Atheism and homosexuality

Atheism and homosexuality

There are 3861 comments on the Conservapedia story from Dec 5, 2011, titled Atheism and homosexuality. In it, Conservapedia reports that:

Creationist scientists and creationist assert that the theory of evolution cannot account for the origin of gender and sexual reproduction.http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/136http://www.answersingenesis.org/pbs_nova/0928ep5.asp [[Creation Ministries International]] states: "Homosexual acts go against [[God]]'s original [[Intelligent design ... (more)

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“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#1738 Aug 16, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Artificially grown animal tissue has been fodder for Science Fiction stories since the 50's at least.
Of course, we now know that DNA by itself wouldn't work at all-- epigenetics would be missing the proper environmental cues, and you'd not get muscle tissue-- you'd get a gooey mess.
Of course, the famous "chicken heart" experiment shows that if you **start** with relatively mature muscle tissue and grow your muscle from **that**, it does work.
Google "Chicken heart experiment" for more.
Probably even before the 50's and even Frankenstein, could be argued as a variant of that idea I suppose, but point taken.

I would agree that some sort of tissue culture would be the best approach, but it might be easier to start with something like algae rather than beef. Just make it look and taste like meat as much as possible. Maybe even fungal chitin could be the starting point. Neither sound very appetizing, but we Americans have spent that last hundred years learning to eat food products as much just food, so it might pass muster with the general public. Of course this is another science fiction idea too.

Sometimes, those guys were pretty good at prediction. Of course some of them were trained in science or engineering.

I will try not to be chicken hearted and check out the "chicken heart" experiment.

Good talking to you.

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#1739 Aug 16, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
It's one possible way to grow artificial animal tissue without growing the whole animal.
As science slowly unravels how DNA and epigenetics works, we are realizing that the environment is essential for proper cellular differentiation and growth.
So it appears that the SciFi dream of growing, say succulent T-bone steaks as a giant slab on a sterile stainless steel table is a pipe-dream-- won't work. The muscle tissue doesn't have the cues it needs to **be** muscle tissue-- and it won't work as we now understand it.
Muscle requires movement, for one thing, to grow properly. It also seems to require other things nearby, like fatty tissue, connective tissue, bones, etc.
That is, if you are starting from scratch.
Of course, if you were to start **with** those succulent meats--still alive-- and began from there? Well--that may just work.
I checked out the chicken heart experiment and after reading it I had a "duh moment". I knew better. I should have at least remembered my freshman biology if nothing else.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#1740 Aug 17, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
You are the one stopping free speech by claiming you believe in god and that evolution is false.
^^^These two statements are untrue, I've never professed my faith in God or claimed evolution is untrue. The left needs lies because the truth isn't on their side. Also note the rejection of the argument in favor of discrediting and defamaing political opponents.

“No Headline available”

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#1741 Aug 17, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
^^^These two statements are untrue,
Every statement you utter is untrue.
Brian_G wrote:
I've never professed my faith in God or claimed evolution is untrue.
Actually, you have. You are slipping if you have forgetten that detail.
Brian_G wrote:
The left needs lies because the truth isn't on their side.
You wouldn't know the truth if it hit you on the head.
Brian_G wrote:
Also note the rejection of the argument in favor of discrediting and defamaing political opponents.
The truth is an absolute defense against defamation, and you are an imbecile.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#1742 Aug 17, 2013
Decade_in_Ruin wrote:
God said let US ( plural ) man in OUR ( plural ) image. And HE made THEM male and female. Man being of both sex not one and Adam being not the first man but the last man created but the first to be converted into only one sex male and another sex woman being female.
When a child is born today that is,( hermorphadite ) it is called a genetic abnormality. Yet according to the text the god of Adam was the one that was ashamed of what ( I have created ) but Christians proclaim that the ones before Adam were beasts as they were mad at the same time.
As Jesus pointed out " they will come in my name and confound the teaching "
Is it right for same sex. Not for me to judge.
Does the bible say it is wrong. No there is nothing that says god is against it.the word sex is mentioned one time " bring him out so we may know ( have sex ) him. However a bit of research will show that the actual reading is fornicate. And fornicate does not mean sex.
Man shall not lie with another man as with woman.
Again , a bit of research will prove it is not about sex. Lie is to give false whiteness towards.
The list goes on and on in the Christians poor attempt to excuse themselves of not loving thy neibour.
So please read the bible and research it.
And stop regurgitating the same roman BS.
Like a dog eating its own vomit.
DUDE!

USE PARAGRAPHS.

Your wall'o'words is totally unreadable.

Of course-- the fact that you cannot spell, and have no clue how to end a sentence isn't helping, either...

