Atheism to Defeat Religion by 2038

Atheism to Defeat Religion by 2038

There are 24182 comments on the Psychology Today story from Apr 25, 2012, titled Atheism to Defeat Religion by 2038. In it, Psychology Today reports that:

My blog posts on religion have attracted a lot of controversy. Religious people are annoyed by my claim that belief in God will go the way of horse transportation, and for much the same reason, specifically an improved standard of living.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Psychology Today.

Andre

Durban, South Africa

#10169 Jan 8, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
You deny the fact of evolution, this makes you an idiot.
You have no proof of god, this also makes you an idiot.
Why do you want to talk to atheists? We already know that people who are stupid enough to believe in god and lie about evolution are creationists.
My dear skeptic, if you can prove evolution to me and I do not believe it,it hardly makes me an idiot. Many extremely bright people are theists - proving your argument wrong.
If I have no absolute proof of God (as I on many occasions admitted) yet believe in God, hardly makes me an idiot ( please make sure of your definition of idiot. There are very strong arguments for God. Please indicate where I have lied about evolution.
Your arguments are emotional and with complete absence of substantial evidence - mere rhetoric. It reflects rather poorly on the atheist position.
All I have seen in the posts I have just responded to is intended insult, and complete absence of proof of any position held.
This is really meaningful.
Andre

Durban, South Africa

#10170 Jan 8, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
What does the Big Bang, abiogenesis and evolution have to do with atheism? Do you have ADHD or something? These are all completely unrelated subjects an trying to tie them together is stupid. It's like saying how can you believe in Jesus when 2% milk tastes different than cheddar cheese and snickers bars taste nothing like Doritos?
Again why should anyone accept god a anything more than a product of someone's imagination?
Proving evolution a hoax will give credence to the atheist point of view? Are you drunk? Atheism is simply not believing in god or deities in general. God is completely unproven and until there is some some objective data for god there is no reason for intelligent people to give the notion the slightest bit of consideration.
Again atheism has nothing to do with the Big Bang, abiogenesis or evolution so so try to stay on topic and stop making an ADHD jackass out of yourself.
<quoted text>
Your proof of evolution please? You believe in something and yet when asked for proof there is none forthcoming. I at least provide you with solid evidence why belief in a supernatural Being is not illogical - as evidence leads there
Andre

Durban, South Africa

#10171 Jan 8, 2013
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
That's just the saddest thing ever. Why would anyone follow such a degrading theology?
Notdeserving of punishment? Shame on you! You believe that if you have transgressed laws you are not guilty and worthy of punishment?

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#10172 Jan 8, 2013
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>Notdeserving of punishment? Shame on you! You believe that if you have transgressed laws you are not guilty and worthy of punishment?
That's not really the point you were making, is it?

IF one breaks the law they may or may not be punished depending upon the circumstances.

You're stating that according to your theology EVERYONE breaks the law. According to your theology, it is literally impossible to NOT break the law. In fact, people are born breaking the law...right?

That is a degrading theology.

Since: Mar 11

Scottsburg, IN

#10174 Jan 8, 2013
You have shown no evidence that belief in the supernatural isn't illogical other than you stating it's not.

And again I have to ask what does evolution, the Big Bang and abiogenesis have to do with atheism? Those are 4 separate and different subjects you just smashed together and made into one. Atheism is not believing in deities it has nothing to do with any of those other three subjects.
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>Your proof of evolution please? You believe in something and yet when asked for proof there is none forthcoming. I at least provide you with solid evidence why belief in a supernatural Being is not illogical - as evidence leads there

Since: Mar 11

Scottsburg, IN

#10175 Jan 8, 2013
You see this is why it is fruitless to debate science with theists. They really know little to nothing about it and merely repeat what apologetic websites tell them. Why?

They desperately want to change the discussion from evidence of deities to atheists traded Yahweh for Darwin or jesus for evolution or the bible for abiogenesis or say just god for science. That is how they want to frame the debate and foolishly we have been letting them. Once they frame the debate in that manner they go off on their empty headed argument pretending they want us to teach them about science when they have no interest in anything other than removing the burden of proof. No matter what scientific information you give them they will ignore it and puke out an apologetic website line.

Instead let's focus on theism vs atheism and allow them to present their case for god while we present our case for reason. Let them state what they believe and why. They hate that like a root canal but that is what we need to do because allowing them to frame the debate saying we replaced god with Darwin is and has been a fruitless endeavor.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#10176 Jan 8, 2013
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>Your proof of evolution please? You believe in something and yet when asked for proof there is none forthcoming. I at least provide you with solid evidence why belief in a supernatural Being is not illogical - as evidence leads there
Viruses.
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#10177 Jan 8, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
You see this is why it is fruitless to debate science with theists....
I can recommend the Glasgow Skeptics to UK contributors...
http://www.skeptic.org.uk/events/skeptics-in-...
I'm assuming there are equally good standards around the UK. It's a good forum for rational discussion and I learn something every time I attend but it depends a lot on the speaker - like many Humanist meetings.

