“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#269 May 1, 2013
spudgun wrote:
<quoted text>
Good series of posts. I think this proves beyond doubt that The CC is not set up by God, does not have the holy spirit, and does not have anything special. It is clearly a corrupt man made institution.
And their church is the only one with a semi legitimate claim, as they can trace their heritage back 2000 years. The 40,000 sects since have no legitimacy either.
Therefore the only rational stance imo is to reject all forms of organised religion.
What you say here, is so patently obvious that I sometimes wonder at the actual sanity of people who continue to give it money...

... then I recall how easy it is for people to stick their virtual head into the virtual sand, and...

... as that old TV character Sgt Shultz said so very often:

"I See Nothing"

And I sigh with sadness at the thought of the abuse continuing...

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#270 May 1, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
Peace on earth?
Not as long as organized religion exists
Yes.
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#271 May 1, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
What you say here, is so patently obvious that I sometimes wonder at the actual sanity of people who continue to give it money...
Yes, me too. I think a lot of theists have to have undiagnosed mental health problems. Otherwise they would be able to see through the obvious falsehoods of the church.
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#272 May 1, 2013
I have looked up the number of Christian denominations. As the oft quoted figure of 40,000 seemed too high. However there appears to be a valid source for this. Whilst many are not significant, there are a reported approx. 41,000 denominations.

"The figures on Christian movements in this report were commissioned by the Pew Forum from the Center for the Study of Global Christianity (CSGC) at Gordon–Conwell Theological Seminary in South Hamilton, Mass. CSGC researchers generated their estimates based in large part on figures provided by Christian denominations and organizations around the world. CSGC has obtained denominational membership information from about 41,000 organizations worldwide."

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#273 May 1, 2013
spudgun wrote:
I have looked up the number of Christian denominations. As the oft quoted figure of 40,000 seemed too high. However there appears to be a valid source for this. Whilst many are not significant, there are a reported approx. 41,000 denominations.
"The figures on Christian movements in this report were commissioned by the Pew Forum from the Center for the Study of Global Christianity (CSGC) at Gordon–Conwell Theological Seminary in South Hamilton, Mass. CSGC researchers generated their estimates based in large part on figures provided by Christian denominations and organizations around the world. CSGC has obtained denominational membership information from about 41,000 organizations worldwide."
Yeah... this is up, from earlier studies which had put the figure around 35K.

The short answer is obvious: the number of different brands is increasing.

The exact >>opposite<< you would expect, if there actually was a single, unifying god behind >>any<<.

I mean-- if one >>did<< have a god behind it? It would naturally have ... Divine Guidance.

And would soon overtake, and engulf the non-divine versions. In short order, we would see a rapid joining of the non-divine brands, being overwhelmed by the Awesome Power Of Divine Guidance.

What mere human agency could possibly compete with THAT?

....!!!

:D
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#274 May 1, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
I mean-- if one >>did<< have a god behind it? It would naturally have ... Divine Guidance.
And would soon overtake, and engulf the non-divine versions. In short order, we would see a rapid joining of the non-divine brands, being overwhelmed by the Awesome Power Of Divine Guidance.
Agreed. Alternatively if there was a God he could impact knowledge of his wonderfulness into everyone's minds simultaneously. This would do without the need for "prophets", holy men, and wackos having to preach by word of mouth. Which is a very poor method of communicating his "word". This would also bypass the confusing and contradictory array of competing belief systems. This imaginary deity could then if it wished put us to test for real, as we would have a clear and informed choice to chose from.
Paul WV

