Atheism to Defeat Religion by 2038

Atheism to Defeat Religion by 2038

There are 24178 comments on the Psychology Today story from Apr 25, 2012, titled Atheism to Defeat Religion by 2038. In it, Psychology Today reports that:

My blog posts on religion have attracted a lot of controversy. Religious people are annoyed by my claim that belief in God will go the way of horse transportation, and for much the same reason, specifically an improved standard of living.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Psychology Today.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#22088 Apr 20, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
"The Declaration of Independence laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity".- John Adams
What are the first precepts of Christianity? That's an ill-defined concept. The ones they want in the courthouses are the Ten Commandments.

Consider this piece of Christian revisionism at http://tifwe.org/resources/moral-law-and-the-... entitled "Moral Law and the Ten Commandments"

"Once I was given a private tour of the United States House of Representatives. Our tour guide, the chief of staff for a congressman, had us go up and sit in the Speaker’s chair, look straight ahead, and tell him what we saw. Directly in front of us was a representation of Moses, whose writings were a primary basis for our rule of law. Although we might acknowledge the moral foundations of our nation’s laws, many believers are unclear about the place of biblical law in our personal and public life.

"The place of law in general, the influence of the Ten Commandments in particular, and the application of law to public life are all topics that provide an important framework for making wise decisions in our work and in economics. With this framework of uprightness and honesty, Christians and non-Christians alike are best equipped to love their neighbor and serve others through their work and business transactions."

Like the Adam's quote, that's simply incorrect. The Christian god would not have approved of America. It had no law instructing Americans to worship it. In fact, it guaranteed them the right not to. And there was no law forbidding the worship of idols, or of keeping the sabbath holy.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#22089 Apr 20, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:

"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity".- John Adams


Also clearly wrong.

The principles of Christianity were indissolubly linked to the principles of monarchy. There is almost no connection between Christian philosophy and Americanism, which is characterized by principles like democracy, egalitarianism, the rule of law, personal political freedoms, and limited, transparent, and secular government - all humanistic, Enlightenment ideas, and all reactions to the theocratic traditions of the Middle Ages. Where are any of those ideas in the Christian bible, and why weren't they part of the governments of the Middle Ages?

Americanism is a repudiation of kings, aristocrats, and authoritarianism. I can't give faith based systems any credit for the incredible new ideas embodied in that Constitution because of the inclusion of a word or phrase about creators in the Declaration, and none at all in the Constitution itself. This new form of government - liberal democracy - was a humanist vision, one that saw human beings as autonomous, self-governing citizens. This was in stark contrast to previous traditions that saw people as powerless subjects under the thumbs of god and king.

Sorry, Buck, but I can't credit Christianity for because somebody stuck the words "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights" into a sentence. How would the world be different had that sentence read, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are equal and deserving of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."?

And where was this god to help us secure those rights. Nowhere, as usual.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#22090 Apr 20, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity".- John Adams
Buck Crick wrote:
“The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.”- United States Congress 1782
Mikko wrote:
<quoted text>
The Declaration of Independence laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity.(misattribution; actual author John Quincy Adams)
-----
http://fakehistory.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/f...
-----
http://fakehistory.wordpress.com/2009/06/15/f...
Good eye, Mikko.

One of your links says that it wasn't John Quincy Adams either. From http://fakehistory.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/f... :

"Did John Quincy Adams say, "The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: It connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity" on 14 July 1821? No. The words were written by John Wingate Thornton, and were part of his introduction to a collection of American revolutionary-era sermons published in 1860."

It doesn't actually matter who said the words if they were simply the opinion of one man, or the sentiments of a minority of them. Christians are famous for trying to assume credit for the progress that came from breaking free from the Christian bible's sterile and stultifying influence, and here was yet another example of that, whoever wrote the words.

The take-home message is the caliber of this scholarship and the ethics underlying it. I'll assume that Buck was unaware that he was being used as a vector to disseminate Christian revisionist disinformation.

