Atheism Destroyed in Under 50 Seconds

Since: Mar 11

Ft Mitchell, KY

#23 Jun 26, 2012
The feeble attempts in the video and people who flail about with such nonsense is what I was responding to. Agnostic Atheists are what most of us would probably classify ourselves as should we chose to. Certainly if one was to lay out a case showing facts for and against God the facts against would be huge. Such a case would be pointless as the burden of proof lies with the positive of something existing not the negative of it not existing. The proponents of God certainly have failed miserably to provide any proof at all.
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> were you replying to someone in particular, or to a series of arguments, or the original heading? glad to see you here, getting to know you a bit better.

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#24 Jun 27, 2012
Gabrian wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =XEl87kY7SnEXX
Yet another video debunking atheism and no this isn't that video created by
…
Deleted for topix space restrictions – see post 1 for full text
…
Atheism isn't a logical theory however you look at it. It's more ludicrous than Scientology.
OK what follows is fact and researchable by anyone with an internet connection so forget youtube and lets looks at a brief history of modern Christianity and you can examine the logic behind it for yourself.

Gods were created by man as a way to help understand what was then not understandable.

Time seriously passed

Some 35,000 (or more) years later a somewhat delusional pharaoh had a whim and set up a ‘let’s all worship the sun’ religion with himself as the only being through whom anyone can worship.

He was discredited but unfortunately a bunch of slaves got hold of his religion and added stores to help alleviate their suffering. Over time the stories expanded and new ones were added, the result was the Tanakh, much of which has been cloned to create the Old Testament

Corresponding with the last of the Tanakh stories Rome invaded parts of the middle east. Several organisations were set up in opposition to the occupation, not least of which was a band of terrorists called the fourth philosophy. One of that group, Judas of the Scatari, also know as Judas of Galilee, the illegitimate child of a Hebrew girl named Mary who was raped by a roman soldier of Greek descent named Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera. Judas was captured and tried for terrorist crimes and murder and sentenced to crucifixion. The guard at his execution was bribed and his followers released him. He was seen around for a few weeks before succumbing to the blood poisoning the nails of his crucifixion had caused.

He became the rallying cry and posthumous leader of the fourth philosophy, The emperor Titus and the historian Josephus hatched a plot including one Saulus (now known as St Paul) to discredit Judas and the fourth philosophy. A little tinkering with his name converted Scatari to Iscariot and thus he became the man who betrayed himself.

Only later as this story was being translated into Greek did an error in translation create the name Jesus of Galilee

Some 150 to 400 years later various carefully selected stories were assembled by committee. Over the next 1000 years or so many copies, often conflicting were created until in the early 1600s King James decided to create a new definitive bible. Another committee was assembled and the works of the various bibles combined using a set of 15 arbitrary rules, which meant best guess was good enough to create the KJV. Over the years since then there have appeared many, often contradicting babbles used as required to suite their own particular brand of belief by the 38000 different sects of christianity.

-

What is it that us said about anything designed by committee? The christian babble has been through that process twice.

Note that the Josephus work the Testimonium Flavianum that contains his only reference to Jesus is contested in many quarters as being a later addition. It is presumed to be the work of the monk Eusibus who does have a reputation for tempering with documents to suite his sensibilities (very christian)

See the The Roman Archives
The Tanakh
The Testimonium Flavianum

And the academically acclaimed books
Pantera - Sara Reinke
James, the brother of Christ - Robert Eisenman
The Mythmaker - Hyam Maccobys
Judas the Galilean: the flesh and blood Jesus - Danial Underbank
Jesus the Terrorist - Paul Cresswell

--

However if you are actually interested in educating yourself try educating yourself and not hanging onto youtube videos. I suggest the perimeter institute theoretical physics or CERN if you want to try learning something about string theory or other theories of the creation of the universe, not an entertainment site.

