Patience with God

Mar 14, 2011 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Financial Times

Patience with God: For People Who Don't Like Religion , by Frank Schaeffer, Da Capo, RRPA 9.99, 256 pages If you want to infuriate the so-called "new atheists", taunt them with this quote from a Dostoevsky novel: "If God does not exist then everything would be permitted." Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens vehemently denounced this sentence ...

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nina

Ottawa, Canada

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#1
Mar 16, 2011
 
that is not an infuriating statement, it's a sad and pathetic claim with no basis whatsoever

it basically infantalizes humans and reflects a deep self loathing and no self esteem on the part of the claimant

we are capable of determining what's acceptable or not on our own

and every civilization has done so - and so does every human

including beleivers who simply position the "authority" for their behaviour code as being external to themselves, citing "tradition", "cultural norms" or whatver "god" is supposed to be

anyone who is not able to be in a situation or consider a hypothetical situation and make a determination of what the best and worst courses of action/response are

are admitting that they are not moral or ethical

so, how exactly are they in a position to consider an external source for a behaviour code and know that it is moral or ethical?

following a list of rules to obtain reward or avoid punishment is no more advanced than a single cell organism responding to stimulus
nina

Ottawa, Canada

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#2
Mar 16, 2011
 
of course conservatives hate the idea that one religion is as good or bad as any other

truth is unpleasant

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

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#3
Mar 16, 2011
 

Judged:

1

Hearing "If God does not exist then everything would be permitted." from a theist just makes me want to roll my eyes and wonder just how lame is their sense of morality. Is their personal morality SO BAD that they can only behave with the threat of divine retribution.

And I agree nina. The whole world is a counter example to their claim. The vast majority of people do not go on a psychopathic rampage even though they are not part of the Christian religion. Most atheists I know follow, more or less, a humanistic philosophy and treat their fellow man with kindness and respect.
nina

Ottawa, Canada

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#4
Mar 16, 2011
 
heck - look at Japan

earthquake, tsunami and now a nuclear metldown

yet, no looting, just orderly lining up all on their own - no police or hall monitors enforcing calm

everyone is sharing food and water, even if not having enough is needed to make sure everyone gets something

that's how a secular society works - everyone pitching in to get the most people through the disaster event

unlike the xtians who survive a disaster, often at the expense of others, and proclaim that their god saved them while allowing so many others to die

as for the 180 people who are in the reactor trying to prevent a meltdown,the word hero doesn't begin to describe them

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Sevierville, TN

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#5
Mar 17, 2011
 
The statement reflects the Christian view of humanity as depraved and debased. I see humanity as intelligent, empathetic, caring, and potentially noble and heroic.

Bad behavior makes headlines, making it seem much more prevalent than it really is. By looking at life around us, we can see the larger picture even if it is in smaller scope.

Think about it. How many of the people with whom you are acquainted deliberately harm others? How many more lend help when needed? Do the people around you reflect the Christian view that people are inherently evil? those around me do not.

“Jesus forgives..... ”

Since: May 08

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#6
Mar 20, 2011
 
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
Hearing "If God does not exist then everything would be permitted." from a theist just makes me want to roll my eyes and wonder just how lame is their sense of morality. Is their personal morality SO BAD that they can only behave with the threat of divine retribution.
And I agree nina. The whole world is a counter example to their claim. The vast majority of people do not go on a psychopathic rampage even though they are not part of the Christian religion. Most atheists I know follow, more or less, a humanistic philosophy and treat their fellow man with kindness and respect.
Some humans are naturally cruel too!!

