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FollowerofChrist

Fairmont, WV

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#1
Aug 1, 2013
 

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Are We Living in the End Times? by
Jerry B. Jenkins and Tim LaHaye

I humbly invite anyone who is concerned about the times we are living in to read the above book. The end times are here, now, and you need to be prepared. The ONLY way to do so is to seek Jesus Christ and become born again! PLEASE seek Jesus!
Amused

Princeton, MA

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#2
Aug 1, 2013
 

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FollowerofChrist wrote:
Are We Living in the End Times? by
Jerry B. Jenkins and Tim LaHaye
I humbly invite anyone who is concerned about the times we are living in to read the above book. The end times are here, now, and you need to be prepared. The ONLY way to do so is to seek Jesus Christ and become born again! PLEASE seek Jesus!
Christians have been saying this for 2,000 years. Each generation points to some contemporary events as 'proof' that the prophesied end times have arrived. Each generation has been wrong, starting with the one alive when jesus allegedly told them that some of them would still be alive when he returned. How'd that work out?
FollowerofChrist

Fairmont, WV

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#3
Aug 1, 2013
 

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Amused wrote:
<quoted text>
Christians have been saying this for 2,000 years. Each generation points to some contemporary events as 'proof' that the prophesied end times have arrived. Each generation has been wrong, starting with the one alive when jesus allegedly told them that some of them would still be alive when he returned. How'd that work out?
Read the book!
Amused

Clinton, MA

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#5
Aug 2, 2013
 

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FollowerofChrist wrote:
<quoted text>
Read the book!
Have read the book. Several times. It is still the musings of bronze age goat herders who weren't bright enough to know to keep their excrement out of their food.
FollowerofChrist

Fairmont, WV

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#6
Aug 2, 2013
 

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Amused wrote:
<quoted text>
Have read the book. Several times. It is still the musings of bronze age goat herders who weren't bright enough to know to keep their excrement out of their food.
First, why read a book you don't believe "several times"? Next, your argument is fallacious; what does their occupation have to do with their ability to be used by God? He used fishermen to begin the greatest movement of all time. The people of that long passed era may not have been book smart as we see it today, but they were faaaaaar wiser than anyone of us is now!
Amused

Clinton, MA

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#7
Aug 2, 2013
 

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FollowerofChrist wrote:
<quoted text>
First, why read a book you don't believe "several times"? Next, your argument is fallacious; what does their occupation have to do with their ability to be used by God? He used fishermen to begin the greatest movement of all time. The people of that long passed era may not have been book smart as we see it today, but they were faaaaaar wiser than anyone of us is now!
Wasn't a non believer when I read it the first few times. The more I read, the more WTF moments I had, as the absurdity of the book just increased with each reading. The bible was a major contributor to my becoming an atheist.

People who think killing someone for gathering firewood on a 'holy' day, or killing kids who sass back their parents, or women who are not virgins on their wedding night are all good ideas, that slavery is just fine, that genocide is ever a good moral choice, or would be commanded by an all benevolent deity are not wiser than modern folks, they are savages.

“Leave That Thing Alone!”

Since: Nov 07

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#8
Aug 2, 2013
 

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FollowerofChrist wrote:
<quoted text>
First, why read a book you don't believe "several times"? Next, your argument is fallacious; what does their occupation have to do with their ability to be used by God? He used fishermen to begin the greatest movement of all time. The people of that long passed era may not have been book smart as we see it today, but they were faaaaaar wiser than anyone of us is now!
Wiser!?? Seriously?? ROTFLMAO!!!!! I guess some were 'wise' enough to realize that they could attribute all the things in nature that people feared (sickness, deformities, lightning, thunder, earthquakes, rain, floods, volcanoes, etc) to a 'god or gods' that they could set themselves up as 'representatives of the gods'. That scam is still running and still based on fear and willful ignorance.
FollowerofChrist

Fairmont, WV

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#10
Aug 2, 2013
 

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Amused wrote:
<quoted text>
Wasn't a non believer when I read it the first few times. The more I read, the more WTF moments I had, as the absurdity of the book just increased with each reading. The bible was a major contributor to my becoming an atheist.
People who think killing someone for gathering firewood on a 'holy' day, or killing kids who sass back their parents, or women who are not virgins on their wedding night are all good ideas, that slavery is just fine, that genocide is ever a good moral choice, or would be commanded by an all benevolent deity are not wiser than modern folks, they are savages.
Those are all classic misunderstandings/misrepresent ations of the Bible. Unfortunately, it sounds as though you didn't have, or chose not to have, sound tutelage in the Word.
FollowerofChrist

Fairmont, WV

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#11
Aug 2, 2013
 

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TerryL wrote:
<quoted text> Wiser!?? Seriously?? ROTFLMAO!!!!! I guess some were 'wise' enough to realize that they could attribute all the things in nature that people feared (sickness, deformities, lightning, thunder, earthquakes, rain, floods, volcanoes, etc) to a 'god or gods' that they could set themselves up as 'representatives of the gods'. That scam is still running and still based on fear and willful ignorance.
No idea what you're talking about!

