Atheist Genocides?

Atheist Genocides?

There are 917 comments on the Examiner.com story from Dec 10, 2011, titled Atheist Genocides?. In it, Examiner.com reports that:

They say it isn't really a debate until somebody mentions Hitler, and the Freethinker's recent debate on the source of morality was no exception.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Examiner.com.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#22 Dec 15, 2011
Sherlane wrote:
<quoted text>
Bob, it's been a long time - how you been? Happy holidays, dear :)
Same to you and all your family.

Hope you get to make some more happy memories.

“Cave ab homine unius libri”

Since: Feb 07

Cape Town

#23 Dec 15, 2011
TheJazuma wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/em...
you cannot be a "human" without going through the zygote process.
True, in a causal manner. There are however several logical, practical and legal problems with that positions.

Let’s start with logical...... you define that life starts at the initial meeting between egg and sperm and yet both the egg and sperm are undoubtedly alive and carry within them the potential for life in much the same way that a zygote only has the potential for life. May zygotes and foetuses self terminate well before birth.

Given that a zygote has to be defined (due to practical probabilities) as a potential life, how far up the chain do you take this? The average man has 2.5 (say) kids? If you kill him do you get charged with 3.5 murders because you also killed off his likely progeny?

You cannot judge the possibility or potential for life, and life on the same standard.

Secondly, if you judge a foetus to be alive, you must give it all the same rights as you do a normal human. This would mean that every pregnancy where a child is lost before birth a possible murder investigation would need to be launched.

If a mother falls down the stairs and kills the “baby” that could be negligent homicide.

If the mother smokes or drinks during pregnancy that is child abuse and the mother needs to be incarcerated. Furthermore legally we must remove the “baby” from the mother’s custody.... how do you do this?

Clearly people who advocate for the granting of full legal rights to foetuses have not considered the implications of their position.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#24 Dec 15, 2011
Feanor wrote:
Clearly people who advocate for the granting of full legal rights to foetuses have not considered the implications of their position.
Clearly.

In fact? It is doubtful they have considered anything at all, apart from repeating the talking-points they were brainwashed with, by their religious patriarchy.
downhill246

Pompano Beach, FL

#26 Dec 25, 2011
Mr Smartypants wrote:
If atheism turned people into murderers, then Sweden would have the highest murder rate in the world. No, it's actually Catholic countries like Guatemala and El Salvador that have the highest murder rates.
What caused the horrific genocides in the Soviet Union, China, and Cambodia was a fanatical devotion to Marxism (and not the Groucho variety). Marxism isn't just a few ideas about how government should be run; it's an entire world view that, like any religion, explains the world and man's role in it. That's why I consider Marxism, Naziism, Objectivism, and other all-encompassing political isms to be quasi-religions.
I'm just finishing up watching "The East is Red", a Chinese musical that celebrates the communist takeover of China with interpretive dance (!). It really is a world view. And there's the idea that some dictatorships are 'cults of personality' centered around a secular messiah like Kim Il-Jung or Chairman Meow. If you lived in the Soviet Union during the reign of Uncle Joe and lived in Stalingrad or Stalinabad, or along the Stalin River, or in the Stalin Mountains, or in any of a zillion villages with a statue of Stalin, you might get the idea that he's sort of an ersatz Jesus Christ for Marxists--and you'd be right.
No, what ultimately causes genocides is when zillions of people get fanatical about some political or religious ideology. Communists and religious Dominionists might think they're on opposite sides, but I think it's ultimately the same personality disorder that causes people to become fanatics.5
It isn't atheism that turns people into murderers it is the promotion of atheism as official government policy that causes the tyranny to begin. We saw it during the French Revolution, again in Mexico in the early 20th century and as Vox Day says, "Communism is what happens when atheism meets bureaucracy."
Lenin stated, "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism" and no one can say that the two together are not synergistic. They feed off one another and when atheism is the official policy of government, history has shown us it becomes Murder Incorporated on steroids. Vox Day goes on to say, "while most literate individuals are aware of the atheism of mass murderers such as Josef Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao Zedong, they are not aware of how many other atheist leaders have been responsible for mass murder. In one of the book's appendices, I provided a list of 49 other atheist leaders who had overseen the slaughter of at least 20,000 individuals; these 52 leaders represent the majority of atheists who have ever held supreme political power." So yes atheism in power, being diametrically opposed to theism, will, and often has, killed millions to fight that belief.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#27 Dec 25, 2011
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
It isn't atheism that turns people into murderers it is the promotion of atheism as official government policy that causes the tyranny to begin.
Then ... how do you explain the US >>godless<< and >>atheistic<< Constitution?