“Jesus forgives..... ”

Since: May 08

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#7
Mar 20, 2011
 

Judged:

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nina wrote:
heck - look at Japan
earthquake, tsunami and now a nuclear metldown
yet, no looting, just orderly lining up all on their own - no police or hall monitors enforcing calm
everyone is sharing food and water, even if not having enough is needed to make sure everyone gets something
that's how a secular society works - everyone pitching in to get the most people through the disaster event
unlike the xtians who survive a disaster, often at the expense of others, and proclaim that their god saved them while allowing so many others to die
as for the 180 people who are in the reactor trying to prevent a meltdown,the word hero doesn't begin to describe them
Japan should have chosen without a nuclear but they insist so they deserve it.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

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#8
Mar 20, 2011
 
Divine Alien wrote:
<quoted text>Japan should have chosen without a nuclear but they insist so they deserve it.
And you are an excellent example of why christianity is a sick belief system.

Nobody "deserves it."
Just Steve

Lakewood, OH

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#9
Mar 20, 2011
 
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
And you are an excellent example of why christianity is a sick belief system.
Nobody "deserves it."
Ever notice how retribution is foremost in the christian mindset? A very hostile belief system at best.
redneck

Myrtle Creek, OR

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#10
Mar 20, 2011
 
Divine Alien wrote:
<quoted text>Japan should have chosen without a nuclear but they insist so they deserve it.
DA is back and casting judgement and proclaiming 'gods' will. You 'deserve' to be a xtian. It will make you miserable.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#11
Mar 20, 2011
 
Divine Alien wrote:
<quoted text>Some humans are naturally cruel too!!
Bragging again?
nina

Ottawa, Canada

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#12
Mar 21, 2011
 
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
And you are an excellent example of why christianity is a sick belief system.
Nobody "deserves it."
not to mention the DA is an excellent example of how christians are not only devoid of any empathy/compassion

but completely divorced from reality

“Jesus forgives..... ”

Since: May 08

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#13
Mar 26, 2011
 
redneck wrote:
<quoted text>DA is back and casting judgement and proclaiming 'gods' will. You 'deserve' to be a xtian. It will make you miserable.
Humans are creating nuclear for their own destruction!!!!As time goes by, more nuclear will be made and soon more place become dangerous to live in. Humans are stupid to resort to dangerous energy for cheap energy at the expense of their safety....silly!!!

“Jesus forgives..... ”

Since: May 08

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#14
Mar 26, 2011
 
nina wrote:
<quoted text>
not to mention the DA is an excellent example of how christians are not only devoid of any empathy/compassion
but completely divorced from reality
Huh! You may continue to make bombs for your own/other destruction in future he he he he......just look at Japan or Chernobyl...how they suffer for their stupidity of using nuclear.

“Jesus forgives..... ”

Since: May 08

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#15
Mar 26, 2011
 
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Bragging again?
Yep...those who made nuclear in Japan are stupid!!!..Now they have to put it down from further destroying the japanese slowly.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#16
Mar 26, 2011
 
Divine Alien wrote:
<quoted text>Yep...those who made nuclear in Japan are stupid!!!..Now they have to put it down from further destroying the japanese slowly.
Your hate-speech is noted.
redneck

Cave Junction, OR

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#17
Mar 27, 2011
 
Divine Alien wrote:
<quoted text>Huh! You may continue to make bombs for your own/other destruction in future he he he he......just look at Japan or Chernobyl...how they suffer for their stupidity of using nuclear.
God really hates Indonesia most. They get the next big one.
agnostic

New Tazewell, TN

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#18
Mar 27, 2011
 
Divine Alien wrote:
<quoted text>Japan should have chosen without a nuclear but they insist so they deserve it.
Where do you live? In the US? We have nuclear plants here too - are YOU going to "deserve" it if we have a similar situation?
nina

Ottawa, Canada

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#19
Mar 28, 2011
 
Divine Alien wrote:
<quoted text>Huh! You may continue to make bombs for your own/other destruction in future he he he he......just look at Japan or Chernobyl...how they suffer for their stupidity of using nuclear.
Given that the only reason that there's a concern with this plant is an earthquake and not design or human error

the only stupid thing is you thinking you understand anything at all

nuclear energy is far safer for humans and the environment than other forms of energy

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