Since: Mar 11

Ft Mitchell, KY

#25 Jun 27, 2012
Very well said!
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
OK what follows is fact and researchable by anyone with an internet connection so forget youtube and lets looks at a brief history of modern Christianity and you can examine the logic behind it for yourself.
Gods were created by man as a way to help understand what was then not understandable.
Time seriously passed
Some 35,000 (or more) years later a somewhat delusional pharaoh had a whim and set up a ‘let’s all worship the sun’ religion with himself as the only being through whom anyone can worship.
He was discredited but unfortunately a bunch of slaves got hold of his religion and added stores to help alleviate their suffering. Over time the stories expanded and new ones were added, the result was the Tanakh, much of which has been cloned to create the Old Testament
Corresponding with the last of the Tanakh stories Rome invaded parts of the middle east. Several organisations were set up in opposition to the occupation, not least of which was a band of terrorists called the fourth philosophy. One of that group, Judas of the Scatari, also know as Judas of Galilee, the illegitimate child of a Hebrew girl named Mary who was raped by a roman soldier of Greek descent named Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera. Judas was captured and tried for terrorist crimes and murder and sentenced to crucifixion. The guard at his execution was bribed and his followers released him. He was seen around for a few weeks before succumbing to the blood poisoning the nails of his crucifixion had caused.
He became the rallying cry and posthumous leader of the fourth philosophy, The emperor Titus and the historian Josephus hatched a plot including one Saulus (now known as St Paul) to discredit Judas and the fourth philosophy. A little tinkering with his name converted Scatari to Iscariot and thus he became the man who betrayed himself.
Only later as this story was being translated into Greek did an error in translation create the name Jesus of Galilee
Some 150 to 400 years later various carefully selected stories were assembled by committee. Over the next 1000 years or so many copies, often conflicting were created until in the early 1600s King James decided to create a new definitive bible. Another committee was assembled and the works of the various bibles combined using a set of 15 arbitrary rules, which meant best guess was good enough to create the KJV. Over the years since then there have appeared many, often contradicting babbles used as required to suite their own particular brand of belief by the 38000 different sects of christianity.
-
What is it that us said about anything designed by committee? The christian babble has been through that process twice.
Note that the Josephus work the Testimonium Flavianum that contains his only reference to Jesus is contested in many quarters as being a later addition. It is presumed to be the work of the monk Eusibus who does have a reputation for tempering with documents to suite his sensibilities (very christian)
See the The Roman Archives
The Tanakh
The Testimonium Flavianum
And the academically acclaimed books
Pantera - Sara Reinke
James, the brother of Christ - Robert Eisenman
The Mythmaker - Hyam Maccobys
Judas the Galilean: the flesh and blood Jesus - Danial Underbank
Jesus the Terrorist - Paul Cresswell
--
However if you are actually interested in educating yourself try educating yourself and not hanging onto youtube videos. I suggest the perimeter institute theoretical physics or CERN if you want to try learning something about string theory or other theories of the creation of the universe, not an entertainment site.

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#26 Jun 27, 2012
Givemeliberty wrote:
Very well said!
<quoted text>
Thanks, appreciated.
Amused

Lowell, MA

#27 Jun 27, 2012
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> Very rational. I do prefer the cautious terms such as highly improbable.
Do you accept the distinction between hard atheist ( making a claim to know there is no God) and agnostic atheist (not making a knowledge claim and also not believing)? If so, do you describe yourself as being firmly one or the other?
I am an agnostic atheist about all possible definitions of God that I know of, except that I am a hard atheist on one thing - that there could not be an allpowerful, allknowing, creator god, creator of the laws of nature, intentinal being, intervener in events, that is also all good. I could imagine one that is more evil than good, or half and half, to be generous! but never one that is all good, plus those other characteristics. Pain and suffering make that an impossibility, in my view.
I think it is not possible to conclusively disprove an unfalsifiable idea, or to prove a negative. The best you can do is reach the point where the probability that the idea is true is so small that it can be dismissed and need be given no further consideration. Can I conclusively prove that the universe is not some molecule on the thumbnail of some gigantic being? No. Can I say that it is very improbable? Most definitely. So, wherever that puts me on some 'hard atheist' vs.'agnostic atheist' spectrum.

Since: Jun 12

London, UK

#28 Jun 27, 2012
Givemeliberty wrote:
Let me just go ahead and save everyone's time. It's the tired old the universe has order and a beginning. Only a creator could create such as this because something can't come from nothing. Well except God because he is timeless and came from nothing. I busted out laughing so hard when it gets to that part. Everything must have had a creator well except God naturally.
And this is debunked how? You disagree but present no evidence against it. This is why atheism has no legs to stand upon. What's the alternative? Infinite universes? You do know that the string-universe idea has been debunked by the BGV theorem right? The BGV theorem also proves the universe had a beginning and wasn't eternal.

