If God is false, why are we here?

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Lurker

Houston, TX

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#62
Nov 19, 2008
 
nina wrote:
<quoted text>
but too often that religious book does say nonbelievers must be converted by the word or the sword
many religious people are not content to leave others to their own beleifs
even the current Pope seeks to unite all xtians under the Catholic banner
because apparently, they are not the right kind of xtian
islamic faith does require the deaths of non-adherants or anyone who converts away from islam
If the don't have religion, they would find another reason to hate.

Think about it, they don't understand how we live day by day without killing and raping. My only guess is because they can't live like that.

They wouldn't even know how to act or make their own choices. If it wasn't for their pastors they would be out shooting everyone.
nina

Ottawa, Canada

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#63
Nov 24, 2008
 

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Lurker wrote:
<quoted text>
...They wouldn't even know how to act or make their own choices. If it wasn't for their pastors they would be out shooting everyone.
you're right

if they don't understand that they shouldn't murder, rape, assault or steal all on their own

then it's better to hand them a code and say there's an eternal punishment for breaking it

but funny how they think that having to be handed a code and not be able to reason it out on their own

makes them think they are somehow more moral than those of us who can
Lurker

Houston, TX

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#64
Nov 25, 2008
 
nina wrote:
<quoted text>
you're right
if they don't understand that they shouldn't murder, rape, assault or steal all on their own
then it's better to hand them a code and say there's an eternal punishment for breaking it
but funny how they think that having to be handed a code and not be able to reason it out on their own
makes them think they are somehow more moral than those of us who can
It's pretty sad if you really think on it. Their code is not written very well. What they need is a better religion to follow. One where there is no doubt that hurting others is wrong.

“Liberalism = disorder ”

Since: Sep 08

ATLANTA

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#65
Nov 25, 2008
 
HURTING others isn't always wrong though. This world (hmmm cough cough, the USA) is too PC and wimpy when it comes to punishment/deterrance.

LIBERALS bitch and moan about the death penalty for unrepentant muderers costing us 40K/year in taxes and CARE SOOOO MUCH for the rights of poor detainees at Guantanimo Bay but care NOTHING about 1.5 million aborted babies. DUH!!!!!!!!! Something wrong there dont you guys think?

Since: Oct 08

Buffalo, NY

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#66
Nov 25, 2008
 

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jakeKO54 wrote:
HURTING others isn't always wrong though. This world (hmmm cough cough, the USA) is too PC and wimpy when it comes to punishment/deterrance.
LIBERALS bitch and moan about the death penalty for unrepentant muderers costing us 40K/year in taxes and CARE SOOOO MUCH for the rights of poor detainees at Guantanimo Bay but care NOTHING about 1.5 million aborted babies. DUH!!!!!!!!! Something wrong there dont you guys think?
Wait, you mean killing/torturing sentient adult human beings is more morally correct than killing a lump of tissue that is neither conscious nor feeling? I think you are the one that has a problem with your morality.

Also, you're misinformed. It actually costs taxpayers *more* money to execute someone because of the lengthy appeals process required. Or, would you rather do away with that and execute more innocent people?
nina

Ottawa, Canada

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#67
Nov 26, 2008
 
jakeKO54 wrote:
HURTING others isn't always wrong though.... Something wrong there dont you guys think?
yeah, I'll say wrong, I wonder how you're against abortion but for the death penalty

explain how you want it both ways
Lurker

Houston, TX

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#68
Nov 26, 2008
 
Not to mention bringing a child into the world were he/she is not wanted or loved. Is Jakeko54 willing to support them. It's funny how conservatives bitch about abortion and welfare.
nina

Ottawa, Canada

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#69
Nov 26, 2008
 
Lurker wrote:
Not to mention bringing a child into the world were he/she is not wanted or loved. Is Jakeko54 willing to support them. It's funny how conservatives bitch about abortion and welfare.
life begins at conception and ends at birth

“Liberalism = disorder ”

Since: Sep 08

ATLANTA

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#70
Nov 26, 2008
 
nina wrote:
<quoted text>
yeah, I'll say wrong, I wonder how you're against abortion but for the death penalty
explain how you want it both ways
The fact that you cannot see the stark difference between aborting unborn children and killing MURDERERS for their crimes shows your obvious & profound illogic & even borderline stupidity.

Why both ways??? So you're saying someone's either totally FOR or totally AGAINST killing? So if i want the death penalty then i MUST be FOR abortion? WOW

Killing isn't always wrong, was what i was saying, sometimes, often it's justified. How can YOU justify abortions, while whining about the poor murderers out there???

“Liberalism = disorder ”

Since: Sep 08

ATLANTA

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#71
Nov 26, 2008
 
CatherineNY wrote:
<quoted text>
Wait, you mean killing/torturing sentient adult human beings is more morally correct than killing a lump of tissue that is neither conscious nor feeling? I think you are the one that has a problem with your morality.
Also, you're misinformed. It actually costs taxpayers *more* money to execute someone because of the lengthy appeals process required. Or, would you rather do away with that and execute more innocent people?


