Taxpyer pays for churchea and ministers.

Posted in the Atheism Forum

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redneck

Myrtle Creek, OR

#1 Jul 23, 2012
Every military base has a chapel and chaplin paid for by taxpyers. Why should the public subsidize religion? Let the GOP cut that spending.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#2 Jul 23, 2012
redneck wrote:
Every military base has a chapel and chaplin paid for by taxpyers. Why should the public subsidize religion? Let the GOP cut that spending.
I do not think they will. More likely they will try to vet every chaplain job applicant to make sure he is nutty as a fruitcake.

apologies to fruitcakes.

and guess what there's more. A friend of mine has just completed many years of being subsidized by government payments of her tuition at a Bible College to get an Associates degree in the particular religion it teaches. she pays part, and government pays part. it is based on need and disability, and is designed to get her a job that will pay her an income - presumably as a minister. i call that unconstitutional. i think it is probably very close to the sort of thing that was objected to centuries ago, when Jefferson and others did not like it that people of certain religious views were being taxed to pay salaries of clerics of the Established state religion.

the Founders had seen Established state religions, and probably had less chance of rooting it out in their own states, than in putting in a non-Establishment clause in the new national constitution. Each state could have been so dominated by one sect that they would have held on to their Established religion. Yet folks in each state would know that other states had other churches as their Established religions, and would not want to be dominated by those - and since they could not predict that their own would win out in a battle on which sect would get to Establish itself as the national religion, they wisely yielded to non-Establishment on a national level - even if they supported it on a state level. That is a guess, since I have not seen studies of it,. If anyone knows, please tell us. but it seems sensible - a catholic would rather have freedom of religion nationally, and an Established Catholic church on the state level - or even local level!- rather than risk having Protestantism established nationally. and vice versa, of course, though the first would be more likely, I think.

so now we have my friend taught to spread her idiotic religious views, with a degree from a Bible college, partly paid for by taxpayers like me. I do not approve. I will confess I told her I would wait to raise hell about it until after she got her degree, and of course now she is worried that I might be effective at doing so. I told her that it would not make any difference, because religion is already sort-of established in certain ways, and any attempt to dislodge it will meet with radical rightwing outrage. she was relieved. my friend believes in kitty-cat heaven, which is a mixed blessing. it is a consolation for her, but from my point of view, it makes it easier for one to undervalue the life of cats. pretty much as Ifeel about the notion of a human heaven. "oh well, they have gone to a better place" - is an undervaluing of this life, the only one we know we have.

“There are other issues.”

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#3 Aug 2, 2012
Most tax payers are theists so they should keep this program.

“God=Registered Sex Offender!”

Since: Jul 12

Wylie, TX

#4 Aug 2, 2012
Educated What wrote:
Most tax payers are theists so they should keep this program.
Absolutely! In addition, most tax-paying theists in this country are Christians and most Christians in this country are Protestants so the government needs to promote the CORRECT theistic text, the Holy Word of God...The KING JAMES BIBLE! Our tax dollars should NOT further the jurisdiction of heresies such as Mormonism with its grotesque perversion of TRUTH or Mary-worshipping Catholicism.

Jews and Muslims must convert to their NATURAL Lord, Master and Messiah, Jesus Christ. Converted Jews who recite the Lord's Prayer in all humility, with bowed heads, and kneel before Calvary's cross are a delight unto Yahweh as they have become completed Jews, full of the Holy Spirit, instead of being an incorrigible herd of unsaved trash fit for the fires of Hell. It is not enough to be a fuzzy-feel-good-Kumbaya "theist" in order to be saved because, as my pastor says, "Heck is where you go when you worship the WRONG Gosh!"

I'm not ashamed of Christ,

America's Best Christian

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#5 Aug 2, 2012
Educated What wrote:
Most tax payers are theists so they should keep this program.
It has nothing to do what what 'most citizens' believe.
It is an accredited college, offers a degree.

In the future we may have a Satanic college, offering degrees in various forms of Satanism, Atheism, etc.
It would, by all that is reasonable, offer the same opportunties as a bible college, government scholarships, loans, grants, etc.

Most Citizens are carnivores, but students can get degrees in vegetarian culinary arts, as an example. Vegan as well.