But that is obviously not the case with whoever generated the lies. Those are the ethics of Christian apologists that we are all so familiar with, and why many of us simply refuse to accept anything from such sources any more.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#22091 Apr 20, 2014
MUQ wrote:
I doubt you know anything about these names, just copied from somewhere.
That is correct. Did you have a point to go with that?
MUQ wrote:
And these are not religions.
They are the gods of dead religions.
MUQ wrote:
Even that does not negate my logic.
You didn't use logic. You made the unsupported claim that "It is only religions that stand test of time." That long list proved you incorrect. Religions don't stand the test of time. Thousands of religions have already died. The question that remains is whether any will survive the test of time. Christianity is already dying everywhere it is known, with countries like Mikko's leading the way, and countries like mine and Latin America, where people are less well educated, bringing up the rear.

In your part of the world, there is much more work to do before Allah can join Zeus and Quetzalcoatl on the trash heap with the other forgotten gods listed above, which will be Jehovah-Jesus' final home as well.

But there is no reason to believe that all of that will not happen in the course of time as well, your faith to the contrary notwithstanding. Sorry, but you can't stop the trajectory of history, not even with a nuke, which would only accelerate your faith's demise..

Since: Feb 14

Fukuoka, Japan

#22092 Apr 21, 2014
MUQ1 wrote:
<quoted text>

1. Obviously you do not have any idea about religions as how they started. they did not start the was our Modern Thinkers think it started.

2. It did not start from darkness and then slowly came to light, but it started from full light and people tried to pull it toward darkness.

3. There has always been only one true religion, all thru ages. People tried to corrupt it and they gave their own names to these corrupted and distorted religions.

4. Obviously you have neither any info, nor any aptitude to think and analyze these matters.
Your comments are very childish, considering that you have mixed fictions and fantasies like Santa Clause with Creator of this Universe and prophets and Divine Revelation.
1. I used to get average of 5+ out of 6 in RLE (Religion Lifeview and Ethics) In norway. I have a general idea if how they work.

2. So this it how you sound to me; "It did not start from darkness and then slowly came to light, but it started from full light and people tried to pull it toward darkness."

Yes, to me it sounds like you are talking about some kind of fairy tail story?

3 & 4. Dammnit always trying to sayin' Your religion is right, give it a rest. How do you know this, how can you freakin' be sure, there are over a thousand religions, there has been many religions even before the greek, even after islam. How can you? What is wrong With you, stop acting like you know everything, when you reality you know nothing, and you will never know either, if you keep up this childish attitude.

There are million of children who believe or believed in Santa Claus, but when they grow up, they grow out of it. I do not need to compare, because they already are the same.

“SATYAMEV JAYATE-TRUTH WINS ”

Since: Mar 14

JUBAIL, KSA

#22093 Apr 21, 2014
What did Prophet say?(The Other side)

Selections from the book MISHKAT AL MASABEEH) Part-0 (Introduction by MUQ)

I think every one will agree me, that there is no shortage of EXPERTS on these threads, who cut and paste AUTHENTIC sayings from Islamic scriptures.

It is no secret that these EXPERTS choose only few selected items from the vast collection of sayings of Prophet PBUH.

And every one can also see that their aim from this is not to spread Islamic knowledge, but only to malign Islam and personal character of Prophet PBUH.

But there are so many other sayings of our Prophet PBUH, which these EXPERTS some how miss or ignore knowingly or un knowingly. It is because of this BUILT-IN filtering that does not allow any good saying from our Prophet PBUH to pass thru.

Here I present some sayings of our prophet from an authentic book called MISHKAT AL MASABEEH. It is not a Primary book of Hadith, but compilation of sayings recorded in Original books.

Chain of Narrators is not mentioned, so as to make it easy for common people, but the references of the original books are mentioned.

My aim from this is to bring the other side also, so any unbiased and fair minded person can see what the real teachings of our prophet were.