OMG, wow. Killing rapists and murderers (as used as a deterrant anyway) is FAR from aborting unborn babies - NOT always "tissue," DUH. Call it that, but its still an UNBORN life.

Now, TORTURE?????? Where the hell does torture come into this? Because i mentioned GITMO? So you believe we've been torturing them? Even IF we have do you not think that SLEEP DEP, LOUD NOISE, & whatever else they do is not for a purpose? These are unrepentant terrorists/insurgents who've tried to murder our brothers/sisters, mothers/fathers out on the field. And you wanna stand up for them, what the hell's wrong with u???

Not to mention, you obviously have NO CLUE what real toruture is b/c ur probably basing it off of what u saw out of Abu Graib. You call that torture? That wasn't torture. Torture is beating someone, ripping off fingers, blow tortching, cutting, things like that, stuff Saddam practiced. How are u so ignorant that you believe our wimpy "torture" methods should call for ur concern for those people???
Stuart

Edinburgh, UK

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#73
Nov 26, 2008
 
jakeKO54 wrote:
<quoted text>
The fact that you cannot see the stark difference between aborting unborn children and killing MURDERERS for their crimes shows your obvious & profound illogic & even borderline stupidity.
Why both ways??? So you're saying someone's either totally FOR or totally AGAINST killing? So if i want the death penalty then i MUST be FOR abortion? WOW
Killing isn't always wrong, was what i was saying, sometimes, often it's justified. How can YOU justify abortions, while whining about the poor murderers out there???
But they're not unborn children - simply a collection of cells or a foetus if slightly more developed.

At this stage it has no consciousness or nervous system. It's not a sentient organism and is certainly not a child.

You're simply resorting to the typical exaggerated and denigrating language used by many of the so called "pro life" groups. "Pro life" so long as you're not born yet.

Most of these people appear to value collections of cells more than any real human beings as can be seen from the above comments.

And why stop at protecting only fertilised eggs. Surely every egg is a potential child.

These people have just made up an arbitrary distinction of when a life starts to give them something to moan about.

Meanwhile thousands of REAL children are dying every day all round the world from disease, starvation, war, abuse, etc. But who cares about that when we can go and shout abuse at women attending abortion clinics. That's far more productive.
nina

Ottawa, Canada

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#74
Nov 26, 2008
 
jakeKO54 wrote:
<quoted text>
The fact that you cannot see the stark difference between aborting unborn children and killing MURDERERS for their crimes shows your obvious & profound illogic & even borderline stupidity.
Why both ways??? So you're saying someone's either totally FOR or totally AGAINST killing? So if i want the death penalty then i MUST be FOR abortion? WOW
Killing isn't always wrong, was what i was saying, sometimes, often it's justified. How can YOU justify abortions, while whining about the poor murderers out there???
I am for abortion and for the death penalty, which is not inconsistent

in fact, I would expand the death penalty to include serial rapists and pedophiles.

my position is not inconsistent.

yours is.

either life is sacred or it's not.
nina

Ottawa, Canada

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#75
Nov 26, 2008
 
Stuart wrote:
<quoted text>
....
And why stop at protecting only fertilised eggs. Surely every egg is a potential child.
These people have just made up an arbitrary distinction of when a life starts to give them something to moan about.
...
every sperm is sacred

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

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#76
Nov 26, 2008
 
jakeKO54 wrote:
<quoted text>
...aborting unborn children ...How can YOU justify abortions,...
About 15 to 20 percent of known pregnancies end in miscarriage. Studies have found that 30 to 50 percent of fertilized eggs are lost before a woman finds out she's pregnant.

Isn't the term "miscarriage" just a euphemistic way of saying "god-caused abortions"?

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

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#77
Nov 26, 2008
 
Stuart wrote:
<quoted text>
But they're not unborn children - simply a collection of cells or a fetus if slightly more developed....These people have just made up an arbitrary distinction of when a life starts to give them something to moan about.
...
Yes, The argument really hinges on the question of “when does life begin?”

Even the Supremes had trouble with this question, so they took a pass –“We need not resolve the difficult question of when life begins. When those trained in the respective disciplines of medicine, philosophy, and theology are unable to arrive at any consensus, the judiciary, at this point in the development of man's knowledge, is not in a position to speculate as to the answer.”(Mr. Justice Blackmun, majority decision, Roe v. Wade)

In order to legally define life, we need only look at the legal definition of death. The legal definition of life would then be any condition that does not meet the criteria of the legal definition of death. That is to say, life is defined as the absence of death.

The legal definition of death (in most states) requires irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain, including the brain stem. If we accept this premise, then the legal definition of the beginning of life would be when brain activity starts.

Strangely enough, we now have a good, clear, independently verifiable measure of when that occurs. Brain activity begins at what embryologists refer to as Carnegie Stage 19, approximately 46 days after fertilization.

