In America, atheists are still in the closet

Apr 11, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Spiked

So do many other interest and identity groups. Complaint is our political lingua franca: it's what Occupiers, Tea Partiers, Wall Street titans, religious and irreligious people share.

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44,261 - 44,280 of 47,724 Comments Last updated Sep 4, 2013
Lincoln

Rutherfordton, NC

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#45933
Jan 7, 2013
 
SupaAFC wrote:
<quoted text>
Just admit it, Lincoln: you don't like Wikipedia because their articles largely contradict your beliefs, and as such, you decide to reply to arguments using Wikipedia by shooting the messenger instead of addressing the content of the page.
You could not care less about academic quality, so fess up.
Inaccurate information that is not obviously false may persist in Wikipedia for a long time before it is challenged.
The most prominent cases reported by mainstream media involved biographies of living people.

Since: Jan 13

Clearwater, FL

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#45934
Jan 7, 2013
 

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Lincoln wrote:
<quoted text>
Inaccurate information that is not obviously false may persist in Wikipedia for a long time before it is challenged.
The most prominent cases reported by mainstream media involved biographies of living people.
I think the argument with Lincoln is getting off track. Let's assume his beliefs are correct. Let's say that Hitler, Stalin, etc were all atheists. So what? Plenty of people who are NOT atheists commit horrible crimes, including mass murder.(Jim Jones, Timothy McVeigh, the Crusaders, members of Al-Queda, etc.)

So Lincoln's basic argument, that atheism is a cause of criminal immorality, and his implied argument that religious faith prevents such immorality, are plainly false.

As I have mentioned before, I myself am an atheist. Unlike the believer's I mentioned above (Jim Jones, Timothy McVeigh, the Crusaders, members of Al-Queda, etc.), I have never murdered anyone, and I have never committed an act of violence or criminality against anyone. So how does that fit in with your fear and loathing of atheism?
SupaAFC

Milnathort, UK

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#45935
Jan 7, 2013
 

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Lincoln wrote:
<quoted text>
Inaccurate information that is not obviously false may persist in Wikipedia for a long time before it is challenged.
The most prominent cases reported by mainstream media involved biographies of living people.
Do you think this is a problem unique only to Wikipedia? All texts, studies and journals face the same problem of publishing wrong information whether intentionally or not. What makes Wikipedia so effective, however, is that it can be rectified very quickly and updated. Contrast that with written text that cannot be edited or updated on the spot, but only through latest editions.

I am certainly not saying that Wikipedia is the only, or the authoritative, source for all things academia, but it is certainly evident that you are doing everything you can to disqualify it as a source based on nothing but the fact that Wikipedia, as with all reliable materials, contradicts your religious beliefs. And yes, I am going there, because your whole "these historical figures were atheists!" line is old, repetitive, and a common silly argument used by Christian fundamentalists on these forums.

Just fess up already and admit that Wikipedia is not reliable because it is not the bible.
SupaAFC

Milnathort, UK

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#45936
Jan 7, 2013
 
Calm Liberal wrote:
<quoted text>
I think the argument with Lincoln is getting off track. Let's assume his beliefs are correct. Let's say that Hitler, Stalin, etc were all atheists. So what? Plenty of people who are NOT atheists commit horrible crimes, including mass murder.(Jim Jones, Timothy McVeigh, the Crusaders, members of Al-Queda, etc.)
So Lincoln's basic argument, that atheism is a cause of criminal immorality, and his implied argument that religious faith prevents such immorality, are plainly false.
As I have mentioned before, I myself am an atheist. Unlike the believer's I mentioned above (Jim Jones, Timothy McVeigh, the Crusaders, members of Al-Queda, etc.), I have never murdered anyone, and I have never committed an act of violence or criminality against anyone. So how does that fit in with your fear and loathing of atheism?
By Lincoln's argument his figures were all male. Therefore, men cause misery and devastation and thus we must leave all important roles and decisions to women.

Can you imagine a female pope?

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#45937
Jan 7, 2013
 

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Mikko wrote:
Sweden = Democracy
Democracy
"government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system."
'Monarchy definition, a state or nation in which the supreme power is actually or nominally lodged in a monarch.'

What's the official name of Sweden?

Do stop spamming the thread, Meatball.

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#45938
Jan 7, 2013
 

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ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Unlike US churches religions British churches and religions DO NOT have tax free status.
You are a liar- not only do UK churches (religions) enjoy tax benefits, they have "official" statuses, i.e., the Church of England (the official STATE church) is recognized while the Church of Scientology is not.

There is on "recognition" of churches or religions in the US.

Do you want to get tax free status for your Church of Flying Spaghetti Monster? A meeting house for your Association for fellow NotBots?

(quote)
When a local congregation practices the Lord’s Supper, who should participate?



Although other variations and definitions of the terms exist, the two main answers to that question are:



(1) Open communion: membership in that particular local congregation is not necessary. Anyone who examines themselves and knows that they are in Christ may participate.



