Atheism to Defeat Religion by 2038

Atheism to Defeat Religion by 2038

There are 24182 comments on the Psychology Today story from Apr 25, 2012, titled Atheism to Defeat Religion by 2038. In it, Psychology Today reports that:

My blog posts on religion have attracted a lot of controversy. Religious people are annoyed by my claim that belief in God will go the way of horse transportation, and for much the same reason, specifically an improved standard of living.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Psychology Today.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#22047 Apr 17, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
The American democracy is not founded on secular humanism. It is founded on the theistic idea that human rights derive from creation by God. This is no proof that the proposition is true, but the fact remains.
It's not a fact, Buck. There is no theistic idea of rights. And "God" is not mentioned in the founding documents - just a creator. My creator was the laws of nature acting most immediately through my parents.

Civil rights and political freedoms were consistent with Enlightenment ideals, not any holy book or church. Jefferson's lip service in the Declaration to a creator endowing those rights and was irrelevant except possibly to assuage theists concerned about the legitimacy of rights not granted by a king.

Freedom and democracy have nothing to do with Christian dogma. The Christian god doesn't share power, take surveys, or hold elections. He's authoritarian, and his agents on earth are divinely chosen monarchs.

The following is from the Affirmations of Humanism. Can you present us with anything analogous from this "God" or its bible?

"We believe in an open and pluralistic society and that democracy is the best guarantee of protecting human rights from authoritarian elites and repressive majorities."

Here's what the bible says about democracy:

"Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient" - Titus 3:1

"Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God" - Romans 13:1

======

Is it helpful for you to keep making that claim knowing that it will likely elicit this response? Is that a net gain for your position?

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Since: May 10

Location hidden

#22048 Apr 17, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not a fact, Buck. There is no theistic idea of rights. And "God" is not mentioned in the founding documents - just a creator. My creator was the laws of nature acting most immediately through my parents.
Civil rights and political freedoms were consistent with Enlightenment ideals, not any holy book or church. Jefferson's lip service in the Declaration to a creator endowing those rights and was irrelevant except possibly to assuage theists concerned about the legitimacy of rights not granted by a king.
Freedom and democracy have nothing to do with Christian dogma. The Christian god doesn't share power, take surveys, or hold elections. He's authoritarian, and his agents on earth are divinely chosen monarchs.
The following is from the Affirmations of Humanism. Can you present us with anything analogous from this "God" or its bible?
"We believe in an open and pluralistic society and that democracy is the best guarantee of protecting human rights from authoritarian elites and repressive majorities."
Here's what the bible says about democracy:
"Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient" - Titus 3:1
"Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God" - Romans 13:1
======
Is it helpful for you to keep making that claim knowing that it will likely elicit this response? Is that a net gain for your position?
No gain is needed for my position, as it is provably the correct one, from the black ink on parchment outlining the principles for the formation of a new nation.

"...to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them,..."

They left no wiggle room here. They asserted that Nature's god entitles citizens to their station, it being one of equality. This is not in the least ambiguous.

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Since: May 10

Location hidden

#22049 Apr 17, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
No gain is needed for my position, as it is provably the correct one, from the black ink on parchment outlining the principles for the formation of a new nation.
"...to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them,..."
They left no wiggle room here. They asserted that Nature's god entitles citizens to their station, it being one of equality. This is not in the least ambiguous.
"The right to freedom being the gift of God Almighty, it is not in the power of man to alienate this gift and voluntarily become a slave".

"In the state of nature, every man is under God, Judge and sole Judge, of his own rights and the injuries done him: By entering into society, he agrees to an Arbiter or indifferent Judge between him and his neighbours; but he no more renounces his original right, than by taking a cause out of the ordinary course of law, and leaving the decision to Referees or indifferent Arbitrations. "

-Samuel Adams

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EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#22050 Apr 17, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
"The right to freedom being the gift of God Almighty, it is not in the power of man to alienate this gift and voluntarily become a slave".
"In the state of nature, every man is under God, Judge and sole Judge, of his own rights and the injuries done him: By entering into society, he agrees to an Arbiter or indifferent Judge between him and his neighbours; but he no more renounces his original right, than by taking a cause out of the ordinary course of law, and leaving the decision to Referees or indifferent Arbitrations. "
-Samuel Adams
1772.
Another example of religious thinking hindering progress and understanding.

Religion = superstition
Theology = mythology
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#22051 Apr 17, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
"The right to freedom being the gift of God Almighty, it is not in the power of man to alienate this gift and voluntarily become a slave".
"In the state of nature, every man is under God, Judge and sole Judge, of his own rights and the injuries done him: By entering into society, he agrees to an Arbiter or indifferent Judge between him and his neighbours; but he no more renounces his original right, than by taking a cause out of the ordinary course of law, and leaving the decision to Referees or indifferent Arbitrations. "
-Samuel Adams
He said that in 1772!
Nowadays its another example of religious thinking impeding progress and understanding.