<laughing out loud at the ignorance of the godbots>
Sherlane

Sussex, NJ

#28 Dec 25, 2011
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Same to you and all your family.
Hope you get to make some more happy memories.
Thank you, sweetie :) You're very kind.
downhill246

Pompano Beach, FL

#30 Dec 26, 2011
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Then ... how do you explain the US >>godless<< and >>atheistic<< Constitution?
<laughing out loud at the ignorance of the godbots>
You forgot the godless internal revenue Code too. There were no atheist founding fathers, non at all. John Adams mocked France after the French Revolution, calling it a nation of 30 million atheists. Benjamin Franklin said infidels were so rare in the US that you could live your life and never get upset by meeting one. James Madison said unless a person was a subject of God he couldn't be a member of civil society. Joseph Story said the word of an atheist was not accepted in court.The US Constitution has
at least two Christian accommodations, no atheist ones.
downhill246

Pompano Beach, FL

#31 Dec 26, 2011
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Then ... how do you explain the US >>godless<< and >>atheistic<< Constitution?
<laughing out loud at the ignorance of the godbots>
"The attempt by the rulers of a nation [France] to destroy all religious opinion and to pervert a whole people to atheism is a phenomenon of profligacy [an act of depravity].... To establish atheism on the ruins of Christianity [is] to deprive mankind of its best consolations and most animating hopes and to make it a gloomy desert of the universe."
Alexander Hamilton

"I anticipate nothing but suffering to the human race while the present systems of paganism, deism and atheism prevail in the world."
Benjamin Rush, Signer of the Declaration of Independence

"I believe no one can read the history of our country without realizing that the Good Book and the spirit of the Savior have from the beginning been our guiding geniuses. Whether we look to the first Charter of Virginia or to the Charter of New England ... or to the Charter of Massachusetts Bay ... or to the Fundamental Orders of Connecticut ... the same objective is present ... a Christian land governed by Christian principles. I believe the entire Bill of Rights came into being because of the knowledge our forefathers had of the Bible and their belief in it: freedom of belief, of expression, of assembly, of petition, the dignity of the individual, the sanctity of the home, equal justice under law, and the reservation of powers to the people ... I like to believe we are living today in the spirit of the Christian religion. I like also to believe that as long as we do so, no great harm can come to our country."

Supreme Court Chief Justice Earl Warren (1954)

Another ass bot bites the dust.

Since: Apr 08

Corby, UK

#32 Dec 26, 2011
Mr Smartypants wrote:
If atheism turned people into murderers, then Sweden would have the highest murder rate in the world. No, it's actually Catholic countries like Guatemala and El Salvador that have the highest murder rates.
What caused the horrific genocides in the Soviet Union, China, and Cambodia was a fanatical devotion to Marxism (and not the Groucho variety). Marxism isn't just a few ideas about how government should be run; it's an entire world view that, like any religion, explains the world and man's role in it. That's why I consider Marxism, Naziism, Objectivism, and other all-encompassing political isms to be quasi-religions.
I'm just finishing up watching "The East is Red", a Chinese musical that celebrates the communist takeover of China with interpretive dance (!). It really is a world view. And there's the idea that some dictatorships are 'cults of personality' centered around a secular messiah like Kim Il-Jung or Chairman Meow. If you lived in the Soviet Union during the reign of Uncle Joe and lived in Stalingrad or Stalinabad, or along the Stalin River, or in the Stalin Mountains, or in any of a zillion villages with a statue of Stalin, you might get the idea that he's sort of an ersatz Jesus Christ for Marxists--and you'd be right.
No, what ultimately causes genocides is when zillions of people get fanatical about some political or religious ideology. Communists and religious Dominionists might think they're on opposite sides, but I think it's ultimately the same personality disorder that causes people to become fanatics.5
You're absolutely right.