(2) Closed communion: whether someone is a professing Christian or not, communion is restricted to actual members of that congregation.



These are fantastic areas for vigorous Biblical and theological debate and reflection. What at first may seem to be a “majoring on minors,” the discussion quickly opens into core concerns: the nature of the Gospel, regenerate church membership, church discipline, the marks of the church, etc.



In the end, whether a congregation holds to “open communion” or “closed communion,” the vital concern is for local congregations and pastors to search and study the Scriptures and ground their church practice on the authority of the Scripture.



But what if the government weighs in on this discussion?



Last week in the UK, a parliamentary select committee met to hear evidence that a Plymouth Brethren group may be denied charity status by the Charity Commission. The Charity Commission is the government agency that “registers and regulates charities in England and Wales” Although not an exact parallel, this would be similar to the Internal Revenue Service of the United States deciding that a church or denomination no longer qualified for 501(c)3 tax-exempt status.



So, what did this particular Plymouth Brethren group do to endanger their charity status? They practice closed communion:



“The right of churches to decide for themselves who may attend Holy Communion is being challenged by the Charity Commission. The Commission has refused to register a Plymouth Brethren group because its Holy Communion services are for members only. This would have a huge impact on the group’s tax relief and would also have other implications.”



Of course, the larger issue is about much more than Communion practices. The Commission would be setting a precedent that religious groups do not have an intrinsic characteristic of existing for the benefit of the public.



As reported in The Telegraph the Charity Commission argued that “there is no presumption that religion generally, or at any more specific level, is for the public benefit, even in the case of Christianity or the Church of England.”



If this decision by the Commission stands, the effect would be chilling. We will track this story and report on future developments.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

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#45939
Jan 7, 2013
 
SupaAFC wrote:
<quoted text>
By Lincoln's argument his figures were all male. Therefore, men cause misery and devastation and thus we must leave all important roles and decisions to women.
Can you imagine a female pope?
It has happened before, Pope Joan died while giving birth

Hence ever since a new pope is carried high above their heads and his cardinals must take a little peek and recite the words

“Testiculus habet, et bene pendentes”

Loose translation

He has testicles and they hang well
EdSed

Wishaw, UK

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#45940
Jan 7, 2013
 
SupaAFC wrote:
<quoted text>
....Can you imagine a female pope?
A sort of 'immaculate conception'?
:-)

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#45941
Jan 7, 2013
 

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ChristineM wrote:
I have shown you the relevant HMRC documents
Do you want to continue to deny (some) churches enjoy tax benefits in the UK?

Do you want to work through your lies forward or backward?

Or jump into the middle of the pile?

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#45943
Jan 7, 2013
 

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ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
That is the maximum estimate
Ah, so there was an estimate of 500,000K and you lied when you said otherwise.

PS: It is real hard to make esitmates from bomb photos and easly estimates from UK/USA "intelligence" put the death toll at 25,000.

“I started out with nothing”

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#45944
Jan 7, 2013
 

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barefoot2626 wrote:
<quoted text>
You are a liar- not only do UK churches (religions) enjoy tax benefits, they have "official" statuses, i.e., the Church of England (the official STATE church) is recognized while the Church of Scientology is not.
There is on "recognition" of churches or religions in the US.
Do you want to get tax free status for your Church of Flying Spaghetti Monster? A meeting house for your Association for fellow NotBots?
(quote)
When a local congregation practices the Lord’s Supper, who should participate?
Although other variations and definitions of the terms exist, the two main answers to that question are:
(1) Open communion: membership in that particular local congregation is not necessary. Anyone who examines themselves and knows that they are in Christ may participate.
(2) Closed communion: whether someone is a professing Christian or not, communion is restricted to actual members of that congregation.
These are fantastic areas for vigorous Biblical and theological debate and reflection. What at first may seem to be a “majoring on minors,” the discussion quickly opens into core concerns: the nature of the Gospel, regenerate church membership, church discipline, the marks of the church, etc.
In the end, whether a congregation holds to “open communion” or “closed communion,” the vital concern is for local congregations and pastors to search and study the Scriptures and ground their church practice on the authority of the Scripture.
But what if the government weighs in on this discussion?
Last week in the UK, a parliamentary select committee met to hear evidence that a Plymouth Brethren group may be denied charity status by the Charity Commission. The Charity Commission is the government agency that “registers and regulates charities in England and Wales” Although not an exact parallel, this would be similar to the Internal Revenue Service of the United States deciding that a church or denomination no longer qualified for 501(c)3 tax-exempt status.
So, what did this particular Plymouth Brethren group do to endanger their charity status? They practice closed communion:
“The right of churches to decide for themselves who may attend Holy Communion is being challenged by the Charity Commission. The Commission has refused to register a Plymouth Brethren group because its Holy Communion services are for members only. This would have a huge impact on the group’s tax relief and would also have other implications.”
Of course, the larger issue is about much more than Communion practices. The Commission would be setting a precedent that religious groups do not have an intrinsic characteristic of existing for the benefit of the public.
As reported in The Telegraph the Charity Commission argued that “there is no presumption that religion generally, or at any more specific level, is for the public benefit, even in the case of Christianity or the Church of England.”
If this decision by the Commission stands, the effect would be chilling. We will track this story and report on future developments.
Honey, how may times, I do not lie. I have shown you the official HMRC relevant data, you seem to ignore that. Never mind.