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#1743 Aug 17, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Probably even before the 50's and even Frankenstein, could be argued as a variant of that idea I suppose, but point taken.
I would agree that some sort of tissue culture would be the best approach, but it might be easier to start with something like algae rather than beef. Just make it look and taste like meat as much as possible. Maybe even fungal chitin could be the starting point. Neither sound very appetizing, but we Americans have spent that last hundred years learning to eat food products as much just food, so it might pass muster with the general public. Of course this is another science fiction idea too.
Sometimes, those guys were pretty good at prediction. Of course some of them were trained in science or engineering.
I will try not to be chicken hearted and check out the "chicken heart" experiment.
Good talking to you.
Entirely plant-based "meat" would be a worthy goal, for sure-- especially if the total energy input was lower than actually raising animals (and no reason why not).

Another thing you could keep, would be the chlorophyll cycle that most plants have-- in this way, your "plantanimal" could gain energy directly from sunlight, and create it's own sugars from that.

There is no chemical or scientific reason why an animal could not also have chlorophyll in it's cells.

Of course... the meat would then be green like lettuce or spinach.

That **might** take some getting used to.

:D

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#1744 Aug 17, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
I will try not to be chicken hearted and check out the "chicken heart" experiment.
Good talking to you.
Late last night, I got curious about the now famous "chicken heart" experiment.

I first heard of it in a story by Robert Heinlein, and did some rudimentary research (this was back in the 70's, pre-internet, so research involved reading scientific magazines in my library...).

Back then, it was a well established story, and generally accepted as having happened-- a German scientist had successfully grown a piece of chicken heart in a petri dish--still beating after 25 years, or so it goes. "immortal" in terms of your average chicken's usual lifespan.

But now? It seems the story may have been a scam, and some consider the scientist to be discredited.

Unknown at this juncture, if he was successful or not. Lots of idiotic "woo" stories surrounding that tale, though, on the "benefits" of various bullshit "health" schemes.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#1745 Aug 17, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>I checked out the chicken heart experiment and after reading it I had a "duh moment". I knew better. I should have at least remembered my freshman biology if nothing else.
:)

It seems that the story has been discredited in some scientific circles.

I cannot find (via the web) definitive information either way--but lots and lots of contentious argument in both directions.

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#1746 Aug 17, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>^^^These two statements are untrue, I've never professed my faith in God or claimed evolution is untrue. The left needs lies because the truth isn't on their side. Also note the rejection of the argument in favor of discrediting and defamaing political opponents.
So you basically run off lies of omission. We GET that. You make a lot of unfounded accusations. That seems to be what you run on. You do this all in a weak, backward way so that you can feel like you can say you don't do it.

The position you have developed is that of a con man. You don't see it, because you have this pathologically, deluded view of yourself. You feel you are always right and therefore anything you say is always right. This doesn't require knowledge or the critical evaluation of anything and it is clear you neither have the former nor do the latter.

Reading the exchanges you have with others, it is obvious what you are doing. Of course you will hide behind the lie that the left needs to lie in response to any post that exposes your foolishness and lies. The very basis of this response requires that you know that everyone that disagrees with you is a liberal. You can't know this, so using that excuse is another lie.

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#1747 Aug 17, 2013
GlobeStar wrote:
<quoted text>
Sad? Wrong? Nope, honey I'm doin mighty fine and don't need any discoveries; .
You have decided to stop growing and learning?

How sad.

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#1748 Aug 17, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Late last night, I got curious about the now famous "chicken heart" experiment.
I first heard of it in a story by Robert Heinlein, and did some rudimentary research (this was back in the 70's, pre-internet, so research involved reading scientific magazines in my library...).
Back then, it was a well established story, and generally accepted as having happened-- a German scientist had successfully grown a piece of chicken heart in a petri dish--still beating after 25 years, or so it goes. "immortal" in terms of your average chicken's usual lifespan.
But now? It seems the story may have been a scam, and some consider the scientist to be discredited.
Unknown at this juncture, if he was successful or not. Lots of idiotic "woo" stories surrounding that tale, though, on the "benefits" of various bullshit "health" schemes.
Interesting. Heinlein has been one of my favorites since I was a boy.

I am not a tissue culture expert and am a little confused on points surrounding the controversy of the chicken heart experiment. Cells can only divide through so many generations and there are numerous issues that have to be addressed in tissue culture to maintain the pure cultures. Looks like another subject for further reading. So much to learn so little time.

About the only thing I found that is considered immortal is the HeLa cells that are often contaminants in human tissue culture. This has been a problem in the past prior to confirmation that HeLa was a contaminant and appears to have mitigated confusion in the literature.

Atwood isn't typically a science fiction author, but the book I mentioned addresses the establishment of chloroplasts and chlorophyll in an animal. Most of the science fiction therein, is less the fantastical type and more of a speculative extension of existing technology. It would fall in the hard science fiction category. I don't know about green meat, but humans have a history of accepting far worse as OK. It might take time to establish, but once it has been, fortunes could be made. The marketing guys can figure out how to get people to put it on their plates. Had a pet rock as a child.