Cannabilism, against the law, won't fly.

In a Representative Republic, it is not the majority that rules, but the representatives.

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#6 Aug 2, 2012
Freedom OF religion, REQUIRES Freedomn From Religion.

You don't like it, don't listen.

You are forced to listen, you have lost your freedom.
Rvolution may be necessary.

“There are other issues.”

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#7 Aug 2, 2012
BeHereNow wrote:
Freedom OF religion, REQUIRES Freedomn From Religion.

You don't like it, don't listen.

You are forced to listen, you have lost your freedom.
Rvolution may be necessary.
Lol! Atheists are outnumbered. Lol!

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#8 Aug 2, 2012
Educated What wrote:
<quoted text>
Lol! Atheists are outnumbered. Lol!
Here is what I have found.

Many Baptists say Cathjolics do not worship god (must make them athneists).

Many portestanes say Hindus do not worship god (must make them atheists).

If a Christian wants to increase the numbers of theists, every drunkard, childmoester, murder that ever opened a bible is a christian/theist.

How is it with you?
Are most Mjuslims following God, good Theists, so to say?

When it comes to identifying the followers of GOD, suddenly the faithful are far less in numbers.

You tell me any person who says they have a god they believe inSatan or ootherwise is a Theist, and hyou may have a point.

Slo how is it?
Do most Muslims worship GOD?

“There are other issues.”

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#9 Aug 2, 2012
BeHereNow wrote:
<quoted text>Here is what I have found.

Many Baptists say Cathjolics do not worship god (must make them athneists).

Many portestanes say Hindus do not worship god (must make them atheists).

If a Christian wants to increase the numbers of theists, every drunkard, childmoester, murder that ever opened a bible is a christian/theist.

How is it with you?
Are most Mjuslims following God, good Theists, so to say?

When it comes to identifying the followers of GOD, suddenly the faithful are far less in numbers.

You tell me any person who says they have a god they believe inSatan or ootherwise is a Theist, and hyou may have a point.

Slo how is it?
Do most Muslims worship GOD?
Here is something for you to research on, did you know that Laveys Church of Satan are actually Atheists?

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#10 Aug 2, 2012
Educated What wrote:
<quoted text>
Here is something for you to research on, did you know that Laveys Church of Satan are actually Atheists?
You did not answer the question.
His is not the only church of Satan, only the most well known.

The Apostle Paul wrote that Satan is the god of this world (2 Cor. 4:4). He also referred to him as the prince of the power of the air.“Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience”(Eph. 2:2).

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#11 Aug 2, 2012
More:
Few people today appreciate the power and influence of the Devil. Little do they realize that he has churches and many religions.“Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee”(Rev. 3:9). Most Bible commentators believe the word “Jews” in this passage refers to those who regard themselves as spiritual Jews, that is, converted Christians (Rom. 2:28-29). Satan could not possibly deceive the masses today if he did not appear attractive. He does not have a pitchfork and wear horns. This is why Paul wrote:“For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works”(2 Cor. 11:13-15). Indeed, Satan appears as a “light bringer” who has many ministers.
http://www.bethelcog.org/church/general-artic...

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#12 Aug 2, 2012
Educated What wrote:
<quoted text>
Lol! Atheists are outnumbered. Lol!
So you really can't grasp the concept of representative republic.

I can't tell if you really are that simple minded or if this lack of basic ability to think is a product of your religious upbringing.

Either way, you should be pitied.

“There are other issues.”

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#13 Aug 2, 2012
BeHereNow wrote:
<quoted text>You did not answer the question.
His is not the only church of Satan, only the most well known.

The Apostle Paul wrote that Satan is the god of this world (2 Cor. 4:4). He also referred to him as the prince of the power of the air.“Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience”(Eph. 2:2).
So you don't know.

“There are other issues.”

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#14 Aug 2, 2012
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>So you really can't grasp the concept of representative republic.

I can't tell if you really are that simple minded or if this lack of basic ability to think is a product of your religious upbringing.