As regards the EXPERTS, I leave them alone; this has been their best pastime for 1400 years.

What did prophet preach?(The other side of story)

Selection from the book MISHKAT AL MASABEEH (an authentic collection of sayings of prophet) Part-11

Subject: Dealing with kin

67. Prophet PBUH said “His nose be rubbed in nose, his nose be rubbed in dust, his nose be rubbed in dust, the companions asked “Whose O prophet of Allah”. He said “One who finds his parents or one of them in old age and still does not earn paradise by treating them well.”

68. Some one asked Prophet PBUH,“who is best to receive my respect and aid, Prophet PBUH said “Your mother”, he repeated this question three times and each time Prophet PBUH said the same thing. On fourth occasion he said “Your father”

69. Prophet PBUH said “If any one wants that he be given blessings in his provision and his life be long, then he should deal fairly with his kith and kin folks”

70. Prophet PBUH said “It is not dealing fairly with your kith and kin if you only reciprocate. But the one doing so is that even when he is not treated fairly, he should not deter from treating them fairly”

71. Some one asked “Is there on us rights of parents once they are dead”. Prophet PBUH said “Yes, that you should ask Forgiveness and Mercy from Allah for them, and fulfill their trusts and deal kindly with their kinfolks and treating their friends with kindness”

72. Prophet PBUH said “Reward for some one who looks at their parents with love is that of an Hajj or UMRAH. Some one asked “even if one look at them 100 times is a day?”. The Prophet PBUH said “Allah’s bounties are endless”

73. Prophet PBUH said “The right of elder brother on younger brothers is like of father over his son.

“AU KAMA QAAL ALAIHI AL SALAT WA SALAAM (Prophet PBUH said these or similar words)

Contd.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#22094 Apr 21, 2014
MUQ1 wrote:
What did Prophet say?.[snip]
Who cares? Do you have anything from Carlin or Louis CK?

Buck Crick

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#22095 Apr 22, 2014
DebraE wrote:
<quoted text>
"What is it the Bible teaches us?-- rapine, cruelty, and murder. What is it the Testament teaches us?-- to believe that the Almighty committed debauchery with a woman engaged to be married, and the belief of this debauchery is called faith.” Thomas Paine
Oh, I can play this all day!
"There is not one redeeming feature in our superstition of Christianity. It has made one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites." Thomas Jefferson
Did you know that when Martha was baptized into a church, George sat outside and read a newspaper until she was ready to go home?
No, but if you hum a few bars I'll try to pick it up.

Buck Crick

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#22096 Apr 22, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
That can't be correct, Buck. The American founding could not have occurred until Enlightenment Age thinkers like Locke, Montesquieu, Rousseau and Voltaire had laid the philosophical foundation for a liberal, democratic, secular state. It could not have happened in 800 AD, 1000 AD or 1200 AD, even though the Christian bible was already centuries old.
In fact, that bible, in which the model for government was monarchy and the claim of a divine right of kings to rule, was used to defend the ancien régime. With only Christian philosophy in play, dictatorship is the rule. It's the biblical model for the relationship between god and mankind,kind and subject, slave owner and slave, husband and wife, and parent and child - all absolute rule. That is the legacy and contribution of Christianity and god belief to the field of civil rights and personal political freedom
So why should I be crediting the church for my rights? The creator to which the founders referred could not have been the Christian god.
Perhaps you'd like to credit the deist god, who left no bible, and who had no effect on the universe after creating it and leaving it to evolve. Is that who you would like to credit and thank for your rights?
I didn't bother to credit anyone or anything for my rights.

I stated what America's founders credited for our rights. And I am correct.

That specific point is one of great contention around here. And every atheist who has commented on it has been wrong.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#22097 Apr 22, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
I didn't bother to credit anyone or anything for my rights. I stated what America's founders credited for our rights.
Oh. I thought that you were talking about something more significant than that. I thought you were talking about where our rights actually came from, and what contribution the church or its god made to that. What if they had credited the stars? Would that matter any more or less?