Since: Jun 07

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#13
Aug 2, 2013
 

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FollowerofChrist wrote:
<quoted text>
You should read the book "I Don't Have Enough Faith To Be an Atheist," by Norman Geisler.
When did dishonesty become a moral of your cult?
FollowerofChrist

Fairmont, WV

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#14
Aug 2, 2013
 
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
When did dishonesty become a moral of your cult?
??
FollowerofChrist

Fairmont, WV

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#15
Aug 2, 2013
 

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-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
When did dishonesty become a moral of your cult?
BTW, the term "cult" differs in meaning to Christians from how secularists define it. A cult is any religion/movement, the major doctrines of which, if followed, could cause a person to not find salvation (eg. Catholicism, Mormonism, JWs, Scientology, Buddhism, etc.).
Crolath

Shingletown, CA

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#17
Aug 2, 2013
 

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FollowerofChrist wrote:
<quoted text>
BTW, the term "cult" differs in meaning to Christians from how secularists define it. A cult is any religion/movement, the major doctrines of which, if followed, could cause a person to not find salvation (eg. Catholicism, Mormonism, JWs, Scientology, Buddhism, etc.).
It seems you're not real big on "truthiness," but for the record here are the ACTUAL signs of a cult - most of which are present in christianity:

1. The group is focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.

2. The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

3. The group is preoccupied with making money.

4. Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

5. Mind-numbing techniques (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, debilitating work routines) are used to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

6. The leadership dictates sometimes in great detail how members should think, act, and feel (for example: members must get permission from leaders to date, change jobs, get married; leaders may prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, how to discipline children, and so forth).

7. The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and members (for example: the leader is considered the Messiah or an avatar; the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity).

8. The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which causes conflict with the wider society.

9. The group's leader is not accountable to any authorities (as are, for example, military commanders and ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream denominations).

10. The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify means that members would have considered unethical before joining the group (for example: collecting money for bogus charities).

11. The leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control them.

12. Members' subservience to the group causes them to cut ties with family and friends, and to give up personal goals and activities that were of interest before joining the group.

13. Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group.

14. Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

Since: Jun 07

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#19
Aug 2, 2013
 

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FollowerofChrist wrote:
<quoted text>
BTW, the term "cult" differs in meaning to Christians from how secularists define it. A cult is any religion/movement, the major doctrines of which, if followed, could cause a person to not find salvation (eg. Catholicism, Mormonism, JWs, Scientology, Buddhism, etc.).
Its because you cannot prove the god of your cult, that you come in this forum to lie about it instead.

Hoping that nobody will notice your dishonesty...
Amused

Lowell, MA

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#20
Aug 3, 2013
 

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FollowerofChrist wrote:
<quoted text>
Those are all classic misunderstandings/misrepresent ations of the Bible. Unfortunately, it sounds as though you didn't have, or chose not to have, sound tutelage in the Word.
Exodus 21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

That's not ambiguous. Any English speaker can understand it. It is a direct quote and not a misrepresentation. You lied when you said it was.

Exodus 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

That's not ambiguous. Any English speaker can understand it. It is a direct quote and not a misrepresentation. You lied when you said it was.

Levitticus 25:44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.
25:45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.
25:46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.

That's not ambiguous. Any English speaker can understand it. It is a direct quote and not a misrepresentation. You lied when you said it was.

Deuteronomy22:13 If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her,
22:14 And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid:
22:15 Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate:
22:16 And the damsel's father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her;
22:17 And, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city.
22:18 And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him;
22:19 And they shall amerce him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days.
22:20 But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
22:21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

That's not ambiguous. Any English speaker can understand it. It is a direct quote and not a misrepresentation. You lied when you said it was.

