Atheism to Defeat Religion by 2038

Apr 25, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Psychology Today

My blog posts on religion have attracted a lot of controversy. Religious people are annoyed by my claim that belief in God will go the way of horse transportation, and for much the same reason, specifically an improved standard of living.

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10,801 - 10,820 of 21,502 Comments Last updated 46 min ago

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#11484 Jan 26, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Agreed. And the limit probably should be that you are free to express ideas verbally to those interested in hearing them, meaning that you cannot be systematically suppressed from doing so. The rule exists to keep the marketplace of ideas open, not for the wealthiest interests to pervert the democratic process, wherein "One man, one vote" becomes "One dollar, one vote."
The problem seems to be that freedom of speech has been expanded to freedom of expression, and dumping money into elections or lobbying legislators is called speech. Obviously, some forms of expression are not acceptable, such as bribery and extortion.
Indeed. Free speech must be cut back to just include speech, written, spoken, sung or the like. Artistic expression should always fall under this too.

But that should be then end of it--money should never be included, except as a side issue. The raw spending of money is not speech, per say, it is >>purchase<<. Which is vastly different from speech.

Thus the artist may make a painting that sells or not, but his painting is protected. The sale of the same? Is not--it either does or it does not, having no bearing on the painting itself.

Same for speech.

But corporations, being a convenient legal fiction? Cannot actually speak, having no actual corpus to do the speaking. Speaking by proxy should only be permitted, provided the proxy takes 100% of the responsibility >>in addition<< to the person being spoken for also takes 100% of the responsibility-- they each must share the same fate (whatever it may be).

But again, I would strip all free speech "rights" from corporations, immediately. They are not people-- it is a convenient legal fiction, only. Moreover, I would make it impossible for officers in any corporation to be individually protected from misdeeds the corporation might do-- these officers would each and every one, to 100%, be accountable, personally, for any and all things the corporation may do.

That would put a halt to about 87.5% of corporate evil doings.

:)

Ain't I a stinker?:D

“Fortes Fortuna Juvat, ”

Since: Dec 09

Wichita. Ks.

#11485 Jan 26, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =0D9XyuT-DB8XX
<quoted text>
The contrast was striking.
When the question was, "Name a reason to have an abortion" (the format was like Family Feud), the conservatives answered first, got control of the board, and answered life of the mother and rape. Then, they ran out of answers and kept missing, finally losing control of the board when they answered incest. So, the liberals got a chance to steal, and they answered "None." They realized that that would be many people's answer.
When the question was, "Name the most intriguing aspect of Darwin's theory," the liberals took control by winning the toss-up, and after three correct answers, ran out of answers, which gave the conservative the chance to steal back. They answered "The Big Bang." At least two of them blurted that answer out confidently, even nodding while speaking.
I would love to see the whole show.

Yes it just floored me when they answered the big bang.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#11486 Jan 26, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
You're the third person I respect that has disagreed with me. Perhaps I'm wrong on this matter. I wasn't expecting any dissent. I thought that preserving the human race was a high enough moral good to trump an individual's right to dissent about reproducing. I'll have to rethink it.
We are self-aware beings.

As such, we have both a choice and a responsibility to behave within a moral framework, regardless of the situation.

Were that framework to be discarded simply because it becomes inconvenient, or even at extreme times? Then what means the framework in the first place? It is then reduced to zero value.

So, if for whatever reason, the sole surviving female human finds it repugnant to reproduce with the sole surviving males? Then the final choice of extinction or survival rests entirely in her hands-- it is her body, her choice. Period.

The men can say what they will, to try to be convincing, sure-- free speech being what it is.

But within the framework of free will, the woman gets the final say--it's >>her<< womb, her choice.

The same would be true if the situation were reversed: suppose there are 3 women and one man, as the survivors (ignore the genetic bottle neck for this one--again :D ).

And suppose the solitary man found all three women repugnant such that he wants no part of them, or sharing offspring with any of them.(for whatever reason-- it's his choice, here, so the details do not matter)

If the women tricked him, got him drunk, and had their way? That would be rape-- and equally wrong as the earlier case.

In this, stood-on-it's-head version, the sole choice falls to the male, and it is his sperm, his choice.

Of course-- if the 3 women can figure out how to reproduce without him? Say, merging ova in a lab? More power to them--they will always have girls (no Y chromosome), of course.

Same thing for the earlier one-- if the men can figure out how to produce an offspring in an artificial womb? More power to them, as well.