Incidentally, I *DO* credit somebody for my rights, but it's not any creator.

Moreover, crediting a creature that did nothing to secure those rights for me instead of the people whose great ideas and courage did seems a little ungrateful to me.

Buck Crick

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#22098 Apr 22, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh. I thought that you were talking about something more significant than that. I thought you were talking about where our rights actually came from, and what contribution the church or its god made to that. What if they had credited the stars? Would that matter any more or less?
Incidentally, I *DO* credit somebody for my rights, but it's not any creator.
Moreover, crediting a creature that did nothing to secure those rights for me instead of the people whose great ideas and courage did seems a little ungrateful to me.
Sorry for the confusion.

They needed a basis for equality among humanity. They could not seem to find any basis other than a special attribute of human creation conferred by the divine, as opposed to ordinary animal creation. Some bees are workers, some drones by birth, but not us - that kind of contrast.
spider

Hitchin, UK

#22099 Apr 22, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry for the confusion.
They needed a basis for equality among humanity. They could not seem to find any basis other than a special attribute of human creation conferred by the divine, as opposed to ordinary animal creation. Some bees are workers, some drones by birth, but not us - that kind of contrast.
Good point,,, some men are workers by birth,,,, other men are parasites by birth.
Religion seems to have an undeniable history on the parasitic side.

“Common sense prevails.”

Since: Mar 14

3rd rock from the sun.

#22100 Apr 22, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
No, but if you hum a few bars I'll try to pick it up.
You have no answer, so dodge a reply little Bucky Boy. We know you have no substance or rationale. If you want to play a game of "quotes" bring some ammunition;0)
MUQ

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#22101 Apr 22, 2014
Elixz wrote:
1. I used to get average of 5+ out of 6 in RLE (Religion Lifeview and Ethics) In norway. I have a general idea if how they work.

2. So this it how you sound to me; "It did not start from darkness and then slowly came to light, but it started from full light and people tried to pull it toward darkness."

Yes, to me it sounds like you are talking about some kind of fairy tail story?

3 & 4. Dammnit always trying to sayin' Your religion is right, give it a rest. How do you know this, how can you freakin' be sure, there are over a thousand religions, there has been many religions even before the greek, even after islam. How can you? What is wrong With you, stop acting like you know everything, when you reality you know nothing, and you will never know either, if you keep up this childish attitude.

5.There are million of children who believe or believed in Santa Claus, but when they grow up, they grow out of it. I do not need to compare, because they already are the same.
Ans.

1. I am happy to learn about your excellent marks in your exams. But good marks in exams does not NECESSARILY mean that you got depth in studies. It only shows how much you remembered from the PRESCRIBED BOOKS.

2. Yes according to Islam, the first man was also the first prophet. So it was a degression from light to darkness.

I doubt your PRESCRIBED BOOKS in class would say that!

3. I am not saying MY religion is right, what I am saying that there is only one religion which all prophets preached.

All other religions (many of which we see before our eyes) are the distorted versions of the same old religion.

5. If you compare Islam with Santa Claus and other fairy tale stuff, then I doubt that those high marks in school exams did any thing good to your DEPTH of reason and logic.

Buck Crick

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#22102 Apr 23, 2014
DebraE wrote:
<quoted text>
You have no answer, so dodge a reply little Bucky Boy. We know you have no substance or rationale. If you want to play a game of "quotes" bring some ammunition;0)
Not only do you have no answer, you are too dumb to provide a relevant question.

Nobody cares where George Washington was sitting when his wife was baptized. He could have been having an intestinal gas attack. Who knows? Who cares?

On the relationship of government and God, he made himself clear:

"While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian."

"The blessing and protection of Heaven are at all times necessary but especially so in times of public distress and danger. The General hopes and trusts that every officer and man will endeavor to live and act as becomes a Christian soldier, defending the dearest rights and liberties of his country".