That should really upset BOTH sides. So maybe that's the right answer!
nina

Ottawa, Canada

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#78
Nov 26, 2008
 
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
... Brain activity begins at what embryologists refer to as Carnegie Stage 19, approximately 46 days after fertilization.
That should really upset BOTH sides. So maybe that's the right answer!
brain activity is a great place to put a life start

however, until it's not physically dependant on the mother

that is viable outside of the womb

it doesn't really matter

the unborn are not owed more consideration that the ones we confirm are alive - the woman who is pregnant

given the high rate of fertilized eggs that fail to implant and miscarriages

if there is a god, birthing babies is clearly not high on the priority list

otherwise, the rates would be non-existant

and all sex would result in pregnancy

“Liberalism = disorder ”

Since: Sep 08

ATLANTA

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#79
Nov 26, 2008
 
Stuart wrote:
<quoted text>
But they're not unborn children - simply a collection of cells or a foetus if slightly more developed.
At this stage it has no consciousness or nervous system. It's not a sentient organism and is certainly not a child.
You're simply resorting to the typical exaggerated and denigrating language used by many of the so called "pro life" groups. "Pro life" so long as you're not born yet.
Most of these people appear to value collections of cells more than any real human beings as can be seen from the above comments.
And why stop at protecting only fertilised eggs. Surely every egg is a potential child.
These people have just made up an arbitrary distinction of when a life starts to give them something to moan about.
Meanwhile thousands of REAL children are dying every day all round the world from disease, starvation, war, abuse, etc. But who cares about that when we can go and shout abuse at women attending abortion clinics. That's far more productive.


Oh, here we go. "Collection of cells" is only ONE point in the pregnancy genius! We're talking about ALL abortions, at all stages, and YOU justify all stages, claiming, "well if IT hasn't come out, ITS not a person - rediculous. Way too often they are babies, not that you would care because you're too busy promoting "women's rights."

"Real human beings"? WHO are you talking about? I value all life AS FAR as i can, UNTILL someone crosses the line between good and evil and rapes for fun, molests children for enjoyment, and murders innocents - THOSE lives I do not value - WHY do you??? See to you, those people are waaaaaayyyy more important than "unborn babies," -that's sick!

I'm "bitching & moaning" about a real problem, not saying starving children is not, however this ISNT that forum dude!

“Liberalism = disorder ”

Since: Sep 08

ATLANTA

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#80
Nov 26, 2008
 
nina wrote:
<quoted text>
I am for abortion and for the death penalty, which is not inconsistent
in fact, I would expand the death penalty to include serial rapists and pedophiles.
my position is not inconsistent.
yours is.
either life is sacred or it's not.


Sorry, life IS sacred, however if someone decides to go out and murder a child for fun, or anything like that then they're lives are better off expended in order to protect many other lives. At that point, far as i'm concerned, they've given up any rights to their lives. A life is a life in God's eyes (Christian belief) however God would not disagree with killing others TO PROTECT the innocent.

So, don't say I'm inconsistant. That's the same thing as saying we should NOT have tried to kill HITLER in the 40s. Because the evil bastards that they are still DESERVE to live as much as an innocent child does, that they should be afforded same rights as a 4 year old kid - MY GOD you guys think like morons!

“Liberalism = disorder ”

Since: Sep 08

ATLANTA

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#81
Nov 26, 2008
 
CatherineNY wrote:
<quoted text>
We're not important. Why is that scary? Why do you need to be thought of as "important" to have a good life?


Ok if we're not important, then why do liberals bitch & moan about prisoners at GITMO, or "cry" for murderers on death row?

“Darwin died for your sins”

Since: Aug 08

Nunya

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#82
Nov 26, 2008
 
jakeKO54 wrote:
<quoted text>
OMG, wow. Killing rapists and murderers (as used as a deterrant anyway) is FAR from aborting unborn babies - NOT always "tissue," DUH. Call it that, but its still an UNBORN life.
Now, TORTURE?????? Where the hell does torture come into this? Because i mentioned GITMO? So you believe we've been torturing them? Even IF we have do you not think that SLEEP DEP, LOUD NOISE, & whatever else they do is not for a purpose? These are unrepentant terrorists/insurgents who've tried to murder our brothers/sisters, mothers/fathers out on the field. And you wanna stand up for them, what the hell's wrong with u???
Not to mention, you obviously have NO CLUE what real toruture is b/c ur probably basing it off of what u saw out of Abu Graib. You call that torture? That wasn't torture. Torture is beating someone, ripping off fingers, blow tortching, cutting, things like that, stuff Saddam practiced. How are u so ignorant that you believe our wimpy "torture" methods should call for ur concern for those people???
So, if your son or daughter is getting waterboarded, is it torture or not?

And if a child recieves it's soul at conception, then what about twins? Twins do not seperate till days after conception. While your at it, what about a chimera

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