Beckley, WV

#275 May 1, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
The "Free" Gift
An often quoted, and very effective line for producing converts to the cult of Jesus(Christianity) is as follows:
What is so hard about accepting a FREE gift of salvation from the Lord Jesus Christ?
It doesn't require anything on your part, but to accept it.
If this gift truly required nothing as the claim says, then you wouldn't have to accept it to be saved.
This line of reasoning is used repeatedly by those trolling for converts in schools, offices, on TV, and just about anywhere else you find an aggressive member of the cult of Jesus.
It's the same nonsense that is spewed and taught in Bible study classrooms in most churches.
It first requires that you perform a work. That work is believing Jesus is your Savior and that only he can serve as your intermediary with God.
Of course it also means that you accept all the baggage that goes along with that.
It means you accept as truth that this "God" will punish people for the "sin" of disbelief(Mark 16:16, John 16:9, John 3:18, John 3:36, Heb 3:12, 1 John 2:22),
it requires that you worship a God who will provide infinite punishment for finite sins, and it requires that you accept a God with the behavior of a rather manipulative, power hungry, petty tyrant.
It means you must abandon your mind to save your soul. You must confess Jesus is your Lord and worship him as such.
Make no mistake concerning the actual nature of this so-called "free" gift.
Salvation is exchanged for worship and it's nothing more than a holy barter system where you say the magic words and you are saved. On the surface it's cheap, easy, and painless. It appeals to anyone who doesn't want to be burdened with thinking for themselves, but it's in no sense "free".
This form of holy fire insurance is nothing more than false advertising and should be treated with the same regard one would have when he opens a box of Cracker Jacks and digs out the cheap trinket that came as a "free" gift when you purchased the box it came in.
The free gift is that if you chose to love God then you will live forever with Him; else if you chose to turn your back on God then you will remain separated from Him for eternity; which is hell. It just a matter of how you chose to spend eternity: with God or separated from God.

All the universe cries out there is a God and only a fool will say in his heart there is no God. I chose to spend my eternity with my God and Creator.
Paul WV

Beckley, WV

#276 May 1, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's skip all the hyperbole Paul
It's about covering up a crime!
It's about permitting priests to continue this crime in another parish
It's about hiding and covering up an ongoing crime
Take this for analogy Paul you own a nationwide chain of day care centers
It is reported to you that there is widespread abuse in your day care centers
What is your response ?
Fire these people and report them over to the police?
Carefully move them to other day care centers you own in other states?
You are free to believe what you want to believe, but because you believe it does not make it true nor a convincing arguement.
Imhotep

Gainesville, FL

#277 May 1, 2013
spudgun wrote:
<quoted text>
Good series of posts. I think this proves beyond doubt that The CC is not set up by God, does not have the holy spirit, and does not have anything special. It is clearly a corrupt man made institution.
And their church is the only one with a semi legitimate claim, as they can trace their heritage back 2000 years. The 40,000 sects since have no legitimacy either.
Therefore the only rational stance imo is to reject all forms of organised religion.
Thank you

With over 1200 Christian organizations, the USA has a greater number of Jesus fan clubs than any other country in the world. The proliferation of variegated brands of Christianity in America is so extreme that it acquires a comic dimension. One might discern only a subtle difference in name between, say, the "Evangelical Congregational Church" and the "Evangelical Covenant Church", or the "Church of God in Christ" and "Church of Christ" but miss a gulf of doctrinal distinction.

But then, who is bothered about doctrine anyway? Denominations, a source of so much anguish and bloodshed in the past, have diminishing importance in the era of evangelical psychosis, mega-churches and apocalyptic blockbusters. The important thing is to "have religion". "With religion" you are a patriot, defending the American way of life; without religion you are a subversive radical, an enemy.

Christianity USA is all show business and emotional razzmatazz. Organised as international corporations, with a globalised "mission" of subsidiary offices, its product is propaganda, pouring in prodigious quantity from a network of TV and radio stations and publishing houses. The intent is to draw further millions into the mass of devotees.

In choreographed extravaganzas Pastor whips up mindless love of Jesus and serious fund raising, and then retreats to his opulent sanctuary, content in knowing that he is a tireless servant of the Lord.

http://jesusneverexisted.com/sheep.html
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#278 May 1, 2013
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
The free gift is that if you chose to love God then you will live forever with Him; else if you chose to turn your back on God then you will remain separated from Him for eternity; which is hell. It just a matter of how you chose to spend eternity: with God or separated from God.
And what evidence do you base this claim on? There is no convincing evidence of life after death. The Bible is not a good source of evidence. And neither is the Quran.
Imhotep

Gainesville, FL

#279 May 1, 2013
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
You are free to believe what you want to believe, but because you believe it does not make it true nor a convincing arguement.
What would it take to convince you that Pedophilia is active in your church?