-George Washington, The Writings of Washington, John C. Fitzpatrick, editor (Washington: Government Printing Office, 1932), Vol. XI, pp. 342-343, General Orders of May 2, 1778.

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EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#22103 Apr 23, 2014
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>..blather..blah....
http://www.jesusandmo.net/2014/04/23/group/
Religion = superstition
It's divisive and outdated

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EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#22104 Apr 23, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Nonsense.
More religions have faded into history than presently exist. Here are some of gods, only one of which still has its religion:
Nergal, Obatala, Aigle, Aglauros, Egle, Heget, Yun Dun, Väinämöinen, Varpulis, Chloris, Bilfrost, Big Head, Nokomis, Charun, Cotys, Ull, Shen Nong, Angak' Chin Mana, Atropos, Nefertum, Nocoma, Nijole, Almudj, Ken, Skylla, Cauac, Zemyna, Koko, Xi Wangmu, Tiwaz, Chac Xib Chac, Coltus, Huang Gun, Djanggawul, Skadi, Erythia, Camenae, Hurrican, Nik, Ereshkegal, Thiassi, Kothar, Tamendonare, Madderakka, Arsnuphis, Anatiwa, Igigi, Turan, Seti, Dian Cecht, Heqet, Thalassa, Feng Shui, Philammon, Anet, Chu Jung, Anapel, Hemere, Hukere, God G, Da Yu, Styx, God E, Dreamtime, Kybele, Dijun, Muses, BellBirdBrothers, Endovelicus, Li Ba Bai, Atai, Xiuhtecuhtli, Estasanatlehi, Amalthea, Silvanus, Gucup Cakix, Achelois, Li Er, Neit, Arnakuagsak, Ndo'yet, Okypete, Buku, Untunktahe, Awitelin Tsta, Mwambu, Po, Laertes, Hapakhered, Mamaragan, Huixtocihuatl, Chu Pa Chieh, Ruhanga, Atahensic, Kan Ajana, Yan Luo Wang, Mephitis, Liu Hai, Calliope, Sinaa, Mehen, Ceucy, Gurumukas, T'ao T'ieh, Unktehi, Dylan, Geirskokul, Sandy, Ashtoreth, Kwatee, Ch'uang K'ung, Palee, Huwawa, Onuris, Rig, Baldur, Latinus, Nyikang, Coqui Huani, Harakan, Kanassa, Nun, Orans, Kamonou, Echidna, Hemera, Mamaragan, Han Hsien Tzu, Fotla, Issitoq, Viracocha, Sui Ren, Itzamna, Bon Dieu, Piquete Zina, Basuki, Bellifluficus, Spider Woman, Amun Ra, Illuyankas, Radgrid, Atum, Kek, Jesus, Xuan Zang, Wuluwait, Cronus, Borr, Autrimpas, Amesha Spentas, Luk Xing, Month, Porewit, Ga Gaah, Tartaros, Guede, Mani, Ephialtes, Yu Shun, Charites, Allowat Sakima, Macuilcozcacuahtli, Tethys, Ix Chup, Things, Dongo, Metis, Sphinx, Jotunheim, Oreades, Louhi, Ah Tzul, Wandjina, Amn, Zephyros, Chulyen, Mamitu, Tlahuixcalpantec, Moloch, Auster, Suttung, Samanelis, Kumokum, DreamtimeSnake, Snoqalm, Striges, Namorodo, Thanatus, Rosmerta, Lofn, Sothis, Akbul, Rindr, Nereides, Ahuramazda, Taueret, Nine Worlds, Hypnos, Pihuechenyi, Pichana Gobeche, Menoetius, Leto, Xmulzencab, God S, Alicha, Ploutos, God Ch, Lu Ban, Ouranos, Xaman Ek, Kerberos, Blodeuedd, Tawhiri Ma Tea, Kherty, Tai Sui Xing, Hsi Ho, Yin, Hero Twins, Hope, Hun Nal Ye, Paiva, Limoniads, Ah Tzenul, Beydo, Ch'u Kiang Wang, Ramakian, Sibilja, Sosom, Kwolam, Khonsu, Jiang Qin Guang, Hodur, Invidia, Demas, Evus, Tuatha De Danann, Mon Moko, Theia, Yambe Akka, Lei Chen Tzu, Varuna, Valkyrja, Ah Puch, Soko, Gede, Mama Oullo, Atum Ra, Andai, Chalchiuhtlicue, Ehi, Athene, Icovellauna, Apollon, Jarilo, Cabracan, Asshur, Cocijo, Ned Er Tcher, Yu Ch'iang, Sha Wu Ching, Legba, Ix Chel, Penie, Poros, Sito, Pan, Annona, Taru, Ahea, Mebere, Zakar, Ilaheua, Zhao Xuantan, Shou Lao, Milu, Mimi, Taoism, Fornax, Epimelides, Orixa, Eshu, Gondul, Achilles, Cetha, Kapoonis, Darana, Manes, Roonikka, Quetzalcoatl, Tezcatlipoca, Harensnuphis, Kotihaltia, Alklha, Anaitis, Herne, Tammuz, Wuraka, Sigu, Heimdallr, Vari, Sotuknang, Ankhe, Oya, Philomena, The Diablesse, Itaba, Tsilah, Ursule, Vierge, Yemaya , Zaka
Exactly.
Fairies, gods, witches, warlocks & Santa are all from the human imagination.
Theology = mythology