----------

Bottom line: the moral framework >>must<< survive the worst situation we can imagine--and more.

Otherwise, it's empty.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#11487 Jan 26, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Bless our Savory, born of extra virgin olive oil, and anointed with Cheese's Crust - how grated thou art!
He, who came for our salivation when we were thrown out of the Olive Garden, was twirled on a giant fork and unceremoniously flung onto a wall instead, where he stuck and dried for our sins.
RAmen!

And please pass the sauce.

:)

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#11488 Jan 26, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
And here's the point that the godbots will never understand: we can *think* about moral issues, discuss them, and perhaps come to a consensus. Even if we are wrong, we can learn and correct our errors. Believing you have an 'absolute truth' doesn't allow for fixing mistakes because you never allow that you can *make* a mistake.
Spot-on, Poly! Spot-on.

Just as with science, which due to it's fundamental nature, is automatically self-correcting (even if sometimes it takes a generation or two... heh).

In direct contrast to all religion, which >>only<< changes when forced too by circumstance. And usually the force-changes are ugly--people die, or worse.

If we base our moral framework on logic, reason and observation? Then we admit that we may change it, if superior logic, or additional facts(observation) come to be known.

For example, the US Constitution's framers recognized that it could not possibly be all encompassing, as written. And deliberately put in methodologies to modify it, as new ideas, new information became available.

Again, in direct contrast with >>all<< religion, which by it's very absolutist nature, fights tooth-and-nail any and all changes.

Fortunately? Religions that succeed in resisting change? Eventually die out... being left behind by the ever-expanding universe of knowledge.

Flat Earthers, anyone?:D

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#11489 Jan 26, 2013
He is Coming Soon wrote:
"Nevertheless when the Son of Man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" Luke 18:8
www.scribd.com/doc/31322017 ...
Yes! The son of man has been breathing real hard, for quite a while now.

And Mary is making those "ogodohgodohgodogod" noises for some time too.

Any day now, we can expect a Coming of the Sone of Man.

It ought to be... gooey.

... I kind feel sorry for Mary, though... I mean, 2000 years? She must be sore as hell...

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#11490 Jan 26, 2013
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
"Each and everyone of us must personally, individually come to the full and complete comprehension that we are condemned as sinners right where we stand,here and now."
Man...that is a very degrading faith you follow...
Yep.

Sin: Self-Inflicted Nonsense.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#11491 Jan 26, 2013
[QUOTE who="Charlie Chaplin
"]<quoted text>
Thank God he chose to do things the way he did it. Really draws a line of separation doesn't it? This way you don't have to spend eternity with people like us and we don't have to spend it with people like you. It's so brilliant that you can't understand the reason for it.
[/QUOTE]

Nobody likes you, you know.

Not even the members of your local hate-cult-- they despise you behind your back.

How do I know? I was once in a hate cult myself--everyone hated everyone else-- just as you hate all of them (and yourself too).

It's sad, really- to see such hate as yours.

For only someone full of hate, would happily contemplate infinite torture for another human being.

As you just did, in the post above.

Sad for you, really.

Get help-- hate is not a way to live.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#11494 Jan 26, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
You just said that the scriptures should not be interpreted literally. Once you open that door, you lose control of thought, which is essential to the church. Freethinking is poison to any thought control system.
If people are free to interpret scripture figuratively, the next thing you know, hell is a metaphor, sin is a metaphor, crucifixion is a metaphor, and resurrection is a metaphor. Without a literal Adam defying a literal god by eating a literal apple, there is no original sin, and no need for salvation or Christ. How can you tell the people that Adam, the snake and the apple were allegory, but not the god?
And without a literal hell and the fear it invokes, Christianity has no appeal. The carrot - eternity praising a black hole of narcissistic need - isn't much of a draw. I'd probably rather be unconscious for eternity than be stuck doing that. You couldn't get me to church without the stick - hellfire.
How to interpret scripture is not the work of every Tom , Dick and Harry. It needs some knowledge and to decide which parts are to be taken literally and which are to be taken allegorically.

It is only in the field of religion where very one claims to become expert.

In no other field, like medicine, engineering, technology, electronics, software, computer, unless you have qualifications and experience, you are not allowed to open you mouth.

How come every one claims to have the "right" to interpret scriptures any way he or she likes?

This is another malady which has spread far and wide and created so much confusion amongst the people.

They do not know, whom to listen.