Just watching the mass hysteria in N Korea showed that they worshipped their leader as a god. Already, people are linking his death with imagined mystical occurrences.

Something that atheists would never do.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16297811
downhill246

Pompano Beach, FL

#33 Dec 26, 2011
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Clearly.
In fact? It is doubtful they have considered anything at all, apart from repeating the talking-points they were brainwashed with, by their religious patriarchy.
Yet atheists have been known for promoting the killing of newborns too. Apparently it is the nature of the best.

"...So the issue for ending life for disabled newborn infants is not without complications, which we do not have the space to discuss adequately.
Nevertheless, the main point is clear: killing a disabled infant is not morally equivalent to killing a person. Very often, it is not wrong at all."

-Atheist Professor Peter Singer, the Ira W. DeCamp Professor of Bioethics at Princeton University (Practical Ethics)

As I recall he figured 30 days should be sufficient time to decide whether you want to murder your disabled infant or not.
downhill246

Pompano Beach, FL

#34 Dec 26, 2011
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
You're absolutely right.
Just watching the mass hysteria in N Korea showed that they worshipped their leader as a god. Already, people are linking his death with imagined mystical occurrences.
Something that atheists would never do.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16297811
They would have made great Michael Jackson groupies. Just goes to show you how effective atheist propaganda can work on an "unsophisticated and captive" audience.

“I am”

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#36 Dec 26, 2011
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
It isn't atheism that turns people into murderers it is the promotion of atheism as official government policy that causes the tyranny to begin. We saw it during the French Revolution, again in Mexico in the early 20th century and as Vox Day says, "Communism is what happens when atheism meets bureaucracy."
Lenin stated, "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism" and no one can say that the two together are not synergistic. They feed off one another and when atheism is the official policy of government, history has shown us it becomes Murder Incorporated on steroids. Vox Day goes on to say, "while most literate individuals are aware of the atheism of mass murderers such as Josef Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao Zedong, they are not aware of how many other atheist leaders have been responsible for mass murder. In one of the book's appendices, I provided a list of 49 other atheist leaders who had overseen the slaughter of at least 20,000 individuals; these 52 leaders represent the majority of atheists who have ever held supreme political power." So yes atheism in power, being diametrically opposed to theism, will, and often has, killed millions to fight that belief.
1) Vox day is as reliable of a source as ChristWire.org . Vox Day only wishes to extend their own religious views by insulting all other philosophical views with propaganda and falsehoods, making Christianity look like the only "good" religion."

2) You do realize that the killing, the unsteady government, the horrors of the French Revolution was caused by (I don't believe I have to explain this) A REVOLUTION! It was a gigantic rebellion against the crown for all of the privileges that were given to the Nobles, while the regular worker was left to die. Taxes were taken from the poor without thinking about their needs, food was scarce, and they could barely take care of themselves, let alone their kids. After the Rebellion, it didn't get better. The Reign of Terror was a huge series of killings and murders on both sides of the Revolution. Guillotines were quite common, and even the old King Louis XVIII was killed.
These killings were caused by civil unrest and a disastrous rebellion. They had absolutely nothing to do with atheism. To make a comparison between the two is simply foolish.

3) Please try to remember that All of those leaders that you listed did not kill because they were atheists, nor did they kill because of that "state atheism" bull crap. In fact, a lot less people died for religion than you would think. For example, Stalin killed approximately 20 million people, with an additional estimated 14.5 million who starved. Another 5 million are estimated to have died in gulags, 9.5 million deported or killed politically, and 18 million overall sent to the gulag, who survived the horrors inside.
The approximate amount of those who were killed for "religious reasons" is less than 1 million. over 40 million killed, and about 2.5% of them involved religion.
Atheism and communism do not go hand in hand. In fact, far from it. The Communism that Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot all used and spread didn't kill in the name of atheism. It killed all those who were against it. All those who conspired, all those who said something was wrong, all those who were thought to have said that, and a great deal of people who simply were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Communism, in the wrong hands, is horrifying, and can lead to total domination over a country. However, atheism and communism are hardly comparable, or even coupled.