“Common sense prevails.”

Since: Mar 14

3rd rock from the sun.

#22105 Apr 23, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Not only do you have no answer, you are too dumb to provide a relevant question.
Nobody cares where George Washington was sitting when his wife was baptized. He could have been having an intestinal gas attack. Who knows? Who cares?
On the relationship of government and God, he made himself clear:
"While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian."
"The blessing and protection of Heaven are at all times necessary but especially so in times of public distress and danger. The General hopes and trusts that every officer and man will endeavor to live and act as becomes a Christian soldier, defending the dearest rights and liberties of his country".
-George Washington, The Writings of Washington, John C. Fitzpatrick, editor (Washington: Government Printing Office, 1932), Vol. XI, pp. 342-343, General Orders of May 2, 1778.
Well, you are right in one area....who cares? Maybe Washington was simply more interested in reality than baptism, or maybe he was only religious when he thought it was in his own best interests.

“The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion”
George Washington

"If they are good workmen, they may be of Asia, Africa, or Europe. They may be Mohometans, Jews or Christians of any Sect, or they may be Atheists."

George Washington

Do you think what George Washington thought then is of paramount importance today?
If so, play on. Your interest in quotes is basically irrelevant, but you seem to have plenty of time on your hands........
I can read

Edinburgh, UK

#22106 Apr 23, 2014
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
1. I am happy to learn about your excellent marks in your exams. But good marks in exams does not NECESSARILY mean that you got depth in studies. It only shows how much you remembered from the PRESCRIBED BOOKS.
2. Yes according to Islam, the first man was also the first prophet. So it was a degression from light to darkness.
I doubt your PRESCRIBED BOOKS in class would say that!
3. I am not saying MY religion is right, what I am saying that there is only one religion which all prophets preached.
All other religions (many of which we see before our eyes) are the distorted versions of the same old religion.
5. If you compare Islam with Santa Claus and other fairy tale stuff, then I doubt that those high marks in school exams did any thing good to your DEPTH of reason and logic.
Of course it's wrong to compare god to santa claus.

Santa claus really did exist.

“SATYAMEV JAYATE-TRUTH WINS ”

Since: Mar 14

JUBAIL, KSA

#22107 Apr 23, 2014
I can read wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course it's wrong to compare god to santa claus.
Santa claus really did exist.
Yeah I knew you would say that Santa Clause does exist, who else gives you those gifts at Christmas eve.... by the way, when did you check with a psychiatrist?

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