Either way, you should be pitied.
But who asked you?
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#15 Aug 2, 2012
Educated What wrote:
Most tax payers are theists so they should keep this program.
No, it violates the First Amendment, as applied to the states and local governments by the USSCT through the doctrine of incorporation. one cannot have the federal government stopped from Establishing religion, and yet let the state and local governments Establish religion. are you for all sorts of Establishment - or just in the military? I do not mind if just rightwing fundie theists go off and get killed. But I hear that some of the high officers send the non-fundies into more unpleasant or hazardous duties. There are articles and even a book about it.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#16 Aug 2, 2012
BeHereNow wrote:
More:
Few people today appreciate the power and influence of the Devil. Little do they realize that he has churches and many religions.“Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee”(Rev. 3:9). Most Bible commentators believe the word “Jews” in this passage refers to those who regard themselves as spiritual Jews, that is, converted Christians (Rom. 2:28-29). Satan could not possibly deceive the masses today if he did not appear attractive. He does not have a pitchfork and wear horns. This is why Paul wrote:“For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works”(2 Cor. 11:13-15). Indeed, Satan appears as a “light bringer” who has many ministers.
http://www.bethelcog.org/church/general-artic...
OK, about that part about Satan appearing attractive. I'll admit it. Mel Gibson is kinda cute sometimes. Even sexy, as in the movie where he knew what women were thinking. Is that what you had in mind?
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#17 Aug 2, 2012
Educated What wrote:
<quoted text>
Lol! Atheists are outnumbered. Lol!
quality counts, not quantity. atheists are much more intelligent, usually - you know who excepted!(we agree about that one!) and there are some nice theists, even some who are kinda smart about other things, other than religion. and not all atheists are nice or intelligent. all it means is not believing in a god. it does not have anything to say about ethics - that requires other descriptive terms, such as secular humanist, if that is what someone is - which most of the nicer and wiser atheists are, more or less. some of the good ethics of kind atheists are not that different from some of the good ethics of kind believers - that is the good news, despite all our arguments about theology. people on both side can believe in being kind to other living beings. that helps, it is a basis to begin looking for agreement on behavior - and then let people disagree about the theology part without hating each other.(or using all sorts of ignorant four letter words to denounce others or lie about them - Skeptic is worst on the atheist side, but some socalled Christians are pretty vile in their language occassionaly, also)
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#18 Aug 2, 2012
BeHereNow wrote:
Freedom OF religion, REQUIRES Freedomn From Religion.
You don't like it, don't listen.
You are forced to listen, you have lost your freedom.
Rvolution may be necessary.
we are not that bad off yet. there is some Establishment of religion, but given the number of fundies and even go-along centrists who tolerate Establishment practices, we may be lucky they are not trying just to repeal the first amendment!
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#19 Aug 2, 2012
BeHereNow wrote:
<quoted text>It has nothing to do what what 'most citizens' believe.
It is an accredited college, offers a degree.
In the future we may have a Satanic college, offering degrees in various forms of Satanism, Atheism, etc.
It would, by all that is reasonable, offer the same opportunties as a bible college, government scholarships, loans, grants, etc.
Most Citizens are carnivores, but students can get degrees in vegetarian culinary arts, as an example. Vegan as well.
Cannabilism, against the law, won't fly.
In a Representative Republic, it is not the majority that rules, but the representatives.
I do not think it is proper to give government scholarships, lowinterest loans, grants, or other subsidies to any religious college or school of any kind - not even for veterans, or disabled persons. It taxes other people to subsidize religious propaganda. that was one of the reasons for the adoption of the first amendment.

“There are other issues.”

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#20 Aug 2, 2012
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text>No, it violates the First Amendment, as applied to the states and local governments by the USSCT through the doctrine of incorporation. one cannot have the federal government stopped from Establishing religion, and yet let the state and local governments Establish religion. are you for all sorts of Establishment - or just in the military? I do not mind if just rightwing fundie theists go off and get killed. But I hear that some of the high officers send the non-fundies into more unpleasant or hazardous duties. There are articles and even a book about it.
All I can say is when we are at war, we all need to unite as a team and work together to accomplish victory. I believe the government should keep funding religion on base. I still believe that prayer should be allowed in schools since the majority are theists. Now if they are atheists, they do no have to participate. I mean coaches, teachers always lead teams in prayer.

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