Want more? I can keep this up all day, because all these things are plainly set out in the bible.
FollowerofChrist

Fairmont, WV

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#21
Aug 3, 2013
 

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Crolath wrote:
<quoted text>
It seems you're not real big on "truthiness," but for the record here are the ACTUAL signs of a cult - most of which are present in christianity:
1. The group is focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.
2. The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
3. The group is preoccupied with making money.
4. Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
5. Mind-numbing techniques (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, debilitating work routines) are used to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).
6. The leadership dictates sometimes in great detail how members should think, act, and feel (for example: members must get permission from leaders to date, change jobs, get married; leaders may prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, how to discipline children, and so forth).
7. The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and members (for example: the leader is considered the Messiah or an avatar; the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity).
8. The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which causes conflict with the wider society.
9. The group's leader is not accountable to any authorities (as are, for example, military commanders and ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream denominations).
10. The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify means that members would have considered unethical before joining the group (for example: collecting money for bogus charities).
11. The leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control them.
12. Members' subservience to the group causes them to cut ties with family and friends, and to give up personal goals and activities that were of interest before joining the group.
13. Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group.
14. Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.
1. Our living leader is Jesus who claimed and proved He deserves to be our leader.
2. We are preoccupied with showing people the way to salvation in Christ; it is their choice to accept or not.
3. True Christian churches only collect money to pay the pastors/administrators and maintain the church building. They also help to fund missionaries and other outreaches. Money is nothing more than a tool, not a driving factor in TRUE churches.
4. True Christian churches encourage questioning as our Bible says we should. One of the great early churches is lauded for the fact that it "searched the Scriptures daily" to be sure they were being taught the truth!
5. Does not apply to true Christian churches.
6. Same as 5
7. The only one we exalt is Jesus Christ.
8. We do not try to be us vs them, we try to be us inviting/ welcoming them into the family of Christ! Again, you choose not to become a believer then so be it.
9. Our leader is the creator of the universe; He is accountable to no one!
10. Does not apply; we do NOT believe evil/sinful ends justify the means!
11. No one is controlled in true Christianity. We are led/guided by the Holy Spirit, but not forced to do/say/believe anything!
12. Doesn't apply to true Christianity!
13. Same as 12
14. Same as 12
These things all fit well with groups such as the Jim Jones and David Koresh types, but those are nothing like us. Catholicism and Mormonism, etc. are composed of many of these aspects, but not true Christianity.
FollowerofChrist

Fairmont, WV

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#22
Aug 3, 2013
 

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-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
Its because you cannot prove the god of your cult, that you come in this forum to lie about it instead.
Hoping that nobody will notice your dishonesty...
I entered here only to offer people some hope based on a particular book. You don't want that, don't read it! No dishonesty was ever intended since you don't have to believe the book or me.
FollowerofChrist

Fairmont, WV

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#23
Aug 3, 2013
 

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Amused wrote:
<quoted text>
Exodus 21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
That's not ambiguous. Any English speaker can understand it. It is a direct quote and not a misrepresentation. You lied when you said it was.
Exodus 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.
That's not ambiguous. Any English speaker can understand it. It is a direct quote and not a misrepresentation. You lied when you said it was.
Levitticus 25:44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.
25:45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.
25:46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.
That's not ambiguous. Any English speaker can understand it. It is a direct quote and not a misrepresentation. You lied when you said it was.
Deuteronomy22:13 If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her,
22:14 And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid:
22:15 Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate:
22:16 And the damsel's father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her;
22:17 And, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city.
22:18 And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him;
22:19 And they shall amerce him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days.
22:20 But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
22:21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.
That's not ambiguous. Any English speaker can understand it. It is a direct quote and not a misrepresentation. You lied when you said it was.
Yes, they are very plain, but if you knew anything about these, you would know that they are OT laws given ONLY to the Israelites to keep them sanctified to God and set apart from the rest of the evil/ungodly world. These laws were given to the Israelites to keep them pure and holy and were necessary to allow them, as God's chosen people, to prove their love and dedication to Him by following them. The slaves were taken in war and were better off as slaves with them than dead! Remember also that these slaves would be treated well and not looked upon as less than human, which is totally opposite of what happened with recent/modern slavery in the US and elsewhere. Non-believers cannot possibly understand these things with their secular, untrained, non-Christian mind. One must consider many aspects (language differences, context, social differences, etc.) to understand the Bible. Until people like you get this training, you really should just keep your opinions to yourselves, as you only embarrass yourselves with this kind of nonsense!

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#25
Aug 3, 2013
 
FollowerofChrist wrote:
<quoted text>
I entered here only to offer people some hope based on a particular book. You don't want that, don't read it! No dishonesty was ever intended since you don't have to believe the book or me.
Lying about a god you have no evidence for is not smart of clever.

Do us a favour and remove the part in your book about atheists being fools.

You will get a lot more respect here if you correct your rag before coming in here with your fraudulent cult.

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#26
Aug 3, 2013
 
FollowerofChrist wrote:
<quoted text>
I entered here only to offer people some hope based on a particular book. You don't want that, don't read it! No dishonesty was ever intended since you don't have to believe the book or me.
These is hope in the world, when one day liars like you will voluntarily get the psychological help you need to treat your mental illness.
Instead of treating atheists like your doctors, who have to deal with your tired old theist sh*t 24/7.

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