Religion is just superstition
Theology is just mythology

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#22052 Apr 17, 2014
EdSed wrote:
<quoted text>He said that in 1772!
Nowadays its another example of religious thinking impeding progress and understanding.
Religion is just superstition
Theology is just mythology
He can't say it today. He's dead.

Lucky for us he wrote it down, huh?

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“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#22053 Apr 17, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
No gain is needed for my position, as it is provably the correct one, from the black ink on parchment outlining the principles for the formation of a new nation.
"...to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them,..." They left no wiggle room here. They asserted that Nature's god entitles citizens to their station, it being one of equality. This is not in the least ambiguous.
The ink on the parchment doesn't establish that the ideas were the product of any theistic tradition. I'm not aware of any evidence that the author of those words didn't invent that idea the day he wrote them.

You would not have the rights you have without the ideas and energy of Enlightenment thinkers. Or do you think it a coincidence that during the Age of Faith that governments were theocratic monarchies operating under the theory of the divine right of kings, but that with the Age of Reason came the American Constitution with its secular government and personal political rights and freedoms? Where was theism and the rights you allege sprang from it for all of those centuries during the Middle Ages?

Christianity is the enemy of democracy, freedom and rights. There is no concept of freedom or rights in its bible, just commandments and threats. Christian ethics do not value autonomy or self-actualization. It's all about submission: meekness, submission, breaking the ego, obedience, obeisance, and worship. Where humanism advocate freedom from religion and the dignity of humanity, Christianity commands us to worship its god and only its god. It continually reminds us of our dependence, our fallen nature, and our inability to self-govern.

Christianity is still reeling over free will, the exercise of which we are told will result in severe punishment.

Sorry, Buck, but you have no argument here, just a claim based on a few words written for effect. Had it been deemed acceptable to late eighteenth century sensibilities to say that man gave himself those rights, it would have said that. Had it been most useful to say that those rights came from Cthulhu, it would have said that.

The church and the theistic tradition deserve zero credit for such great concepts as democracy, civil rights, and personal political freedom, all of which are exquisitely sensitive to church-state separation, another gift of secular humanism.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#22054 Apr 17, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
"The right to freedom being the gift of God Almighty, it is not in the power of man to alienate this gift and voluntarily become a slave". "In the state of nature, every man is under God, Judge and sole Judge, of his own rights and the injuries done him: By entering into society, he agrees to an Arbiter or indifferent Judge between him and his neighbours; but he no more renounces his original right, than by taking a cause out of the ordinary course of law, and leaving the decision to Referees or indifferent Arbitrations. " -Samuel Adams
Where did Adams get those ideas? His bible? Hardly.

Where is the evidence that anybody believed such things before the Enlightenment and minds like Locke, Montesquieu, Rousseau, and Voltaire?

Giving lip service to some god that did nothing to secure those rights means nothing.
MUQ1

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#22055 Apr 18, 2014
[QUOTE who=Aint"]

1.

01. Is Communism your best argument to preserve your parasitic faith? Communism is just another problem like Islam and Christianity.

02. And there has never been a government based on atheism. Atheism isn't an ideology. Marxism is, as are Leninism, Christianity, Stalinism, Islam, and Maoism.

03. My ideology is secular humanism, upon which the great Western liberal democracies are founded, and from which all progress in the human condition comes. Your country is a theocracy. Nothing of value has ever come from it. You'd still be lepers living in tents without Western technology.

[/QUOTE]

Ans.

01. In my knowledge Communism was the ONLY system that was based on Athiesm. It wanted to remove religion from its lands, and it took that to the extreme. It had economic policies too that also went to the extreme.

And it failed to achieve any of its aim. It was unable to remove religion from its lands and minds of its people, who never abandoned their religion.

02. Yes Athiesm is only based on negation, how can you build any civilization which has nothing positive in it.

03. Are you coining a new term "Secular Humanism"?

I am unawre of any of these terms. The term itself is not known to people.

What is Secularism and what is Humanism and what it has to do with Athiesm?

So called progress of Western Nations is what was built by people who believed in religion , but these so called Athiests now claim that it was they who built all this, in reality they did not do any thing, they are just like parasites piggy backing on people who are believers in religion.

This is temporary phase and would vanish like so many isms that were before it.

Only religion and only Islam would be left in the end. That is what is its destiny.!!
MUQ1

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

#22056 Apr 18, 2014
FS wrote:
And do you know suicide bombing also counts as suicide?Is suicide in craving of 72 virgins acceptable?

Doesn't it has been indoctrinated to you that death is more beautiful than life as death supposedly leads to the pleasure and debauchery offered in a non-existent Heaven?

OH MUQ! why this double standard?I have read Quran and it does say "Love death more than life"
How positive it is!
Ans.

01. Suicide and Suicide Bombing is not allowed in Islam.

To kill one' own self or to kill knowingly any innocent human being whether Muslim or Non Muslim is not allowed in Islam.

In rarest of the rare cases, in theaters of war, using this technique to cause maximum harm to enemy forces is what many Islamic Scholars approve of. But that is totally different scenario and totally different topic than what you are saying.