“Exercise Your Brain”

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#11495 Jan 26, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
We are self-aware beings.
As such, we have both a choice and a responsibility to behave within a moral framework, regardless of the situation.
Were that framework to be discarded simply because it becomes inconvenient, or even at extreme times? Then what means the framework in the first place? It is then reduced to zero value.
So, if for whatever reason, the sole surviving female human finds it repugnant to reproduce with the sole surviving males? Then the final choice of extinction or survival rests entirely in her hands-- it is her body, her choice. Period.
The men can say what they will, to try to be convincing, sure-- free speech being what it is.
But within the framework of free will, the woman gets the final say--it's >>her<< womb, her choice.
The same would be true if the situation were reversed: suppose there are 3 women and one man, as the survivors (ignore the genetic bottle neck for this one--again :D ).
And suppose the solitary man found all three women repugnant such that he wants no part of them, or sharing offspring with any of them.(for whatever reason-- it's his choice, here, so the details do not matter)
If the women tricked him, got him drunk, and had their way? That would be rape-- and equally wrong as the earlier case.
In this, stood-on-it's-head version, the sole choice falls to the male, and it is his sperm, his choice.
Of course-- if the 3 women can figure out how to reproduce without him? Say, merging ova in a lab? More power to them--they will always have girls (no Y chromosome), of course.
Same thing for the earlier one-- if the men can figure out how to produce an offspring in an artificial womb? More power to them, as well.
----------
Bottom line: the moral framework >>must<< survive the worst situation we can imagine--and more.
Otherwise, it's empty.
Another alternative would be to go to an ocean in hopes that the bacteria from the body might start another primordial soup.

Since: Mar 11

Chicago, IL

#11496 Jan 26, 2013
Except there is no consensus with believers on what is literal and what is figurative. Even amongst Muslims there is severe disagreement between clerics which is why you animals keep blowing yourselves up.

Islam is no better in this regard they are as deluded as Christians and Jews. The Quran is actually just an ancient piece of fan fiction just the writer didn't have Star Wars or Harry Potter to write fan fiction about so he wrote about Torah and gospel fictional characters.
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
How to interpret scripture is not the work of every Tom , Dick and Harry. It needs some knowledge and to decide which parts are to be taken literally and which are to be taken allegorically.
It is only in the field of religion where very one claims to become expert.
In no other field, like medicine, engineering, technology, electronics, software, computer, unless you have qualifications and experience, you are not allowed to open you mouth.
How come every one claims to have the "right" to interpret scriptures any way he or she likes?
This is another malady which has spread far and wide and created so much confusion amongst the people.
They do not know, whom to listen.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#11497 Jan 26, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
How to interpret scripture is not the work of every Tom , Dick and Harry. It needs some knowledge and to decide which parts are to be taken literally and which are to be taken allegorically.
It is only in the field of religion where very one claims to become expert.
In no other field, like medicine, engineering, technology, electronics, software, computer, unless you have qualifications and experience, you are not allowed to open you mouth.
How come every one claims to have the "right" to interpret scriptures any way he or she likes?
This is another malady which has spread far and wide and created so much confusion amongst the people.
They do not know, whom to listen.
I'm still waiting for you to explain why your leader is a child-raper.

You keep dodging that one.

Why?

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#11498 Jan 26, 2013
albtraum wrote:
<quoted text>
Another alternative would be to go to an ocean in hopes that the bacteria from the body might start another primordial soup.
You did not actually read one single sentence I wrote, did you?

What you said, and what I said, have nothing at all to do with each other.

So, are you one of those True Believers™?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#11499 Jan 27, 2013
albtraum wrote:
I live in Missouri, I'm heading for the caves.
What part? I spent from 1998-2009 in Poplar Bluff. MO.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#11500 Jan 27, 2013
[QUOTE who="Charlie Chaplin
"]<quoted text>
Thank God he chose to do things the way he did it. Really draws a line of separation doesn't it? This way you don't have to spend eternity with people like us and we don't have to spend it with people like you. It's so brilliant that you can't understand the reason for it.
[/QUOTE]

You thank your god for that? You're grateful for hell and eternal torment for those not agreeing with you? Then you're as sadistic as your god.

"Belief in a cruel god makes a cruel man." -Thomas Paine.