Whatever the church makes no difference to its tax status. Unless of course you can show me official HMRC documentation to prove me wrong

US churches are tax exempt whether they are recognised or not

Not interested in the rest of your hypothetical clap trap

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#45945
Jan 7, 2013
 

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SupaAFC wrote:
Why do you think Wikipedia is unreliable if it is regularly moderated and been able to put a major encyclopedia program out of business?
Cite the name of the author of the Wikipedia source.

“One of the dangers of Wikipedia is that students are maybe not critical enough of what is there,” Goldner said.”One-stop shopping makes for a lazy historian, and I think history students need to strengthen their research skills.”

Some students agree with what Goldner has to say about Wikipedia and believe that the site should be used as more of a reference with hobbies, and not as a reference for school.

“I’ll use it to get a general idea of what I’m researching, but I won’t use it as a source,” said Marlon Henriquez, a CTVA senior at CSUN.

And 22 percent of students said they rarely use Wikipedia, if at all, according to the PIL study.

Art major Chyenne DeWitt falls under this category and shares Henriquez’s belief in not using the website as a scholarly source.

“I’ve been on there and checked things and have found many inaccuracies,” DeWitt said.

Wikipedia is aware of the possible inaccuracies found on its articles, warning users from the start that not all entries are of encyclopedic quality and the articles may contain false or debatable information.

These inaccuracies are why most documents on Wikipedia are never considered complete, and they are continually edited and improved on over time. With this, Wikipedia generally sees results in an upward trend of quality and a growing consensus over neutral representation of information.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

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#45946
Jan 7, 2013
 
barefoot2626 wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you want to continue to deny (some) churches enjoy tax benefits in the UK?
Do you want to work through your lies forward or backward?
Or jump into the middle of the pile?
Show me evidence other than gift aid status that has already been explained to you and is available to all registered charities
barefoot2626 wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah, so there was an estimate of 500,000K and you lied when you said otherwise.
PS: It is real hard to make esitmates from bomb photos and easly estimates from UK/USA "intelligence" put the death toll at 25,000.
Cherry picking again. I said and I quote
That is the maximum estimate of an unqualified third party seeking sensationalism and termed “the wilder fringes of speculation” by academics

Yes real hard, however there were around 750,000 inhabitants and after 4 years of research all but 25,000 have been accounted for as specified in my link that you choose to ignore. Well done for being you typical ignorant self.

“There is no god!”

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#45947
Jan 7, 2013
 

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barefoot2626 wrote:
<quoted text>
'Monarchy definition, a state or nation in which the supreme power is actually or nominally lodged in a monarch.'
What's the official name of Sweden?
Do stop spamming the thread, Meatball.
Sweden = Democracy

Democracy

"government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system."

stop spamming the tread with false information about sweden,

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#45948
Jan 7, 2013
 

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SupaAFC wrote:
<quoted text>
People who live in reality. We can explain why Parliament exists, you can't. Why?
I don't give two sh!ts if the (mostly appointed) UK Parliament exists.

I've said so dozens of times.

Is the United KING_dom a monarchy, yes or NO?

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#45950
Jan 7, 2013
 
[QUOTE who="ChristineM"
Whatever the death toll people died and you are trying to score debating points out of those deaths you sick moron.
[/QUOTE]

HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA !

I guess you get to use those deaths,eh, you filthy diseased-infected Skanque.

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#45951
Jan 7, 2013
 
ChristineM wrote:
No you never said anything about the US involvent
I never said anything about the US "involvent" in WWII, SKAQUE?

HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAH!

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#45952
Jan 7, 2013
 

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ChristineM wrote:
Why would I be fascinated with your drippydick?
We all see you keep bringing it 'up', eh, Skanque? They must have left a bad taste in your mouth...

You spend a lot of time getting a closer view, it seems.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#45953
Jan 7, 2013
 
barefoot2626 wrote:
<quoted text>
Garbage in, garbage out.
One needs only ONE source if it's reputable.
And that wouldn't be Wiki.
You are correct, wikipedia is often irrefutable.

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#45954
Jan 7, 2013
 

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Mikko wrote:
<quoted text>
Sweden = Democracy
'Monarchy definition, a state or nation in which the supreme power is actually or nominally lodged in a monarch.'

What's the official name of Sweden?

Do stop spamming the thread, Meatball.

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