And they exist in the USA too...
http://www.skepticsinthepub.net/Find_a_Group/...
(Just thought I'd mention this :-)

“Exercise Your Brain”

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#10178 Jan 8, 2013
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>Just two points quickly.
There are millions and millions of "good" people - undoubtedly including you. "Good" does not "qualify" any of us for heaven, as none of us "deserve" it. If it was, it will be a "works" based faith.
The Christian faith (based on the Bible and our own conscience) convicts us of sin - the purpose of the law. Deserving of punishment.
A practical everyday example: You killed somebody. When a fair judge hears the case, it will be but a poor excuse to present an argument that you regularly looked after stray animals, cared for your family with love and was an honest worker.? See the issue?. The problem is that we really have a poor picture of holy lives and sin. We treat both very lightly - including many denominations within the Christian faith.
Yes, this proves my point. Two thirds of the world is hellbound then. Of course, the Nation of Islam believes Christians are the infidels, they are the 2nd largest religion. Even Dante's Inferno reserved a place for 'righteous heathens'. Lol, perhaps I'll have to go there, oh wait, I HAVE heard the word so I don't qualify.

I simply can't respect a god that would create me flawed and then punish me for it but that's just me. I also believe the court systems take a person's character into account (or the juries do), a first offender often gets a lighter sentence than a career criminal.

It does sadden me when churches fight amongst themselves, most of us (Christian or atheist or....whatever) are simply doing the best we can with what we've got. I do live by my conscience and if there is a 'soul' that departs the body at death, I would think of it as basically a natural phenomena rather than a spiritual experience. Sorry I'm rambling, but you did make me think, darn it all;0)

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#10179 Jan 8, 2013
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>You have fallen victim of indoctrination.
ironies abound.
Please present proof of evolution. Specifics please.
Shall we be specific about what the term 'evolution' means? For *scientists*, it means that biological species change over geological time.
There is evidence for the existence of God of the Bible, but no irrefutable proof.
Some evidence would be that all knowledge indicates that the universe had a beginning - with no known factor explaining it.This is consistent with the Bible.
It is also consistent with the Bible being false. hence it is not evidence either way.
Now you could kindly explain how nothing exploded (call it a singularity if you wish, but that will still be "something".
Is this your understanding of what the Big bang says? Then the problem is with your understanding.
Nature itself was created as there was no natural forces prior to the "Big Bang".
How do you know? if string theory is correct, then there were. In that system, time goes infinitely into the past and the Big bang was simply a type of phase transition.
Thus, as no natural forces can explain the "Big Bang", it must be of supernatural nature.
Wrong. Causality is a natural process and does not always apply even in the natural world. It is also dependent on time, so even discussing causality before time existed is problematic.
Now this is no irrefutable proof of God of the Bible, but does suggest such a Being.
Only to those who already believe. To others, it simply suggests we don't know about how the universe started.
As evolution is claimed as fact, irrefutable evidence should be presented to substantiate this. If not, it is no more than a mere hypothesis.
Science *never* deals with 'irrefutable' evidence. ALL evidence is potentially refutable. But, in the case of evolution, we have ample evidence that species have changed over geological time. We also have evidence from genetics of the mechanisms of such change.

A particularly good example of evidence of shared ancestry can be found in comparing humans and the other great apes. ERVs are places where viruses have integrated into the genome so they are transmitted from one generation to the next. They place themselves at random points in the genome, so it is very unlikely that two different viruses will both places themselves in identical locations. Because of this, ERVs are very good at determining shared ancestry. What we find is that chimps, for example share more ERVs with humans than, say, gorillas, and share fewer with more distantly related apes. The tree of relatedness using ERVs turns out to be the same as the tree obtained by looking at body structure and that is the same tree as obtained by using relatedness of specific proteins. No explanation other than common descent has been given for this. No,'common design' design doesn't work.
The cliches about liars is getting a bit monotonous and as previously indicated, inconsistent with arguments Christians present. But I will not call you a liar - just ill informed.
ironies again.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#10180 Jan 8, 2013
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>Your proof of evolution please? You believe in something and yet when asked for proof there is none forthcoming. I at least provide you with solid evidence why belief in a supernatural Being is not illogical - as evidence leads there
You are missing the point. Atheism and evolution are not the same thing. Even if evolution were wrong, that would not be evidence for theism.

“Exercise Your Brain”

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#10181 Jan 8, 2013
Andre wrote:
<quoted text> Even your argument of "most intelligent people are atheists" suggests that the minority (as atheists are the minority)are all intelligent. You will excuse my very rough evaluation, but based on the arguments raised on this forum indicates you are wrong.
And then again:

Are Atheists More Intelligent than Theists?