Once again, the atheists remain clueless about science. I'm not even going to bother reading anymore of your baseless assumptions.
England 2012

Uttoxeter, UK

#29 Jun 27, 2012
As stated no one can prove there is no god, but science can prove that there is no evidence of the supernatural in the creation of this planet, which pretty much destroys the whole point of god, I'm not bothering to comment on the afterlife, heaven & Hell nonsense, but if no evidence of a god exists in the evolution of this planet,why would those supernatural realms exist either,it was all a myth created by human beings to try and explain what was then the unexplainable,

Since: Mar 11

United States

#30 Jun 27, 2012
My pleasure free thinkers should be encouraged.
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks, appreciated.
redneck

Glendale, OR

#31 Jun 27, 2012
Gabrian wrote:
<quoted text>
And this is debunked how? You disagree but present no evidence against it. This is why atheism has no legs to stand upon. What's the alternative? Infinite universes? You do know that the string-universe idea has been debunked by the BGV theorem right? The BGV theorem also proves the universe had a beginning and wasn't eternal.
Once again, the atheists remain clueless about science. I'm not even going to bother reading anymore of your baseless assumptions.
Carl Sagan was a great scientist and an atheist, like so many scientists. You should read his story. The Dragon in My Garage.

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#32 Jun 27, 2012
Gabrian wrote:
<quoted text>
And this is debunked how? You disagree but present no evidence against it. This is why atheism has no legs to stand upon. What's the alternative? Infinite universes? You do know that the string-universe idea has been debunked by the BGV theorem right? The BGV theorem also proves the universe had a beginning and wasn't eternal.
Once again, the atheists remain clueless about science. I'm not even going to bother reading anymore of your baseless assumptions.
I have given you the legs (well at least one of them) above in post 24.

The superstring idea has not been debunked but there are some fundy moronic websites that offer some mumbo jumbo pseudo science as counter evidence (LOL) if you can call blog style websites with no verification counter.

The work of Dr Laura Mersini-Hougton and others not only offers an explanation for the universe being created from strings but also give valid reasons for ‘all’ the oddities that have plagued science for years. Oddities such as on tiny section of the universe going in the opposite direction to the rest and the discrepancy in size of the universe compared to estimates taken from red shift measurements etc.

Some other theories are swiss cheese, branes, parallel, multi, recycling to name but a few. The thing is, these are modern and current theories that each have valid possibilities given current knowledge, unlike the bronze age thinking of the creationists. I suggest you take a look at the perimeter institute for theoretical physics website if you want to talk with any authority about what you are currently completely clueless about.

The scientists there are the worlds leading thinkers on the creation of the universe and can offer one certainty and one high probability.

The certainty - It was not done by magic
The probability – no god did it

Here’s is the other leg, Those scientist do not know what created the universe, I don’t know, you don’t know, no one knows and anything you make claim to before 10^-34th of a second prior to the event that created this universe is pure guesswork.

Since: Mar 11

Ft Mitchell, KY

#33 Jun 27, 2012
It's debunked out of the gate because it provides zero proof for God. At best all you are doing is disagreeing with various scientific hypothesis. All of those are far more likely then some mystical man danced around creating everything.

Let me state again even if someone came along and disproved each and every current scientific theory be it gravity, earth going around the sun ect it still wouldn't prove a God.

You want to prove God? Why not pray that he show up as he did supposedly during ancient times do a few miracles, explain a few things and be on his way? Why could he do it then to mostly illiterate desert people but is shy now? Your arguments are about as reliable as a child saying elves ate the candy in the kitchen and vanished when the parents walked in. When the parents call the child out the child responds oh ya, prove it! Hmmmm in that regard God is much like snuffleupagus from sesame street lmfao.
Gabrian wrote:
<quoted text>
And this is debunked how? You disagree but present no evidence against it. This is why atheism has no legs to stand upon. What's the alternative? Infinite universes? You do know that the string-universe idea has been debunked by the BGV theorem right? The BGV theorem also proves the universe had a beginning and wasn't eternal.
Once again, the atheists remain clueless about science. I'm not even going to bother reading anymore of your baseless assumptions.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#34 Jun 27, 2012
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks, appreciated.
Nice , but your time factor is off by a magnitude of ten.

Since: Mar 11

United States

#35 Jun 27, 2012
Theists makes an ass out of themselves in under 50 seconds. There title of the thread fixed.