“I am”

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#37 Dec 26, 2011
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
You forgot the godless internal revenue Code too. There were no atheist founding fathers, non at all. John Adams mocked France after the French Revolution, calling it a nation of 30 million atheists. Benjamin Franklin said infidels were so rare in the US that you could live your life and never get upset by meeting one. James Madison said unless a person was a subject of God he couldn't be a member of civil society. Joseph Story said the word of an atheist was not accepted in court.The US Constitution has
at least two Christian accommodations, no atheist ones.
What you fail to remember is that France was in terrible shape at the time. Their economy was twisted, their reign ending, and their political system revolted against. Madison wasn't stating that France is horrible simply because of something he never could have measured. He was insulting France because of what had recently occurred in History.
While the Founders were religious, they despised religious laws. That's why there are none in the Constitution. Didn't we argue this point in Atheism and Cowardice? They knew that religion was a personal thing, and that people had many different interpretations of what the Bible stated. Therefore, they did not allow for any constitutional laws declaring one church more superior to another.
And before we get into that "State's religious laws" argument, many of those laws were disbanded after the States realized how controversial and controlling they were.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#38 Dec 26, 2011
Blah... blah... blah...

... more meaningless dribble from the [heading]downhill...

Not worth even reading...
truth

Perth, Australia

#39 Dec 26, 2011
No over me
gen 1 ; 3 6 9 14=N

Who is creator?
Did Creator created everything two kingdoom before 3x say man..yes it is ..first commandments is not from mosess..real Creator..''take care man''..
O did you?!
How?
Look what you done dear children between each other?!
Look evry river lake tree everything for support system
you destroy?!

Did you say what?
Excuise me please..
what where how..?
look its look over..what as wound=crasta like on your human body..its look planetary too..
Did you do that ''man''?
Did you take care?
about
What?
Human life
animals fish bird life
flora fauna green life
Did you destroy?
How you act as destroyer?
Are you still act as woman wrong or point finger to somebody else you or you..maybe in secret command
conection with what?
Are you going destroy this planet?
Start something new!
Because of what..you find what?
That you are not on tree of life!
Are you for what weed seed=prodeath?
Or real seed=prolife
Did you know meaning of ''preservence of life''?

Did you know about your real destroyer in secret?

Did you know about your Savior as Salvation?
downhill246

Boca Raton, FL

#40 Dec 27, 2011
Being Alive wrote:
<quoted text>
What you fail to remember is that France was in terrible shape at the time. Their economy was twisted, their reign ending, and their political system revolted against. Madison wasn't stating that France is horrible simply because of something he never could have measured. He was insulting France because of what had recently occurred in History.
While the Founders were religious, they despised religious laws. That's why there are none in the Constitution. Didn't we argue this point in Atheism and Cowardice? They knew that religion was a personal thing, and that people had many different interpretations of what the Bible stated. Therefore, they did not allow for any constitutional laws declaring one church more superior to another.
And before we get into that "State's religious laws" argument, many of those laws were disbanded after the States realized how controversial and controlling they were.
The founders did not believe atheism worked in a republic.
The founders didn't despise religious laws and Jefferson wrote religious laws while governor of Virginia and some survived into the 20th century. The framers wrote the establishment clause to prevent the federal government from infringing on state religious establishments. When written, the establishment clause restricted Congress only, which was the original intent of the clause. The framers made sure that religion remained a state power only.Further, The US Constitution has at least two Christian accommodations written into it, the " Sunday Excepted" rule and "oaths and affirmations.."

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#41 Dec 27, 2011
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
The founders ...."
The Founders were complex men of the Enlightenment. To claim there were one dimensional in any respect is to attempt to rewrite history.

Were they religious? Yes, most were Deists, which at the time was a pretty liberal notion.

Was "separation" just about States rights? Mainly, but not entirely. Again, these were complex thinkers.

-- Thomas Jefferson:“Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.”

... "Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person's life, freedom of religion affects every individual. State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of the church tends to make the clergy unresponsive to the people and leads to corruption within religion."