Nationwide news all outlets
Worldwide news all outlets

A plethora of websites detailing country by country Vatican abuses

It's not a belief Paul - you are self-deluded and confused

it's reality your church is populated largely with pedophile priests, Hence servants of the Paraclete don't you know your faith?

I think you need to pray the rosary three times backwards holding a crucifix upside down

Wow! you are really a classic case study in religious dementia
Thinking

London, UK

#280 May 1, 2013
It was 38k last time I looked. The rise from 35k to 38k to 41k+ in such a short time means that members per flavour is shrinking.
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah... this is up, from earlier studies which had put the figure around 35K.
The short answer is obvious: the number of different brands is increasing.
The exact >>opposite<< you would expect, if there actually was a single, unifying god behind >>any<<.
I mean-- if one >>did<< have a god behind it? It would naturally have ... Divine Guidance.
And would soon overtake, and engulf the non-divine versions. In short order, we would see a rapid joining of the non-divine brands, being overwhelmed by the Awesome Power Of Divine Guidance.
What mere human agency could possibly compete with THAT?
....!!!
:D
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#281 May 1, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
In choreographed extravaganzas Pastor whips up mindless love of Jesus and serious fund raising, and then retreats to his opulent sanctuary, content in knowing that he is a tireless servant of the Lord.
lol. Mike Murdoch and Benny Hinn springs to mind. Wolves, in wolves clothing!!
Thinking

London, UK

#282 May 1, 2013
All the believing in the world will not make god exist.
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
All the disbelieving in the world will not make God not exist.
Paul WV

Beckley, WV

#283 May 1, 2013
spudgun wrote:
<quoted text>
And what evidence do you base this claim on? There is no convincing evidence of life after death. The Bible is not a good source of evidence. And neither is the Quran.
The evidence is in the world around us and the improbability of it all being an "accident". If I find a watch on mars I would not call it an accident of nature and the same if life is found there.
Paul WV

Beckley, WV

#284 May 1, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
What would it take to convince you that Pedophilia is active in your church?
Nationwide news all outlets
Worldwide news all outlets
A plethora of websites detailing country by country Vatican abuses
It's not a belief Paul - you are self-deluded and confused
it's reality your church is populated largely with pedophile priests, Hence servants of the Paraclete don't you know your faith?
I think you need to pray the rosary three times backwards holding a crucifix upside down
Wow! you are really a classic case study in religious dementia
Yes and the Church must vet candidates to the priesthood and keep those with deviant sexual behavior, such as homosexuality, out.
Paul WV

Beckley, WV

#285 May 1, 2013
Thinking wrote:
All the believing in the world will not make god exist.
<quoted text>
The universe cries out there is a God. The Bolzman Brain Paradox shows how improbable this world is without an almighty intelligent designer.
Thinking

London, UK

#286 May 1, 2013
That's not evidence.

The more we research the less improbable life looks.
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
The evidence is in the world around us and the improbability of it all being an "accident". If I find a watch on mars I would not call it an accident of nature and the same if life is found there.
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#287 May 1, 2013
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
The evidence is in the world around us and the improbability of it all being an "accident". If I find a watch on mars I would not call it an accident of nature and the same if life is found there.
That seems like a good argument. Except the universe and life has evolved over billions of years and there are billions of stars and planets in the universe. So seen in that context, life as we know it becomes more probable.

What we know hasnt happended for certain is the Bible/Quran proposition of spontaneous creation in 6 days 6000 years ago. This has been proved false, and only in the last 200 years have we begun to understand better out true origins.
Imhotep

Gainesville, FL

#288 May 1, 2013
spudgun wrote:
<quoted text>
lol. Mike Murdoch and Benny Hinn springs to mind. Wolves, in wolves clothing!!
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch...

Hilarious you too can reap a harvest!
You need a plant a seed though - lol

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