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#36 Jun 28, 2012
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Nice , but your time factor is off by a magnitude of ten.
HI Aura, good to see you on this thread

Which time factor? 35000 years (or more)?

I know some gods of the Indian subcontinent have been worshipped for 10,000+ years and I’ve seen evidence of altar worship dating back 38,000 years. After that I am not personally sure so I slipped in the ‘or more’

I have seen documentaries of African ritual burying dating back over 150000 years, but I don’t remember any mention of worship or gods. That is not to say that gods weren’t worshipped then, and the fact that the interment was ritual points to some sort of deity worship, It’s just that I don’t know. Can you offer link(s)?

The other stuff from Akhenaten to King James is accurate enough time wise for this thread so

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#37 Jun 28, 2012
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
HI Aura, good to see you on this thread
Which time factor? 35000 years (or more)?
I know some gods of the Indian subcontinent have been worshipped for 10,000+ years and I’ve seen evidence of altar worship dating back 38,000 years. After that I am not personally sure so I slipped in the ‘or more’
I have seen documentaries of African ritual burying dating back over 150000 years, but I don’t remember any mention of worship or gods. That is not to say that gods weren’t worshipped then, and the fact that the interment was ritual points to some sort of deity worship, It’s just that I don’t know. Can you offer link(s)?
The other stuff from Akhenaten to King James is accurate enough time wise for this thread so
n/m I misread your synopsis , it does appear the concept of gods evolved as much as man himself did. But to be really honest it doesn't look like the concept of gods really caught on till civilization took hold. It's hard to imagine what beliefs hunter gatherers may have held. But it seems animalism may have been the predecessor to belief in gods.

Since: Mar 11

Ft Mitchell, KY

#38 Jun 28, 2012
223,000 - 100,000 BCE The earliest evidence of Hominids, such as Neanderthals and even Homo heidelbergensis, deliberately disposing of deceased individuals usually in funerary caches.
40,000 BCE One of the earliest Anatomically modern humans to be cremated is buried near Lake Mungo.
100th to 34th century BCE
9831 The Neolithic Revolution begins and results in a worldwide population explosion. The first cities, states, kingdoms, and organized religions begin to emerge. The early states were usually theocracies, in which the political power is justified by religious prestige. 9130 - 7370 BCE The apparent lifespan of Göbekli Tepe, the oldest human-made place of worship yet discovered.[11] 8000 BCE Four to five pine posts are erected near the eventual site of Stonehenge. 7500 - 5700 BCE The settlements of Catalhoyuk develop as a likely spiritual center of Anatolia. Possibly practicing worship in communal shrines, its inhabitants leave behind numerous clay figurines and impressions of phallic, feminine, and hunting scenes. 5500 - 4500 BCE The Proto-Indo-Europeans (PIE) emerged, probably within the Pontic-Caspian steppe (though their exact urheimat is debated). The PIE peoples developed a religion focused on sacrificial ideology, which would influence the religions of the descendent Indo-European cultures throughout Europe, Anatolia, and the Indian sub-continent.~3750 BCE The Proto-Semitic peoples emerged with a generally accepted urheimat in the Arabian peninsula. The Proto-Semitic peoples would migrate throughout the Near East into Mesopotamia, Egypt, Ethiopia, and the eastern shore of the Mediterranean. Their religion would influence their descendant cultures and faiths, including the Abrahamic religions.

