Atheism to Defeat Religion by 2038

Apr 25, 2012 Full story: Psychology Today 23,072

My blog posts on religion have attracted a lot of controversy. Religious people are annoyed by my claim that belief in God will go the way of horse transportation, and for much the same reason, specifically an improved standard of living.

Full Story

“Exercise Your Brain”

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#10159 Jan 7, 2013
EdSed wrote:
<quoted text>My love for my children isn't sacred. It just 'is'. I try to be honest and to have integrity, as do people generally. Others will judge our success or failure.'Holding them sacred' doesn't come into it.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sacred
<quoted text>No value to you, then. Our comments seem plain enough to me.(If someone needs explanation, perhaps we should feel sorry for them?:-)
I would die for my children, I don't consider that sacred either, it's just part of being a parent.

Nor do I need the promise of heaven or the threat of hell to try to be honest and upright. Why should I?

This is one thing I can't quite understand about theists. They simply do not seem to believe that you can be a decent person without religion. Not only do the seem unable to wrap their minds around that concept, they are also just as sure that a 'good atheist' would go straight to hell for not doing his good deeds in the name of a supernatural deity.....I've always wondered about this.....perhaps I always will.
Andre

Durban, South Africa

#10160 Jan 8, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
It has been presented to you with thousand of observable testable facts. Yes observable how about that? But for the sake of argument letNs pretend all the observable testable falsifiable data for evolution vanished. Poof!
That still wouldn't show a shred of proof for deities so arguing about evolution is meaningless in proof for god.
<quoted text>
If you remember,I have indicated that there is no absolute proof for the existence of God. There are strong arguments, but no indisputable proof.
But please humor me with proof of macro evolution. Maybe just 3 or 4 that proves it beyond reasonable doubt. For a start, how did the universe begin, and how life began.
I agree that proving evolution a hoax will not prove God.(God by default). It would however give some credibility to an atheistic point of view.
Andre

Durban, South Africa

#10161 Jan 8, 2013
EdSed wrote:
<quoted text>My love for my children isn't sacred. It just 'is'. I try to be honest and to have integrity, as do people generally. Others will judge our success or failure.'Holding them sacred' doesn't come into it.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sacred
I agree with you. My mistake.
No value to you, then. Our comments seem plain enough to me.(If someone needs explanation, perhaps we should feel sorry for them?:-)
The idea I was trying to convey is that mere stating a view does not make it true. Thus it would be appropriate to substantiate a point in cases where it differs from that of an "opposing" party.
Andre

Durban, South Africa

#10162 Jan 8, 2013
albtraum wrote:
<quoted text>
This is one thing I can't quite understand about theists. They simply do not seem to believe that you can be a decent person without religion. Not only do the seem unable to wrap their minds around that concept, they are also just as sure that a 'good atheist' would go straight to hell for not doing his good deeds in the name of a supernatural deity.....I've always wondered about this.....perhaps I always will.
Just two points quickly.
There are millions and millions of "good" people - undoubtedly including you. "Good" does not "qualify" any of us for heaven, as none of us "deserve" it. If it was, it will be a "works" based faith.
The Christian faith (based on the Bible and our own conscience) convicts us of sin - the purpose of the law. Deserving of punishment.
A practical everyday example: You killed somebody. When a fair judge hears the case, it will be but a poor excuse to present an argument that you regularly looked after stray animals, cared for your family with love and was an honest worker.? See the issue?. The problem is that we really have a poor picture of holy lives and sin. We treat both very lightly - including many denominations within the Christian faith.
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#10163 Jan 8, 2013
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>.."Good" does not "qualify" any of us for heaven, as none of us "deserve" it. If it was, it will be a "works" based faith.
The bible contradicts itself on this, in some places you are saved by faith, in others by works. Why do you choose Paul teaching over Jesus.

You seem to have accepted fundie creationist myths hook line and sinker. Many christians accept macro evolution.