"Religion is based ... mainly on fear. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand in hand." - Bertrand Russell

"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon than the word of God." - Thomas Paine

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#11501 Jan 27, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Indeed. Free speech must be cut back to just include speech, written, spoken, sung or the like. Artistic expression should always fall under this too.
But that should be then end of it--money should never be included, except as a side issue. The raw spending of money is not speech, per say, it is >>purchase<<. Which is vastly different from speech.
Thus the artist may make a painting that sells or not, but his painting is protected. The sale of the same? Is not--it either does or it does not, having no bearing on the painting itself.
Same for speech.
But corporations, being a convenient legal fiction? Cannot actually speak, having no actual corpus to do the speaking. Speaking by proxy should only be permitted, provided the proxy takes 100% of the responsibility >>in addition<< to the person being spoken for also takes 100% of the responsibility-- they each must share the same fate (whatever it may be).
But again, I would strip all free speech "rights" from corporations, immediately. They are not people-- it is a convenient legal fiction, only. Moreover, I would make it impossible for officers in any corporation to be individually protected from misdeeds the corporation might do-- these officers would each and every one, to 100%, be accountable, personally, for any and all things the corporation may do.
That would put a halt to about 87.5% of corporate evil doings.
:)

Ain't I a stinker?:D
No, you're absolutely correct.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#11502 Jan 27, 2013
MUQ wrote:
How to interpret scripture is not the work of every Tom , Dick and Harry. It needs some knowledge and to decide which parts are to be taken literally and which are to be taken allegorically. It is only in the field of religion where very one claims to become expert.
Disagree.

We do not allow the priests to go back and correct their errors with claims of "metaphor" and "allegory" as scientists, historians and archeologists reveal them.

For as long as it was practical to do, the bible was taught as the literal and inerrant word of god, and the only source of knowledge possible. Today, that is a hopeless position, so it is modified. That is the central issue, not the current batch of just-so apologetics.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#11503 Jan 27, 2013
MUQ wrote:
In no other field, like medicine, engineering, technology, electronics, software, computer, unless you have qualifications and experience, you are not allowed to open you mouth.
You just made the list, number [24]:

REASONS GIVEN ON TOPIX WHY SKEPTICS AREN'T QUALIFIED TO COMMENT ON THE BIBLE

[1] I took the scripture out of context. It means something other than what it says (context and implied meaning never supplied).
[2] I don't understand literary criticism
[3] It's an allegory, not literal.
[4] It's literal, not an allegory.
[5] Scripture is only transparent to those with a child's perspective
[6] Scripture is only transparent to biblical scholars
[7] I am not filled with the Holy Spirit
[8] That's the mystery of it all. "God works in mysterious ways"
[9] Man's mind is too puny to grasp the immensity of God's truth and justice.
[10] You were obviously never a "true christian"
[11] You don't have enough faith. You have to believe to understand.
[12] You can’t criticize the bible because you don’t believe or understand it.
[13] Why do we think we can pretend to know God?
[14] Scripture always interprets scripture
[15] Ever heard of biblical hermeneutics?
[16] You are not TRULY with truth and sincerity seeking God.
[17] You have to know how to translate Hebrew and Greek
[18] You are using a completely unsupportable transliteration of Scripture
[19] You have clearly not studied the ancient peoples who wrote those things or you would not come up with the conclusions you have.
[20] It takes humility to understand the Bible
[21]“Stop scripture mining."
[22] You have to be familiar with the technical terminologies in the bible before you can comprehend it.
[23] Even Satan can quote scripture.
[24] In no other field, like medicine, engineering, technology, electronics, software, computer, unless you have qualifications and experience, you are not allowed to open you mouth.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#11504 Jan 27, 2013
MUQ wrote:
How come every one claims to have the "right" to interpret scriptures any way he or she likes?
Because they were written in the second person: "Thou shalt not steal" It doesn't say, "Priests - tell your flocks not to steal"

The book was written for unsophisticated bronze age goatherds, in the style of Mother Goose.
MUQ wrote:
This is another malady which has spread far and wide and created so much confusion amongst the people.
They do not know, whom to listen.
I think I know who NOT to listen to:

“Why should I allow that same God to tell me how to raise my kids, who had to drown His own?”- Robert G. Ingersoll

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#11508 Jan 27, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
How to interpret scripture is not the work of every Tom , Dick and Harry. It needs some knowledge and to decide which parts are to be taken literally and which are to be taken allegorically.
It is only in the field of religion where very one claims to become expert.
In no other field, like medicine, engineering, technology, electronics, software, computer, unless you have qualifications and experience, you are not allowed to open you mouth.
How come every one claims to have the "right" to interpret scriptures any way he or she likes?
This is another malady which has spread far and wide and created so much confusion amongst the people.
They do not know, whom to listen.
Wow...you have no greater desire than to be completely and totally controlled, do you?

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