Since: Mar 11

Ft Mitchell, KY

#39 Jun 28, 2012
33rd to 12th century BCE
3228 - 3102 BCE Traditionally accepted time of Krishna's life on Earth.[12][13][14][15][16][17] 3100 BCE The initial form of Stonehenge is completed. The circular bank and ditch enclosure, about 110 metres (360 ft) across, may be complete with a timber circle. 3100 - 2900 BCE Newgrange, the 250,000 ton (226,796.2 tonne) passage tomb aligned to the winter solstice in Ireland, is built.[18] 3000 BCE Sumerian Cuneiform emerges from the proto-literate Uruk period, allowing the codification of beliefs and creation of detailed historical religious records. The second phase of Stonehenge is completed and appears to function as the first enclosed cremation cemetery in the British Isles. 2635 - 2610 BCE The oldest surviving Egyptian Pyramid is commissioned by pharaoh Djoser. 2600 BCE Stonehenge begins to take on the form of its final phase. The wooden posts are replaced with that of bluestone. It begins taking on an increasingly complex setup—including altar, portal, station stones, etc.—and shows consideration of solar alignments. 2560 BCE The approximate time accepted as the completion of the Great Pyramid of Giza, the oldest pyramid of the Giza Plateau. 2494 - 2345 BCE The first of the oldest surviving religious texts, the Pyramid Texts, are composed in Ancient Egypt. 2348 BCE Noah's Ark and the Great Flood that wiped out all previous civilizations according to the Ussher chronology. 2200 BCE Minoan Civilization in Crete develops. Citizens worship a variety of Goddesses. 2150 - 2000 BCE The earliest surviving versions of the Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh (originally titled "He who Saw the Deep" (Sha naqba &#299;muru) or "Surpassing All Other Kings" (Sh&#363;tur eli sharr&#299;)) were written. 2000 - 1850 BCE The traditionally accepted period in which the Judeochristian/Islamic patriarchal figure Abraham lived. Likely born in Ur Ka&#347;dim or Haran and died in Machpelah, Canaan. 1700 BCE Zoroaster (a.k.a. Zarathushtra), founder of Zoroastrianism is thought to have been born. 1600 BCE The ancient development of Stonehenge comes to an end. 1500 - 1000 BCE Vedic 'Samhitas' composed (Rig-Veda : Hinduism : India)

Since: Mar 11

Ft Mitchell, KY

#40 Jun 28, 2012
13th to 9th century BCE
1367 BCE Reign of Akhenaton in Ancient Egypt. Akhenaton is sometimes credited with starting the earliest known monotheistic religion. Akenaton's monotheistic beliefs are thought to be the precursor of the monotheistic doctrines of the Abrahamic religions. 1300 - 1000 BCE The "standard" Akkadian version of the Epic of Gilgamesh was edited by Sin-liqe-unninni. 1250 BCE The believed time of the Hebrew exodus from Egypt. 1200 BCE The Greek Dark Age begins. 1200 BCE Olmecs build earliest pyramids and temples in Central America.[19] 950 BCE The Torah begins to be written, the core texts of Judaism and foundation of later Abrahamic religions. 877–777 BCE Parshva, 23rd Tirthankar of Jainism.[20][21][22][23][24][2 5]
[edit] 8th to 3rd century BCE
800 BCE Early Brahmanas are composed. 800 BCE The Greek Dark Age ends. 600 - 500 BCE Earliest Confucian writing, Shu Ching incorporates ideas of harmony and heaven. 599–527 BCE Mahavira, 24th and last Tirthankar of Jainism.[26] 563 BCE Gautama Buddha, founder of Buddhism is born. 551 BCE Confucius, founder of Confucianism, is born.[19] 440 BCE Zoroastrianism enters recorded history. 300 BCE Theravada Buddhism is introduced to Sri Lanka by the Venerable Mahinda. 250 BCE The Third Buddhist council was convened.
[edit] 2nd century BCE to 4th century CE
63 BCE Pompey captures Jerusalem and annexes Judea as a Roman client kingdom. 7 BCE - 36 CE The approximate time-frame for the life of Jesus of Nazareth, the central figure of Christianity.

So basically there's a whole lot of religion and Gods going on before the modern day Jesus Yahweh Myths. man has ahd tis facination with such Gods as a way of explaining away what they fail to understand. We see this today in the form of ID eact.

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#41 Jun 28, 2012
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
n/m I misread your synopsis , it does appear the concept of gods evolved as much as man himself did. But to be really honest it doesn't look like the concept of gods really caught on till civilization took hold. It's hard to imagine what beliefs hunter gatherers may have held. But it seems animalism may have been the predecessor to belief in gods.
I’ve just come back from France and spent some time at Grottes de Cougnac. Some very way out cave paintings, the first known finger prints, what looks distinctly like UFOs (really), lots of animals drawings. But what was striking was an area in the acoustic high point of the cave surrounded by the best paintings and with fossilised bone in a pit around what appeared to be a sacrificial stone.

The drawings were mostly done in charcoal that has been carbon dated to 38,000 years old.
LMT

Medina, OH

#42 Jun 28, 2012
Gabrian wrote:
<quoted text>
You do know that the string-universe idea has been debunked by the BGV theorem right? The BGV theorem also proves the universe had a beginning and wasn't eternal.
you theists need to read more and keep current on scientific breakthroughs. Here, read this:
http://www.amazon.com/Universe-Nothing-There-...

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