Since: Mar 11

Chicago, IL

#10164 Jan 8, 2013
What does the Big Bang, abiogenesis and evolution have to do with atheism? Do you have ADHD or something? These are all completely unrelated subjects an trying to tie them together is stupid. It's like saying how can you believe in Jesus when 2% milk tastes different than cheddar cheese and snickers bars taste nothing like Doritos?

Again why should anyone accept god a anything more than a product of someone's imagination?

Proving evolution a hoax will give credence to the atheist point of view? Are you drunk? Atheism is simply not believing in god or deities in general. God is completely unproven and until there is some some objective data for god there is no reason for intelligent people to give the notion the slightest bit of consideration.

Again atheism has nothing to do with the Big Bang, abiogenesis or evolution so so try to stay on topic and stop making an ADHD jackass out of yourself.
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>If you remember,I have indicated that there is no absolute proof for the existence of God. There are strong arguments, but no indisputable proof.
But please humor me with proof of macro evolution. Maybe just 3 or 4 that proves it beyond reasonable doubt. For a start, how did the universe begin, and how life began.
I agree that proving evolution a hoax will not prove God.(God by default). It would however give some credibility to an atheistic point of view.

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#10165 Jan 8, 2013
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>Just two points quickly.

The Christian faith (based on the Bible and our own conscience) convicts us of sin - the purpose of the law. Deserving of punishment.
That's just the saddest thing ever. Why would anyone follow such a degrading theology?

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#10166 Jan 8, 2013
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>Just two points quickly.
There are millions and millions of "good" people - undoubtedly including you. "Good" does not "qualify" any of us for heaven, as none of us "deserve" it. If it was, it will be a "works" based faith.
The Christian faith (based on the Bible and our own conscience) convicts us of sin - the purpose of the law. Deserving of punishment.
A practical everyday example: You killed somebody. When a fair judge hears the case, it will be but a poor excuse to present an argument that you regularly looked after stray animals, cared for your family with love and was an honest worker.? See the issue?. The problem is that we really have a poor picture of holy lives and sin. We treat both very lightly - including many denominations within the Christian faith.
Apologist answer to an illogical proposition with no proof behind it whatsoever.

When you're figured out that you can't prove your god & that you're lying to yourself, you'll become atheist like most intelligent people already are.
Andre

Durban, South Africa

#10167 Jan 8, 2013
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
The bible contradicts itself on this, in some places you are saved by faith, in others by works. Why do you choose Paul teaching over Jesus.
You seem to have accepted fundie creationist myths hook line and sinker. Many christians accept macro evolution.
You are somewhat mistaken as you have possibly not done a proper exegesis of the texts
I will thus be very happy to receive the contradictory texts you wish to offer in support - if you can.
Whether many Christians accept macro evolution has nothing to do with evidence for it. A very poor argument.
Andre

Durban, South Africa

#10168 Jan 8, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
Apologist answer to an illogical proposition with no proof behind it whatsoever.
When you're figured out that you can't prove your god & that you're lying to yourself, you'll become atheist like most intelligent people already are.
Sorry to say, a very poor argument. Possibly in the absence of solid evidence? Even your argument of "most intelligent people are atheists" suggests that the minority (as atheists are the minority)are all intelligent. You will excuse my very rough evaluation, but based on the arguments raised on this forum indicates you are wrong. Nothing personal. You are most probably a really great person.
Andre

Durban, South Africa

#10169 Jan 8, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
You deny the fact of evolution, this makes you an idiot.
You have no proof of god, this also makes you an idiot.
Why do you want to talk to atheists? We already know that people who are stupid enough to believe in god and lie about evolution are creationists.
My dear skeptic, if you can prove evolution to me and I do not believe it,it hardly makes me an idiot. Many extremely bright people are theists - proving your argument wrong.
If I have no absolute proof of God (as I on many occasions admitted) yet believe in God, hardly makes me an idiot ( please make sure of your definition of idiot. There are very strong arguments for God. Please indicate where I have lied about evolution.
Your arguments are emotional and with complete absence of substantial evidence - mere rhetoric. It reflects rather poorly on the atheist position.
All I have seen in the posts I have just responded to is intended insult, and complete absence of proof of any position held.
This is really meaningful.
Andre