I am not aware of Quranic verse that says "They love death more than life"… Can you provide reference?.

Since: Mar 12

Mumbai, India

#22057 Apr 18, 2014
MUQ1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
01. Suicide and Suicide Bombing is not allowed in Islam.
To kill one' own self or to kill knowingly any innocent human being whether Muslim or Non Muslim is not allowed in Islam.
In rarest of the rare cases, in theaters of war, using this technique to cause maximum harm to enemy forces is what many Islamic Scholars approve of. But that is totally different scenario and totally different topic than what you are saying.
I am not aware of Quranic verse that says "They love death more than life"… Can you provide reference?.
“Say (O Muhammad): O ye who are Jews! If ye claim that ye are favoured of Allah apart from (all) mankind, then long for death if ye are truthful.”— Qur’an 62:6

Since: Dec 06

Charlie's

#22058 Apr 18, 2014
MUQ1 wrote:
Only religion and only Islam would be left in the end. That is what is its destiny.!!
Funny, the communists were also sure that communism was to be the destiny ogf mankind.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#22059 Apr 18, 2014
EdSed wrote:
Not that nations are built on ideologies, by the way. They may be afflicted by an ideology, the way Pakistan suffers from Islamism, but other than that nations weren't founded by religions. Religions are man made and part of early culture.

Obvious and common sense stuff.
Only obvious if you are paying attention... and still capable of thought.

:D

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#22060 Apr 18, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Two words, dude: suicide bomber.
That's what happens when you have religion and hope of a future life - with 72 virgins.
I've got a joke I think you'll like:
Two Saudi mothers are sitting in a cafe chatting over a plate of tabouli and a pint of goat's milk. The older of the two pulls a bag out of her purse and starts flipping through photos. They start reminiscing.“This is my oldest son, Mujibar. He would have been 24 years old now.”
“Yes, I remember him as a baby” says the other mother cheerfully.
"He's a martyr now though" the first mother confides.
"Oh, so sad dear” says the other.
“And this is my second son, Khalid. He would have been 21.”
“Oh, I remember him,” says the other happily.”He had such curly hair when he was born.”
“He's a martyr too” says the first mother quietly.
“Oh, gracious me ...” says the other.
“And this is my third son. My baby. My beautiful Ahmed. He would have been 18”, she whispers.
"Yes" says the friend enthusiastically.”I remember when he first started school”
“He's a martyr also,” says the first mother, with tears in her eyes.
After a pause and a deep sigh, the second Muslim mother looks wistfully at the photographs and, searching for the right words, says, "They blow up so fast, dear, don't they?"
LMO!

Your humor points directly to the heart of why islam is basically ... evil.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#22061 Apr 18, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Funny, since that's not in the Constitution. It's not even in the Declaration of Independance.
Besides which, rights have little meaning under a theocracy, whose beneficients are at the whim of the deity, and-or those who claim to speak for it. That's why all the fundies tell us to worship (our way) or burn.
Indeed.

And in The Buckster's fantasy-world, he is a King too.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#22062 Apr 18, 2014
EdSed wrote:
Another one of Buck's "facts" (i.e. gibberish):<quoted text>Lol!
I reject the view that a humanistic society has any ideology. I think it more accurate and helpful to say that an inclusive, democratic society accepts certain secular and humanist principles such as one law for all (instead of religious courts); freedom of speech and expression; separation of Church and state; freedom of and from religion; an independent media; separation of powers, executive, legislative and judicial; freedom of association; and protection of minority rights. These have been discovered and developed by human societies since what Western histories often describe as the early modern period.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_modern_per...
There are other helpful developments such as scientific method.
none of that has anything to do with religion or theology which have only hampered progress as (for example) the Pope's attitude to Galileo illustrates.
Religion = superstition
Earlier societies were superstitious and religion is the last bastion of superstition.
Yep.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#22063 Apr 18, 2014
DonPanic wrote:
<quoted text>
Funny, the communists were also sure that communism was to be the destiny ogf mankind.
Indeed.... ideological robots often get that wrong.
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#22064 Apr 18, 2014
MUQ1 wrote:
<quoted text>
...Suicide and Suicide Bombing is not allowed in Islam...
Lol!
Shows what a pile of useless, irrelevant gibberish Islam is then.

Religion = superstition

Islam doesn't sanction the violence Islamists commit but many Imams do. It took until 2008 for a British Imam to clearly condemn 7/7. Most suicide attacks these days are by Muslims and they say Jihad (i.e. crusade) and Islam motivates them.

You should now unreservedly condemn the shooting of Malala Yousefzai if you are an innocent Muslim and don't support violent Islamism.

Religion = superstition
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#22065 Apr 18, 2014
Not if programmed correctly
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Indeed.... ideological robots often get that wrong.
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/life-style/ar...
:-)

'Give me a boy under 7.....'
Religionists need to get them while they're young.

Theology = mythology
idiot savant

UK

#22066 Apr 18, 2014
I think you should all bow before your Keplarian Overlords!

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