happy to admit that 9,999 religions are wrong and 999 gods are false, whilst thinking they are lucky to be born into the one true religion with the one true God. Their self delusion/ programming explains their strange views and sometimes intolerance. The high level of emotional commitment explains why they can believe in things without evidence and defend crazy beliefs. Yes, they are scared to take off the "God" glasses as they are afraid of what the world might really look like.
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#18537 Sep 17, 2013
A story that may be of interest. Nasa's voyager 1 has left the solar system and is now exploring interstellar space.

Radio signals show it is 12 billion miles away.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/articl...

"It is 36 years since the twin Voyager 1 and 2 spacecraft were launched and the pair continue to explore where nothing from Earth has flown before.

Their primary mission was the exploration of Jupiter and Saturn.

After making a string of discoveries there -- such as active volcanoes on Jupiter's moon Io and intricacies of Saturn's rings -- the mission was extended.

Voyager 2 went on to explore Uranus and Neptune, and is still the only spacecraft to have visited those outer planets.


The current mission for both spacecraft, the Voyager Interstellar Mission, is to explore the outermost edge of the Sun's domain and beyond."

And this scientific achievements are real, unlike creationist myths.
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#18538 Sep 17, 2013
spudgun wrote:
<quoted text>
.. they are scared to take off the "God" glasses as they are afraid of what the world might really look like.
Well said, Spud. They also seem inclined to assume that the world will be worse without belief in god(s) instead of better, as if lack of all superstition is somehow a bad thing and not a benefit to humanity and society.

Muq is a particularly clear example of someone who feels compelled to see everything through an Islamic prism instead of seeing Islam as one religion amongst many. The 'give me a boy under 7' effect.
henry

Bad Langensalza, Germany

#18539 Sep 17, 2013
EdSed wrote:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ nigel-barber/atheism-to-replac e-religion-by-2041-a-clarifica tion_b_3695658.html
I don't think the connection the writer makes between wealth and the decline in religion is important beyond the fact that securiy gives people spare time and the leisure to examine exactly why they hold religious beliefs and what they are.
I think the decline of religion is a natural consequence of the growth of knowledge, increased education, the Internet (better communication of ideas)and scientific discoveries. In the 21st Century seriously believes that the a prophet was sent to Earth by a god. That alone invalidates the fundamental premise of all Abrahamic faiths and most other religions.
Religion = superstition and the truth will out. I think it's as simple as that. It takes time for the mass of 7 billion people to realise and accept this simple fact but I think we are observing this process.
The fact is peoples will not have enough time any more to figure out a long debate about religions or not in the nuclear Age. Not the Religion is the urgent Thing humanity has to solve it is to get rid fast from Atom Desaster as quickly as possible. If not we are on the verge of nihilating the human race. That is the question. to be or not to be. That is the number one question of survival.
henry

Bad Langensalza, Germany

#18540 Sep 17, 2013
EdSed wrote:
<quoted text>Again, you fail to comprehend. There are philosophers who are atheist and philosophies that are atheist, but there is no specific 'atheist philosophy' to which all atheists subscribe.
Atheists are simply people who don't believe in what people describe as god or gods...
http://www.godchecker.com/
There's no such thing as gods or pixies.
Surely, there is no god, but what we are sure the atomic thread is real. That is the real thread to the human race. That is urgent to Change the capitalist ideology world wide. I am afraid but the human race is on ist way to extinction. I believe, as a whole we are on this way. Religions are only a nuisance and no use for the preservation of our survival.

Since: Mar 12

Devil's hometown

#18541 Sep 17, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
Who saw the miracles of our prophet? The "Biggest and ever living miracle" of our prophet is Quran!!
Which every one can see and read!! Quran challenges every one to bring another book, or ten chapter or one chapter like it, and no one is able to meet that challenge for past 1400 years. So it is a living miracle, right in front of us.
As regards other "minor miracles"…. The companions of prophet, who were present and saw those miracles have narrated it to people who came after them.
Records of these are presented in the numerous books written by Islamic Scholars.
With each narration, there is a list of narrators and complete record as to who they were, where they lived and when they died etc.
This complete list is open to scrutiny and people can read and question if some thing is not clear.
I doubt any other religion has taken that much pain to authenticate records of their prophet's life as Muslims have done.
Okay,Even I have heard that Quran and subsequent Muslim books were written after 200 years following Muhammad's death.
What happened in that period of 200 years?Why Quran didn't take physical form in those years?How could the writers of Quran verify the informations they'd gathered from?
The last question is a crucial one.The answer to that question would decide if Quran was really a "miracle" or just another unwarranted theory.
PS:You can answer these questions one by one and need not mingle up.
henry

