Atheism to Defeat Religion by 2038

Apr 25, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Psychology Today

My blog posts on religion have attracted a lot of controversy. Religious people are annoyed by my claim that belief in God will go the way of horse transportation, and for much the same reason, specifically an improved standard of living.

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Thinking

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#18198
Aug 18, 2013
 

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Insulting you doesn't make you any less incorrect.

islam - the religion of the permanently offended.
MUQ wrote:
Look at these "low level responses" to my civil and peaceful post.
This has become the "norm" for these High IQ people on this thread.

“Right click Left click Yay!”

Since: Dec 10

Nehwon

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#18199
Aug 18, 2013
 

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MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
If religions are a successful business and still hold their ground after thousands of years of competition from all other business going around in the world….then why you should be critical of it?
Try to bring any business that is more successful than religion!!
God does not need any money and no money reaches God. The money collected in charity is spent on poors and needy people.
God is above these wants.
2. One aspect of Hindus that I like is that they do not oppose people worshiping any thing and every thing.
This is their positive quality and also their biggest negative quality.
1. Because everything should be looked at with a critical eye. This is how we work to makes things better.

Religion makes the claim they know the perfection of god. And then gets all upset and stabby when the claims are scrutinized...

1a. Yeah, right. All the money goes to the poor. All those imams on TV I see seem to be well fed. And they'll send just enough of it to the desperate to fight on the front lines for them.

2. Ahh, I see. The Hindus allow you to worship freely. But you don't really want to return the favor as evidenced by the negative aspect you said.

The funny (as in odd or strange) thing is that had you been born in the US, I would hazard a guess you would be a fundamentalist Christian. You use the same arguments to promote your version of god.

“Right click Left click Yay!”

Since: Dec 10

Nehwon

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#18200
Aug 18, 2013
 

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MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Science works on the basis of tests and observations, things like our prophet's ascension to heavens are beyond the provisions of "normal science".
These are special acts of God and our science has not reached to that level yet.
What we need is authentic reports that such and such things happened.
Science is just starting to crawl and trying to stand on its wee legs, it need many centuries before it can reach to the level of analyzing acts of God.
Science still has to get its milking teeth removed!!
Do not try to overgrow your shoes.
And science has enabled us in a few hundred years to do a lot of things religion promises but failed to do in thousands of years.

Science has found a way to grow more crops to feed the multitudes, invent machines to weave and clothe the poor, allow communication across the globe and translate languages easily, launch spacecraft to explore the heavens, combat disease, harness the fundamental properties of lightning to light the room and power the computer on which you type, provide warnings of impending natural disasters so you can take appropriate action and, sadly, kill each other on a scale that satan or god of any holy book wish they could.

Meanwhile, religion has given us what?
The proper way to bathe before entering the mosque?
What animals to sacrifice to ward off the plague?
That "heretical" sects of your religion are not an enemy but are a false friend until the enemies of your religion are conquered?
That killing each other in the name of your particular god is a righteous and moral imperative?

“Right click Left click Yay!”

Since: Dec 10

Nehwon

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#18201
Aug 18, 2013
 

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MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Who says Miracles do not happen these days?
Every shoot coming out of earth is a miracle of God.
Every new born baby is a miracle of God.
Any things which is beyond human powers is a miracle of God.
Only fools and blinds (of spiritual matters) do not see miracles of God.
Those with open eyes, see countless miracles right in front of them, they are simply bewildered.
As one Urdu language poet wrote in his vernacular:
"HAR SOO TERI QUDRAT KE HAIN LAKHON JALWE
HAIRAN HOON KI IN DO ANNAKHO SE KYA KYA DEKHOON"
i.e.
"Signs of your glory and spread all around in hundreds of thousands.
I am at a loss to see which one to see and which to ignore with these only Two eyes"!!
You are pessimistic so you do not see any miracles of God, those with positive outlook, see miracles all around them.
The fault my dear brother / sister is with you and not with God or His miracles.
So miracles are no longer supernatural events?

Today it rained. a miracle.
I logged onto Topix. a miracle.
Achoo! I sneezed! a miracle.
A plane crashed killing all 200 aboard. a miracle.
the nation of Israel is reborn. a miracle.
Atheists exist. a miracle.