Durban, South Africa

#10170 Jan 8, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
What does the Big Bang, abiogenesis and evolution have to do with atheism? Do you have ADHD or something? These are all completely unrelated subjects an trying to tie them together is stupid. It's like saying how can you believe in Jesus when 2% milk tastes different than cheddar cheese and snickers bars taste nothing like Doritos?
Again why should anyone accept god a anything more than a product of someone's imagination?
Proving evolution a hoax will give credence to the atheist point of view? Are you drunk? Atheism is simply not believing in god or deities in general. God is completely unproven and until there is some some objective data for god there is no reason for intelligent people to give the notion the slightest bit of consideration.
Again atheism has nothing to do with the Big Bang, abiogenesis or evolution so so try to stay on topic and stop making an ADHD jackass out of yourself.
<quoted text>
Your proof of evolution please? You believe in something and yet when asked for proof there is none forthcoming. I at least provide you with solid evidence why belief in a supernatural Being is not illogical - as evidence leads there
Andre

Durban, South Africa

#10171 Jan 8, 2013
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
That's just the saddest thing ever. Why would anyone follow such a degrading theology?
Notdeserving of punishment? Shame on you! You believe that if you have transgressed laws you are not guilty and worthy of punishment?

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#10172 Jan 8, 2013
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>Notdeserving of punishment? Shame on you! You believe that if you have transgressed laws you are not guilty and worthy of punishment?
That's not really the point you were making, is it?

IF one breaks the law they may or may not be punished depending upon the circumstances.

You're stating that according to your theology EVERYONE breaks the law. According to your theology, it is literally impossible to NOT break the law. In fact, people are born breaking the law...right?

That is a degrading theology.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#10174 Jan 8, 2013
You have shown no evidence that belief in the supernatural isn't illogical other than you stating it's not.

And again I have to ask what does evolution, the Big Bang and abiogenesis have to do with atheism? Those are 4 separate and different subjects you just smashed together and made into one. Atheism is not believing in deities it has nothing to do with any of those other three subjects.
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>Your proof of evolution please? You believe in something and yet when asked for proof there is none forthcoming. I at least provide you with solid evidence why belief in a supernatural Being is not illogical - as evidence leads there

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#10175 Jan 8, 2013
You see this is why it is fruitless to debate science with theists. They really know little to nothing about it and merely repeat what apologetic websites tell them. Why?

They desperately want to change the discussion from evidence of deities to atheists traded Yahweh for Darwin or jesus for evolution or the bible for abiogenesis or say just god for science. That is how they want to frame the debate and foolishly we have been letting them. Once they frame the debate in that manner they go off on their empty headed argument pretending they want us to teach them about science when they have no interest in anything other than removing the burden of proof. No matter what scientific information you give them they will ignore it and puke out an apologetic website line.

Instead let's focus on theism vs atheism and allow them to present their case for god while we present our case for reason. Let them state what they believe and why. They hate that like a root canal but that is what we need to do because allowing them to frame the debate saying we replaced god with Darwin is and has been a fruitless endeavor.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#10176 Jan 8, 2013
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>Your proof of evolution please? You believe in something and yet when asked for proof there is none forthcoming. I at least provide you with solid evidence why belief in a supernatural Being is not illogical - as evidence leads there
Viruses.
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#10177 Jan 8, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
You see this is why it is fruitless to debate science with theists....
I can recommend the Glasgow Skeptics to UK contributors...
http://www.skeptic.org.uk/events/skeptics-in-...
I'm assuming there are equally good standards around the UK. It's a good forum for rational discussion and I learn something every time I attend but it depends a lot on the speaker - like many Humanist meetings.