Bad Langensalza, Germany

#18542 Sep 17, 2013
LCNLin wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheist for President of the USA not in the cards at the moment.
Maybe Prime Minister of the UK?
"Atheist for president of the USA or any other silly questions like this in the nuclear Inferno Japan is bringing the real important question to the forfront for humanity. Religions are therefore only of second class for humanity. The US wars are suicadal for the whole race of course including the United States. I don`t think humanity is getting rid of capitalism. Though we are on our way of Extermination. Any else is of minor importance.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#18543 Sep 17, 2013
spudgun wrote:
A story that may be of interest. Nasa's voyager 1 has left the solar system and is now exploring interstellar space.
Radio signals show it is 12 billion miles away.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/articl...
"It is 36 years since the twin Voyager 1 and 2 spacecraft were launched and the pair continue to explore where nothing from Earth has flown before.

Their primary mission was the exploration of Jupiter and Saturn.
After making a string of discoveries there -- such as active volcanoes on Jupiter's moon Io and intricacies of Saturn's rings -- the mission was extended.

Voyager 2 went on to explore Uranus and Neptune, and is still the only spacecraft to have visited those outer planets.
The current mission for both spacecraft, the Voyager Interstellar Mission, is to explore the outermost edge of the Sun's domain and beyond."

And this scientific achievements are real, unlike creationist myths.
If only we could get as excellent a value from more mundane enterprises.

If you figure the cost of the entire Voyager program as compared to the miles traveled, or to the length of time-on-the-job?

Voyager was a bargain of the century, even out-stripping the amazing performance of the Mars rovers.

Amazing.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#18544 Sep 18, 2013
fadu singh wrote:
<quoted text>

01. Okay ,Even I have heard that Quran and subsequent Muslim books were written after 200 years following Muhammad's death.

02. What happened in that period of 200 years? Why Quran didn't take physical form in those years? How could the writers of Quran verify the informations they'd gathered from?

03. The last question is a crucial one. The answer to that question would decide if Quran was really a "miracle" or just another unwarranted theory.

PS: You can answer these questions one by one and need not mingle up.
01. What you have "heard" is wrong!!

The Quran was written down in "book form" within two years of the death of prophet. It was not written down in "Book form" during the life time of prophet, because it was not sure that the process of revelation has finished.

But after death of prophet, it became clear that now no more revelation is possible, so the companions of prophet (who were in many thousands at that time), agreed to put that down in book form and it was done.

Then during the reign of Third Caliph (Othman), authentic copies were made from that Quran and dispatched to all major cities of Islamic Empire.

And two of those copies survive to this day.

So your "surmise" that Quran was written 200 years after death of prophet is totally wrong and unfounded.

02. The books of sayings of prophet, called Hadith, what we have today were written after 100 years and the reasons are very clear.

In initial days, people did not want to write sayings of prophet, so that people do not get confused and confuse it with Quran.

But once Quran was well established, people started writing sayings of prophet.

First collections were seen within 100 years of death of prophet, but books which we have today , date from 200 years on wards.

But, people should not get confused, each narration has a chain of narrators, each of them is well known and we can trace authenticity of each Hadith.

Such a thing is not possible for any other book written in the world.

3. Quran is a miracle in many sense. It is a Literally miracle in Arabic language and no human can match it in eloquence and style.

Then it is miracle in its contents and teachings, its teachings are always balaced and golden mean between two extremes.

It is only book which is always current and never gets outdated.

It keeps pace with science and scientific discoveries.