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#1749 Aug 17, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>... The left needs lies because the truth isn't on their side......
First, you would need to show who the "left" are. Then, you would need to show that all such people are always liars, on every topic, and that the truth is always and only "with" the people who are not on the "left".

How are you going to do that?

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#1750 Aug 17, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>^^^These two statements are untrue, I've never professed my faith in God or claimed evolution is untrue. The left needs lies because the truth isn't on their side. Also note the rejection of the argument in favor of discrediting and defamaing political opponents.
Shaddap you stupid creationist f*ck. We know your game.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#1751 Aug 17, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Interesting. Heinlein has been one of my favorites since I was a boy.
I am not a tissue culture expert and am a little confused on points surrounding the controversy of the chicken heart experiment. Cells can only divide through so many generations and there are numerous issues that have to be addressed in tissue culture to maintain the pure cultures. Looks like another subject for further reading. So much to learn so little time.
About the only thing I found that is considered immortal is the HeLa cells that are often contaminants in human tissue culture. This has been a problem in the past prior to confirmation that HeLa was a contaminant and appears to have mitigated confusion in the literature.
Atwood isn't typically a science fiction author, but the book I mentioned addresses the establishment of chloroplasts and chlorophyll in an animal. Most of the science fiction therein, is less the fantastical type and more of a speculative extension of existing technology. It would fall in the hard science fiction category. I don't know about green meat, but humans have a history of accepting far worse as OK. It might take time to establish, but once it has been, fortunes could be made. The marketing guys can figure out how to get people to put it on their plates. Had a pet rock as a child.
Back to green meat.

Yes, humans have become used to eating a variety of things, so I expect "vat grown" meat to be one of them in the future--even if it is green from chlorophyll.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#1752 Aug 17, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me ask you something Bob. Are you homosexual? If so or not the question is; If a child, is raised by a same sex couple man & man raising a boy or a woman & woman raising a girl or either raising either, which the parents will show thier affection in front of that child. Do you think that child, when grown, will tend to base his sexual preferences based on how and what they saw as they were raised?
Using your example, lets change the parents to an opposite sex couple. If they openly display affection are their children more or less likely to become straight?

When I see that question I always see that the person asking has forgotten that nearly every gay and lesbian was raised in heterosexual households.

Nature or nurture?

Either way heterosexauls are the cause!

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#1753 Aug 17, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Really?? Hmmmmmm.
There is no simple, single cause for sexual orientation that has been conclusively demonstrated, but scientists theorize that it is caused by a combination of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences,with biological factors involving a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_orientati...
Nature or nurture being gay still goes back to having heterosexual parents!

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#1754 Aug 17, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Last reply before I go to bed. I won't vote either for it or against it for again it is not up to me whether what they do is right or wrong or to tell them what to do to be happy.
Since you have let us know you really don't care about society and won't bother to vote, m(which is actually a no vote in most of these cases) there is no reason for us to pay any more attention to you.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#1755 Aug 17, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
I have a hard time believing you.
But once again logic has failed you. By not supporting it you are at the very least allowing others to try to stop them from marrying the one that they love.
Why can't you answer tough questions honestly? Is it because your bias will show through?
IMO he's wimping out because he knows he can't justify his apathy or his bigotry.

He can dress it up in his highest fashion but it's still like trying to find the clean end of a turd.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#1756 Aug 17, 2013
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>Using your example, lets change the parents to an opposite sex couple. If they openly display affection are their children more or less likely to become straight?
When I see that question I always see that the person asking has forgotten that nearly every gay and lesbian was raised in heterosexual households.

Nature or nurture?

Either way heterosexauls are the cause!
Yeppers.... the claim of "it's environmental growing up" is boooogus.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#1757 Aug 17, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeppers.... the claim of "it's environmental growing up" is boooogus.
When it comes to the question of marriage for gays and lesbians why does it even matter what causes it?

Do we outlaw males who carry the gene for early onset Alzheimer's disease from marriage?
The women who carry Duchenne muscular dystrophy; a form of muscular dystrophy that worsens quickly.... Because of the way the disease is inherited, boys are affected, not girls...

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/artic...

Or do we ban SSM because being gay is a Choice?

Like banning Presbyterian or Unitarian Universalist marriages because RELIGION is a CHOICE?

Atheism's main focus is rational thought. I have no problem with those who question my "irrational" belief in God. And I see no reason to challenge their belief because it is rational.

This thread is about a rational way to view being gay or lesbian.

Whether theological or factual logic, we exist, therefore there IS A PURPOSE FOR GAYS AND LESBIANS.

perhaps none of us know that that true purpose is. B u6t hen how many of us know our own true purpose?

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