“And I won't watch this anymore”

Since: Jun 10

the alternate future

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#18202
Aug 18, 2013
 

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greymouser wrote:
<quoted text>
And science has enabled us in a few hundred years to do a lot of things religion promises but failed to do in thousands of years.
Science has found a way to grow more crops to feed the multitudes, invent machines to weave and clothe the poor, allow communication across the globe and translate languages easily, launch spacecraft to explore the heavens, combat disease, harness the fundamental properties of lightning to light the room and power the computer on which you type, provide warnings of impending natural disasters so you can take appropriate action and, sadly, kill each other on a scale that satan or god of any holy book wish they could.
Meanwhile, religion has given us what?
The proper way to bathe before entering the mosque?
What animals to sacrifice to ward off the plague?
That "heretical" sects of your religion are not an enemy but are a false friend until the enemies of your religion are conquered?
That killing each other in the name of your particular god is a righteous and moral imperative?
Nice post and I have to say that I agree with you on most of what you said. Religion has caused a lot of strife and conflict in the world, but there are also other factors at work as well. We must not forget that.

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

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#18203
Aug 18, 2013
 

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What you posted were not miracles Muq and you know it. They are greeting card pleasant events not dazzling impossible miracles from your invisible sky wizard. What do you think about the widely shown Muslim cartoons glorifying suicide bombing to Muslim children?
MUQ wrote:
Look at these "low level responses" to my civil and peaceful post.
This has become the "norm" for these High IQ people on this thread.

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

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#18204
Aug 18, 2013
 

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So you admit you seek total oppression of people who do not worship as you do?
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
2. One aspect of Hindus that I like is that they do not oppose people worshiping any thing and every thing.
This is biggest negative quality.

“Right click Left click Yay!”

Since: Dec 10

Nehwon

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#18205
Aug 18, 2013
 

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Lelouch0 wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice post and I have to say that I agree with you on most of what you said. Religion has caused a lot of strife and conflict in the world, but there are also other factors at work as well. We must not forget that.
There are but that almost sounds like muddying the waters to create doubt that religion has "worked" in the past, so let's keep doing it.

Now focus in and put a spotlight on religion and the benefits it has.

Three items come to my mind -

Prayer has a meditative effect. But you don't need a god or a messiah to do the same thing.

In Western Europe, the Papacy was a check on Kings because of the bluff of excommunication of a nation. Mixed results there and the bluff was finally called with England's Henry VIII.

Aside from Kings, the Church was a keeper of knowledge as long as it wasn't against dogma. I'm no conspiracy buff, but I'd be curious to see what the Vatican has stored in its deeper vaults.

I'm not expecting much as the RCC did have a habit of destroying documents to secure their authority.

Granted, this is Western European religion but from the bits I've learned of other major religions, the basics aren't that much different.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

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Givemeliberty wrote:
What you posted were not miracles Muq and you know it. They are greeting card pleasant events not dazzling impossible miracles from your invisible sky wizard. What do you think about the widely shown Muslim cartoons glorifying suicide bombing to Muslim children?
<quoted text>
Please tell us what do you mean by a Miracle?

Let us start with a,b,c, of the subject.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

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#18207
Aug 18, 2013
 

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GM wrote:
1.

1. Because everything should be looked at with a critical eye. This is how we work to makes things better.

Religion makes the claim they know the perfection of god. And then gets all upset and stabby when the claims are scrutinized...

1a. Yeah, right. All the money goes to the poor. All those imams on TV I see seem to be well fed. And they'll send just enough of it to the desperate to fight on the front lines for them.

2. Ahh, I see. The Hindus allow you to worship freely. But you don't really want to return the favor as evidenced by the negative aspect you said.

The funny (as in odd or strange) thing is that had you been born in the US, I would hazard a guess you would be a fundamentalist Christian. You use the same arguments to promote your version of god.

2.

And science has enabled us in a few hundred years to do a lot of things religion promises but failed to do in thousands of years.

Science has found a way to grow more crops to feed the multitudes, invent machines to weave and clothe the poor, allow communication across the globe and translate languages easily, launch spacecraft to explore the heavens, combat disease, harness the fundamental properties of lightning to light the room and power the computer on which you type, provide warnings of impending natural disasters so you can take appropriate action and, sadly, kill each other on a scale that satan or god of any holy book wish they could.

Meanwhile, religion has given us what?
The proper way to bathe before entering the mosque?
What animals to sacrifice to ward off the plague?
That "heretical" sects of your religion are not an enemy but are a false friend until the enemies of your religion are conquered?
That killing each other in the name of your particular god is a righteous and moral imperative?