There are many qualities of Quran which make it beyond human ability and fit to be called a miracle.
Thinking

UK

#18545 Sep 18, 2013
You've had 1400 years to bury the truth but people still believe the quran was cobbled together long after mohammed went to paedo heaven.
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
01. What you have "heard" is wrong!!
The Quran was written down in "book form" within two years of the death of prophet. It was not written down in "Book form" during the life time of prophet, because it was not sure that the process of revelation has finished.
But after death of prophet, it became clear that now no more revelation is possible, so the companions of prophet (who were in many thousands at that time), agreed to put that down in book form and it was done.
Then during the reign of Third Caliph (Othman), authentic copies were made from that Quran and dispatched to all major cities of Islamic Empire.
And two of those copies survive to this day.
So your "surmise" that Quran was written 200 years after death of prophet is totally wrong and unfounded.
02. The books of sayings of prophet, called Hadith, what we have today were written after 100 years and the reasons are very clear.
In initial days, people did not want to write sayings of prophet, so that people do not get confused and confuse it with Quran.
But once Quran was well established, people started writing sayings of prophet.
First collections were seen within 100 years of death of prophet, but books which we have today , date from 200 years on wards.
But, people should not get confused, each narration has a chain of narrators, each of them is well known and we can trace authenticity of each Hadith.
Such a thing is not possible for any other book written in the world.
3. Quran is a miracle in many sense. It is a Literally miracle in Arabic language and no human can match it in eloquence and style.
Then it is miracle in its contents and teachings, its teachings are always balaced and golden mean between two extremes.
It is only book which is always current and never gets outdated.
It keeps pace with science and scientific discoveries.
There are many qualities of Quran which make it beyond human ability and fit to be called a miracle.

Since: Mar 12

Devil's hometown

#18546 Sep 18, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
01. What you have "heard" is wrong!!
The Quran was written down in "book form" within two years of the death of prophet. It was not written down in "Book form" during the life time of prophet, because it was not sure that the process of revelation has finished.
But after death of prophet, it became clear that now no more revelation is possible, so the companions of prophet (who were in many thousands at that time), agreed to put that down in book form and it was done.
Then during the reign of Third Caliph (Othman), authentic copies were made from that Quran and dispatched to all major cities of Islamic Empire.
And two of those copies survive to this day.
So your "surmise" that Quran was written 200 years after death of prophet is totally wrong and unfounded.
02. The books of sayings of prophet, called Hadith, what we have today were written after 100 years and the reasons are very clear.
In initial days, people did not want to write sayings of prophet, so that people do not get confused and confuse it with Quran.
But once Quran was well established, people started writing sayings of prophet.
First collections were seen within 100 years of death of prophet, but books which we have today , date from 200 years on wards.
But, people should not get confused, each narration has a chain of narrators, each of them is well known and we can trace authenticity of each Hadith.
Such a thing is not possible for any other book written in the world.
3. Quran is a miracle in many sense. It is a Literally miracle in Arabic language and no human can match it in eloquence and style.
Then it is miracle in its contents and teachings, its teachings are always balaced and golden mean between two extremes.
It is only book which is always current and never gets outdated.
It keeps pace with science and scientific discoveries.
There are many qualities of Quran which make it beyond human ability and fit to be called a miracle.
If whatever you've said is true,then Muhammad did exist.
What are the scientific facts that are mentioned in Quran?
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#18547 Sep 18, 2013
fadu singh wrote:
<quoted text>What are the scientific facts that are mentioned in Quran?
The same ones mentioned in the bible i.e. a flat earth.

Only believers will interpret their holy books is imaginative ways to get around what they are relaly saying. A straight forward reading of the Bible and Quran shows the authors believed in 6 days creation and in a flat earth.
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#18548 Sep 18, 2013
Thinking wrote:
.. people still believe the quran was cobbled together long after mohammed went to paedo heaven.
<quoted text>
Muhammed knew his target audience. Which buttons to press. An uneducated arab of the 7th century given a choice between burning in hell for eternity or 72 virgins in paradise. And no alternative. It is obvious which one he would go for.
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#18549 Sep 18, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>.. many qualities of Quran which make it beyond human ability and fit to be called a miracle.
The only miracle here is that theists like yourself >still< believe in this nonsense, given what you know from being on this forum.

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