It seems there is some strong evidence that the more intelligent a person is the less he/she believes in the existence of God. In a study done by the psychology department at the University of Edinburgh last year, Gary J. Lewis, Stuart J. Ritchie, and Timothy C. Bates looked at links between lower levels of intelligence and high levels of religiosity.

http://www.midus.wisc.edu/findings/pdfs/1197....

Their findings showed that intelligence was significantly and negatively associated with measures of religion, especially fundamentalism. What was demonstrated was that those with greater cognitive skills are able to form more open-minded (antiauthoritarian) attitudes than those with lesser cognitive abilities. In other words, greater intelligence leads to more open mindedness and individualism; resulting in an intellectual conflict with the arguments made by religious scripture and leaders. This is particularly true with fundamentalism’s literalistic interpretation of scripture.

In another study done three years ago, Average Intelligence Predicts Atheism Rates Across 137 Nations, by Richard Lynn, John Harvey, and Helmuth Nyborg, the authors reviewed evidence pointing to a negative relationship between intelligence and religious belief in the U.S. and Europe.

http://davesource.com/Fringe/Fringe/...Lynn-e...

The factors included not only evidence pointing to a negative relationship between intelligence and religious belief; but also lower percentages of those who are extremely intelligent holding religious beliefs compared with the general population, a decline of religious belief with age among children and adolescents as their cognitive abilities increase, and the decline of religious belief during the course of the twentieth century as the intelligence of populations has increased.

The authors mention 38 other studies that found a negative correlation between intelligence and religious belief; and a study in the Netherlands that reported agnostics scored 4 IQ points higher than believers. In another study it was demonstrated that those who responded to “not religious at all” had the highest IQ.

In the 1990s, a study of members of the American National Academy of Sciences reported that seven percent believed in the existence of God, as compared with approximately ninety percent found in the general population. In Britain, it was found that 3.3 percent of Fellow of the Royal Society believed in the existence of God, while 78.8 percent did not believe.

It seems clear from these studies that intelligence/cognitive abilities determine one’s acceptance of religious mythology.

Since: Mar 11

United States

#10182 Jan 8, 2013
Thanks! I will certainly check these out. But as I said in general be it online or in person we need to stop trying to argue science with theists and most importantly stop lettin them frame the debate to their liking.

We are letting them off the hook and that needs to stop.
EdSed wrote:
<quoted text>I can recommend the Glasgow Skeptics to UK contributors...
http://www.skeptic.org.uk/events/skeptics-in-...
I'm assuming there are equally good standards around the UK. It's a good forum for rational discussion and I learn something every time I attend but it depends a lot on the speaker - like many Humanist meetings.
And they exist in the USA too...
http://www.skepticsinthepub.net/Find_a_Group/...
(Just thought I'd mention this :-)

Since: Mar 11

Scottsburg, IN

#10183 Jan 8, 2013


Rare porn movie to be filmws in the Vatican!
Andre

Durban, South Africa

#10184 Jan 8, 2013
albtraum wrote:
<quoted text>
And then again:
Are Atheists More Intelligent than Theists?
It seems there is some strong evidence that the more intelligent a person is the less he/she believes in the existence of God. In a study done by the psychology department at the University of Edinburgh last year, Gary J. Lewis, Stuart J. Ritchie, and Timothy C. Bates looked at links between lower levels of intelligence and high levels of religiosity.
http://www.midus.wisc.edu/findings/pdfs/1197....
Their findings showed that intelligence was significantly and negatively associated with measures of religion, especially fundamentalism. What was demonstrated was that those with greater cognitive skills are able to form more open-minded (antiauthoritarian) attitudes than those with lesser cognitive abilities. In other words, greater intelligence leads to more open mindedness and individualism; resulting in an intellectual conflict with the arguments made by religious scripture and leaders. This is particularly true with fundamentalism’s literalistic interpretation of scripture.
In another study done three years ago, Average Intelligence Predicts Atheism Rates Across 137 Nations, by Richard Lynn, John Harvey, and Helmuth Nyborg, the authors reviewed evidence pointing to a negative relationship between intelligence and religious belief in the U.S. and Europe.
http://davesource.com/Fringe/Fringe/...Lynn-e...
The factors included not only evidence pointing to a negative relationship between intelligence and religious belief; but also lower percentages of those who are extremely intelligent holding religious beliefs compared with the general population, a decline of religious belief with age among children and adolescents as their cognitive abilities increase, and the decline of religious belief during the course of the twentieth century as the intelligence of populations has increased.
The authors mention 38 other studies that found a negative correlation between intelligence and religious belief; and a study in the Netherlands that reported agnostics scored 4 IQ points higher than believers. In another study it was demonstrated that those who responded to “not religious at all” had the highest IQ.
In the 1990s, a study of members of the American National Academy of Sciences reported that seven percent believed in the existence of God, as compared with approximately ninety percent found in the general population. In Britain, it was found that 3.3 percent of Fellow of the Royal Society believed in the existence of God, while 78.8 percent did not believe.
It seems clear from these studies that intelligence/cognitive abilities determine one’s acceptance of religious mythology.
You are correct with your information.