3.

So miracles are no longer supernatural events?

Today it rained. a miracle.
I logged onto Topix. a miracle.
Achoo! I sneezed! a miracle.
A plane crashed killing all 200 aboard. a miracle.
the nation of Israel is reborn. a miracle.
Atheists exist. a miracle.
Ans.

1. Looking things with criticism does not mean that you become unreasonable when it comes to religion.

The arguments and reasoning of religions are in front of you, understand it and bring some thing better if you can.

2. What is this? Hindus "allow" us to practice our religion in India? Who told you that Muslims are as part of India as any Hindu? Both Hindus and Muslims are citizens of India and have the same claim on it.

3. Science did its job in what was its sphere, and religions are doing their job in their sphere?

Science and religions are not against each other. Why you compare them with each other?

Religions provide answers for things that are outside purview of science.

3. You are in the same league of people, who have no idea of what they are talking about.

Please define what is a miracle, before I reply to your post.

“Right click Left click Yay!”

Since: Dec 10

Nehwon

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#18209
Aug 18, 2013
 

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MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
1. Looking things with criticism does not mean that you become unreasonable when it comes to religion.
The arguments and reasoning of religions are in front of you, understand it and bring some thing better if you can.

2. What is this? Hindus "allow" us to practice our religion in India? Who told you that Muslims are as part of India as any Hindu? Both Hindus and Muslims are citizens of India and have the same claim on it.

3. Science did its job in what was its sphere, and religions are doing their job in their sphere?
Science and religions are not against each other. Why you compare them with each other?
Religions provide answers for things that are outside purview of science.

3. You are in the same league of people, who have no idea of what they are talking about.
Please define what is a miracle, before I reply to your post.
1) If you propose any idea that doesn't pass scrutiny, is that being unreasonable? Is religion exempt for some reason?

2) You said it yourself - Hindus allows other to practice their religions. It's a positive and a negative. That you also think that's a negative is revealing of your true nature.

3) And what is religion's sphere now? As we understand more of how the world works by science, religion is retreating into the corners of questions we don't know yet. Disease, Lightning, floods, earthquakes, solar and lunar eclipses, battles won, battles lost seem to be losing direct divine intervention. Your version of god is losing her power over natural events and skulking more and more in the shadows like a thief or a stalker.

3 again) You are the one who claims every shoot is a miracle. A positive claim so the burden of proof is upon you to demonstrate that it is a miracle.

Since you brought it up, how about you tell us what you think a miracle is?

3*) And I'm a bit disappointed with the tone of this: "You are in the same league of people, who have no idea of what they are talking about."

I like the discussion and have to give you credit of preserving this long on a forum board that is going to be naturally hostile to your view.

We obviously disagree on many things but if you are tossing me into the enemy category, then I guess all I have to say now is: Shukran. Peace to you and your family.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#18210
Aug 18, 2013
 

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MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Please tell us what do you mean by a Miracle?
Let us start with a,b,c, of the subject.
Magic.

That's it-- plain and simple-- you **demand** that your god work **magic** to suit your every whim.

This has been the case since gods were invented by the first extremely lazy "holy" man.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

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#18211
Aug 19, 2013
 

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Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Magic.
That's it-- plain and simple-- you **demand** that your god work **magic** to suit your every whim.
This has been the case since gods were invented by the first extremely lazy "holy" man.
I am talking about miracles and not magic, you dumbwit.

What is a miracle?

How do you define a miracle?
EdSed

Wishaw, UK

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#18212
Aug 19, 2013
 
I'm not saying that some people are stupid, but....
http://www.atheismuk.com/2013/08/16/science/b...
and...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23729684
.. it hardly needs saying.

(Thanks to AtheismUK)
EdSed

Wishaw, UK

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#18213
Aug 19, 2013
 

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Speaking of stupid...
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
I am talking about miracles and not magic, you dumbwit.
What is a miracle?
How do you define a miracle?
this is another example of 'stupid'. It seems a pre-requisite for belief in miracles, holy prophets and holy lands, gods or pixies.
Thinking

Gillingham, UK

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#18214
Aug 19, 2013
 

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Since when has a painful lack of knowledge prevented godbots from speaking out?