...“The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”

-- Benjamin Franklin:“Many a long dispute among divines may be thus abridged: It is so; It is not so. It is so; it is not so.”

...“When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power,'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.”

-- John Adams:“Can a free government possibly exist with the Roman Catholic religion?”

...“The Church of Rome has made it an article of faith that no man can be saved out of their church, and all other religious sects approach this dreadful opinion in proportion to their ignorance, and the influence of ignorant or wicked priests.”

-- James Madison:“Every new & successful example of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters is of importance.”

... What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; in many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient allies.”

...“Experience witnesseth that eccelsiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of Religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.”

...“Is the appointment of Chaplains to the two Houses of Congress consistent with the Constitution, and with the pure principle of religious freedom? In strictness the answer on both points must be in the negative. The Constitution of the U S forbids everything like an establishment of a national religion. The law appointing Chaplains establishes a religious worship for the national representatives, to be performed by Ministers of religion, elected by a majority of them, and these are to be paid out of the national taxes. Does this not involve the principle of a national establishment...?”

Cpt Jack Sparrow

“.strike yer colors swab ”

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#42 Dec 27, 2011
The problem with you whining Christians is that while none of you have lost one iota of freedom to practice your religion in the least you are restricted from being able to impose it on the culture. In spite of Your protestations that failure to do so will result in National disaster nothing significantly attributable has occured nor has it added or taken away one fraction of an inch from any of your inflamed pricks.`~Cpt Jack Sparrow~ Bwa Ha Ha Ha Ha !
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
"The attempt by the rulers of a nation [France] to destroy all religious opinion and to pervert a whole people to atheism is a phenomenon of profligacy [an act of depravity].... To establish atheism on the ruins of Christianity [is] to deprive mankind of its best consolations and most animating hopes and to make it a gloomy desert of the universe."
Alexander Hamilton
"I anticipate nothing but suffering to the human race while the present systems of paganism, deism and atheism prevail in the world."
Benjamin Rush, Signer of the Declaration of Independence
"I believe no one can read the history of our country without realizing that the Good Book and the spirit of the Savior have from the beginning been our guiding geniuses. Whether we look to the first Charter of Virginia or to the Charter of New England ... or to the Charter of Massachusetts Bay ... or to the Fundamental Orders of Connecticut ... the same objective is present ... a Christian land governed by Christian principles. I believe the entire Bill of Rights came into being because of the knowledge our forefathers had of the Bible and their belief in it: freedom of belief, of expression, of assembly, of petition, the dignity of the individual, the sanctity of the home, equal justice under law, and the reservation of powers to the people ... I like to believe we are living today in the spirit of the Christian religion. I like also to believe that as long as we do so, no great harm can come to our country."
Supreme Court Chief Justice Earl Warren (1954)
Another ass bot bites the dust.
Epicurus

Winter Garden, FL

#43 Dec 27, 2011
Christopher Hitchens wrote:
http://www.wayoflife.org/


http://jesusneverexisted.com/sheep.html
Epicurus

Winter Garden, FL

#44 Dec 27, 2011
truth wrote:
No over me
gen 1 ; 3 6 9 14=N
Who is creator?
Did Creator created everything two kingdoom before 3x say man..yes it is ..first commandments is not from mosess..real Creator..''take care man''..
O did you?!
How?
Look what you done dear children between each other?!
Look evry river lake tree everything for support system
you destroy?!
Did you say what?
Excuise me please..
what where how..?
look its look over..what as wound=crasta like on your human body..its look planetary too..
Did you do that ''man''?
Did you take care?
about
What?
Human life
animals fish bird life
flora fauna green life
Did you destroy?
How you act as destroyer?
Are you still act as woman wrong or point finger to somebody else you or you..maybe in secret command
conection with what?
Are you going destroy this planet?
Start something new!
Because of what..you find what?
That you are not on tree of life!
Are you for what weed seed=prodeath?
Or real seed=prolife
Did you know meaning of ''preservence of life''?
Did you know about your real destroyer in secret?
Did you know about your Savior as Salvation?
Please take 500mg Thorazine.

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