My comment was based on the responses on this forum - where I find very little (if indeed any) sign of conversation where facts are presented in support of argument - yours is an exception.

I always welcome proper argument which challenges beliefs previously held. If one sticks to a point just because one wants to believe it, it is a bit silly. Without trying to sound arrogant, I have yet to come across any argument that disproves any of the central doctrines of the Christian faith - or even that which is stated in the Bible as fact.

There may be arguments (such as the one raised earlier about contradictions in respect of works and grace) which is based on superficial understanding of the text and the context.

I have come to the conclusion (perhaps incorrectly so) that atheists "believe" in atheism without sound argument, but often as a result of "losing faith" in Christ-ianity. This is so sad and I do not know how a person that does not study the Bible is able to discern truth from lies offered from the pulpit of many "Christian" churches.

But one thing I know - God loves his people and will not let any of them go astray. Consider the guy on the cross next to Jesus - saved within the last hours of his life.

Since: Mar 11

United States

#10185 Jan 8, 2013
Andre: You are correct with your information.

Yes indeed atheists have a higher IQ.

My comment was based on the responses on this forum - where I find very little (if indeed any) sign of conversation where facts are presented in support of argument - yours is an exception.
I always welcome proper argument which challenges beliefs previously held. If one sticks to a point just because one wants to believe it, it is a bit silly.

Like theists.

Without trying to sound arrogant, I have yet to come across any argument that disproves any of the central doctrines of the Christian faith - or even that which is stated in the Bible as fact.

Your bible has thousands of contradictions and errors it has been changed and rewritten so many times it's laughable at this point.

I have come to the conclusion (perhaps incorrectly so) that atheists "believe" in atheism without sound argument, but often as a result of "losing faith" in Christ-ianity.

Atheism means not believing in deities nothing more.

This is so sad and I do not know how a person that does not study the Bible is able to discern truth from lies offered from the pulpit of many "Christian" churches.

I am currently reading the bible cover I cover page to page passage to passage for the 8th time. It grows more humorous with each reading.

But one thing I know - God loves his people and will not let any of them go astray. Consider the guy on the cross next to Jesus - saved within the last hours of his life.

Why should anyone accept the Jesus myth as it was merely stolen from other messiah myths at the time. In fact answer this.

Why should anyone accept god/s as anything more than the product of someone's imagination?

“Exercise Your Brain”

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#10186 Jan 9, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =VG8BX5Y79p4XX
Rare porn movie to be filmws in the Vatican!
love, Love, LOVE The Onion!!!

“Exercise Your Brain”

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#10187 Jan 9, 2013
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>You are correct with your information.
My comment was based on the responses on this forum - where I find very little (if indeed any) sign of conversation where facts are presented in support of argument - yours is an exception.
I always welcome proper argument which challenges beliefs previously held. If one sticks to a point just because one wants to believe it, it is a bit silly. Without trying to sound arrogant, I have yet to come across any argument that disproves any of the central doctrines of the Christian faith - or even that which is stated in the Bible as fact.

But one thing I know - God loves his people and will not let any of them go astray. Consider the guy on the cross next to Jesus - saved within the last hours of his life.
I see, since you don't like facts that don't support you, you regress to Topix replies?

If you haven't come accross anything that disproves YOUR central beliefs in the doctrines....it's because you don't want to.

It isn't sad to turn away from Christianity....it would be far sadder to give lip service to a tarnished beyond redemption set of discarded dreams, which is precisely what religion is.That's what I have done and the relief is immense. You dream of eternal life, the dream of escaping death, the dream that even in death all problems will be solved. The righteous (yourself) will go to heaven and the wicked (those that disagree with you) will burn in hell.

You can't prove any truth in myths by quoting more myth. You're basically saying that the bible is true because the thief on the cross went to heaven....neither of which supports the other.

Sorry, getting frustrated here. Far better to stop for now.

Since: Mar 11

United States

#10188 Jan 9, 2013
The onion rocks :)
albtraum wrote:
<quoted text>
love, Love, LOVE The Onion!!!
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#10189 Jan 9, 2013
I simply don't believe you when you write this:
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>...I always welcome proper argument which challenges beliefs previously held. If one sticks to a point just because one wants to believe it, it is a bit silly...
I do believe that you believe it to be true.

I think you consider some beliefs sacred and don't allow them to be challenged in the same way any belief should be challenged. You fail to challenge all beliefs equally. I think you have a double-standard. All beliefs should be challenged and none held sacred.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/...

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