The first link is amusing, the second criminal.
EdSed wrote:
I'm not saying that some people are stupid, but....
http://www.atheismuk.com/2013/08/16/science/b...
and...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23729684
.. it hardly needs saying.
(Thanks to AtheismUK)
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

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#18215
Aug 19, 2013
 

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MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
What is a miracle?
How do you define a miracle?
It is a miracle that you still have a religious faith despite being exposed to rationalist points of view on this forum for so long.

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

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#18216
Aug 19, 2013
 
You don't know what a miracle is? Not surprising as you are a Muslim and very poorly educated. Allow me to educate you again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle

A miracle is an event not ascribable to human power or the laws of nature and consequently attributed to a supernatural, especially divine, agency.[1] Such an event may be attributed to a miracle worker, saint, or religious leader. A miracle is sometimes thought of as a perceptible interruption of the laws of nature.

Now hurry up and show us a miracle happening today that we can observe that is an event that is an interruption of the laws of nature.

So a pretty sunrise or a future child bride to be sold being born is not a miracle as these are natural events.
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Please tell us what do you mean by a Miracle?
Let us start with a,b,c, of the subject.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

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#18217
Aug 19, 2013
 
GM wrote:
1) If you propose any idea that doesn't pass scrutiny, is that being unreasonable? Is religion exempt for some reason?

2) You said it yourself - Hindus allows other to practice their religions. It's a positive and a negative. That you also think that's a negative is revealing of your true nature.

3) And what is religion's sphere now? As we understand more of how the world works by science, religion is retreating into the corners of questions we don't know yet. Disease, Lightning, floods, earthquakes, solar and lunar eclipses, battles won, battles lost seem to be losing direct divine intervention. Your version of god is losing her power over natural events and skulking more and more in the shadows like a thief or a stalker.

3 again) You are the one who claims every shoot is a miracle. A positive claim so the burden of proof is upon you to demonstrate that it is a miracle.

Since you brought it up, how about you tell us what you think a miracle is?

3*) And I'm a bit disappointed with the tone of this: "You are in the same league of people, who have no idea of what they are talking about."

I like the discussion and have to give you credit of preserving this long on a forum board that is going to be naturally hostile to your view.

We obviously disagree on many things but if you are tossing me into the enemy category, then I guess all I have to say now is: Shukran. Peace to you and your family.
Ans.

01. Religions are also subject to the reasonable criterion, but a different level of arguments are needed for religions than for "lower level materialistic subject like science which only deals with materials".

02. No one "allows" people to practice their religions, it is a "self generated right" of every Indian national. The same way we Muslims "allow" people of different faiths to practice their religions.

03. The sphere of religion is how to deal with your Creator and how to deal with your fellow human beings.

Both these subjects are outside the scope of "Modern science which is only interested in the study of materials and things related to matters".

04. I already gave you so many examples of what a miracle is, why should I define what is a miracle. Since you "laughed" at my examples, it should be your turn to define what you mean by a miracle.

05. I am able to survive in this "hostile environment" because I do not seek any recognition or reward from any one.

I consider it my duty to tell people truth and try to answer their genuine queries and doubts. My reward if any is from my Creator and I hope that He shall pardon my shortcomings and my lapses and grant me salvation in the Hereafter.

06. It does not harm in the least if we disagree on any subject. When humans argue, it is not possible that they agree 100 % on every thing.

What is needed is a positive attitude and listen to other side and show respect to each other.

I see people getting off the handle and start using insulting language and start abusing other side on slightest disagreement.

I also say Thank you and hope Peace and blessings of God be on to you.

Have a nice day.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

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#18218
Aug 19, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
You don't know what a miracle is? Not surprising as you are a Muslim and very poorly educated. Allow me to educate you again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle
A miracle is an event not ascribable to human power or the laws of nature and consequently attributed to a supernatural, especially divine, agency.[1] Such an event may be attributed to a miracle worker, saint, or religious leader. A miracle is sometimes thought of as a perceptible interruption of the laws of nature.
Now hurry up and show us a miracle happening today that we can observe that is an event that is an interruption of the laws of nature.
So a pretty sunrise or a future child bride to be sold being born is not a miracle as these are natural events.
<quoted text>
Why you have to go to Wikipedia to define a Miracle?

Miracle is something which is beyond human powers.

So any thing which is happening around us, which we cannot do comes under the general definition of Miracle.

Every thing around us, which we cannot do or unable to do is a miracle.

Now look again with open eyes around you and you will see millions of miracles around you.

But if you close your eyes, you can say that I did not see any thing at all!!

The problem is with you and not with miracles.

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