And they exist in the USA too...
http://www.skepticsinthepub.net/Find_a_Group/...
(Just thought I'd mention this :-)

“Exercise Your Brain”

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#10178 Jan 8, 2013
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>Just two points quickly.
There are millions and millions of "good" people - undoubtedly including you. "Good" does not "qualify" any of us for heaven, as none of us "deserve" it. If it was, it will be a "works" based faith.
The Christian faith (based on the Bible and our own conscience) convicts us of sin - the purpose of the law. Deserving of punishment.
A practical everyday example: You killed somebody. When a fair judge hears the case, it will be but a poor excuse to present an argument that you regularly looked after stray animals, cared for your family with love and was an honest worker.? See the issue?. The problem is that we really have a poor picture of holy lives and sin. We treat both very lightly - including many denominations within the Christian faith.
Yes, this proves my point. Two thirds of the world is hellbound then. Of course, the Nation of Islam believes Christians are the infidels, they are the 2nd largest religion. Even Dante's Inferno reserved a place for 'righteous heathens'. Lol, perhaps I'll have to go there, oh wait, I HAVE heard the word so I don't qualify.

I simply can't respect a god that would create me flawed and then punish me for it but that's just me. I also believe the court systems take a person's character into account (or the juries do), a first offender often gets a lighter sentence than a career criminal.

It does sadden me when churches fight amongst themselves, most of us (Christian or atheist or....whatever) are simply doing the best we can with what we've got. I do live by my conscience and if there is a 'soul' that departs the body at death, I would think of it as basically a natural phenomena rather than a spiritual experience. Sorry I'm rambling, but you did make me think, darn it all;0)

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#10179 Jan 8, 2013
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>You have fallen victim of indoctrination.
ironies abound.
Please present proof of evolution. Specifics please.
Shall we be specific about what the term 'evolution' means? For *scientists*, it means that biological species change over geological time.
There is evidence for the existence of God of the Bible, but no irrefutable proof.
Some evidence would be that all knowledge indicates that the universe had a beginning - with no known factor explaining it.This is consistent with the Bible.
It is also consistent with the Bible being false. hence it is not evidence either way.
Now you could kindly explain how nothing exploded (call it a singularity if you wish, but that will still be "something".
Is this your understanding of what the Big bang says? Then the problem is with your understanding.
Nature itself was created as there was no natural forces prior to the "Big Bang".
How do you know? if string theory is correct, then there were. In that system, time goes infinitely into the past and the Big bang was simply a type of phase transition.
Thus, as no natural forces can explain the "Big Bang", it must be of supernatural nature.
Wrong. Causality is a natural process and does not always apply even in the natural world. It is also dependent on time, so even discussing causality before time existed is problematic.
Now this is no irrefutable proof of God of the Bible, but does suggest such a Being.
Only to those who already believe. To others, it simply suggests we don't know about how the universe started.
As evolution is claimed as fact, irrefutable evidence should be presented to substantiate this. If not, it is no more than a mere hypothesis.
Science *never* deals with 'irrefutable' evidence. ALL evidence is potentially refutable. But, in the case of evolution, we have ample evidence that species have changed over geological time. We also have evidence from genetics of the mechanisms of such change.

A particularly good example of evidence of shared ancestry can be found in comparing humans and the other great apes. ERVs are places where viruses have integrated into the genome so they are transmitted from one generation to the next. They place themselves at random points in the genome, so it is very unlikely that two different viruses will both places themselves in identical locations. Because of this, ERVs are very good at determining shared ancestry. What we find is that chimps, for example share more ERVs with humans than, say, gorillas, and share fewer with more distantly related apes. The tree of relatedness using ERVs turns out to be the same as the tree obtained by looking at body structure and that is the same tree as obtained by using relatedness of specific proteins. No explanation other than common descent has been given for this. No,'common design' design doesn't work.
The cliches about liars is getting a bit monotonous and as previously indicated, inconsistent with arguments Christians present. But I will not call you a liar - just ill informed.
ironies again.

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