Israel means 'struggle with God'

May 30, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Jewish Journal

Years ago, a Muslim woman called my radio show and asked me why I was not a Muslim. She asked this question with complete sincerity, and I answered her with equal sincerity.

The name of her religion, I told her, is Islam, which in Arabic means submission (to God). The name of the Jewish people is Israel, which in Hebrew means struggle with God. I’d rather struggle with God, I said, than only submit to God ...
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“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

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#1
May 30, 2012
 

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from The Jewish Journal:

"It is difficult to overstate the importance of this Jewish concept. For one thing, it enabled Jews to believe in the importance of reason — God Himself could be challenged on the basis of reason and morality; one does not have to suspend reason to be a believing Jew ..."

... but one must suspend reason to be a believing muslim.

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#5
May 30, 2012
 

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Why are the mods deleting relevant posts of facts?

“Google Operation Northwoods”

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#6
May 30, 2012
 

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Joe DeCaro wrote:
from The Jewish Journal:
"It is difficult to overstate the importance of this Jewish concept. For one thing, it enabled Jews to believe in the importance of reason — God Himself could be challenged on the basis of reason and morality; one does not have to suspend reason to be a believing Jew ..."
... but one must suspend reason to be a believing muslim.
Read here Joe
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/TRQ...

“Google Operation Northwoods”

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#7
May 31, 2012
 

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What's the matter Joe? Here's your chance to show me what you're made of... Silly putty I imagine lol

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

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#8
May 31, 2012
 

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Timesten wrote:
What's the matter Joe?...
Tom, you're the one with "issues".
Timesten wrote:
Why are the mods deleting relevant posts of facts?
I could only imagine the anti-Semetic "facts" you posted.

Thank you, Topix mods.

“Google Operation Northwoods”

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#9
May 31, 2012
 

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Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Tom, you're the one with "issues".
<quoted text>
I could only imagine the anti-Semetic "facts" you posted.
Thank you, Topix mods.
Gee you must've missed this huh?
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-J8LNcVNKz2...
.
So conveniently you missed it huh Joe?
QUITTNER

Toronto, Canada

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#10
May 31, 2012
 

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3 pm, Thursday, May 31, 2012:
RE: Israel means 'struggle with God'
..... Anyone can invent stories about God, including that someone or some group struggled with God at one time. Wanna invent more stories about God?
..... As for Islam meaning submission to God, then how come members of Islam submit to a book, or to the teachings of interpreters of a book, or to what they are told a prophet wanted, but they do NOT submit to God?

“Google Operation Northwoods”

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#11
May 31, 2012
 

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QUITTNER wrote:
3 pm, Thursday, May 31, 2012:
RE: Israel means 'struggle with God'
..... Anyone can invent stories about God, including that someone or some group struggled with God at one time. Wanna invent more stories about God?
..... As for Islam meaning submission to God, then how come members of Islam submit to a book, or to the teachings of interpreters of a book, or to what they are told a prophet wanted, but they do NOT submit to God?
and what do you Xtians do, Danny boy?
You hypocritize the world with your hypocritical ways.
Tia

Kansas City, MO

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#12
Jun 1, 2012
 
Moses: You have been rebellious against YHWH while I am still alive, how much more rebellious will you be after my death?(Deut 31:7)

Asaph: They should keep His commandments and not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation (Ps 78:8)

God to Isaiah: This is a rebellious people who refuse to listen to the Torah of YHWH (Isa 30:9)

God to Ezekiel: I am sending you to the children of Israel, to a rebellious nation (Ezek 2:3)

Paul: Among the circumcised, they are many who are rebellious/disobedient/insubor dinate (Titus 1:10)
Tia

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Quran also indicate that Jews are inherently REBELLIOUS,
when Moses received the Torah (the Law), those with him said "We hear and we disobey" (Quran 2:93)
Yisra-El (one who struggles with God)- the title fits their nature

when Muhammad was given the Quran, those with him said "We hear and we obey" (Quran 2:285) hence
Yishma-El (one who hears God)

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#14
Jun 1, 2012
 

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Tia wrote:
Quran also indicate that Jews are inherently REBELLIOUS,
when Moses received the Torah (the Law), those with him said "We hear and we disobey" (Quran 2:93)
Yisra-El (one who struggles with God)- the title fits their nature
when Muhammad was given the Quran, those with him said "We hear and we obey" (Quran 2:285) hence
Yishma-El (one who hears God)
I actually don't see too much peace in the Muslim world, do you? I mean there are, I'm sure, peaceful people among many religions and walks of life, but from what I'm hearing, Syria is having quite a bit of trouble amongst themselves.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#15
Jun 1, 2012
 
The one who wrestled with god.
Ykb found in Egypt and ugarit.
Frankly you need to take the meaning of the two names. yaqub:great one those with soul father
Or going by the hieroglyphic direct translation:
Those that speak badly of our people.
Or ref. yakub: he that bends like a reed -comparison- EL.(the one with combined qualities of all being)
From now on your name will be bundle of reeds.
G-ds idea of a joke.

But the difference is that their is no ban on questioning and reasoning.

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#16
Jun 1, 2012
 

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Regarding the comment above taken from the Jewish Journal, I struggle all the time. But I submit to what I think is right, and I don't submit to what I think is against God.
Less government

Jakarta, Indonesia

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#17
Jun 1, 2012
 

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'struggle with God' hmmmm wrestling, boxing, taekwondo, playing football with God? That sound fun!

It's better than submit

““You must not lose faith ”

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#18
Jun 1, 2012
 
Bundle of reeds also has a connection with writing and reading. Or with locked in knowledge, or gained knowledge now enclosed in a name.
YHVH is also associated with the art of writing and reading.
Which might be a reason for it's early appearance in the quraan also.
In the tanakh all names have meaning and thus lend extra definition and depth to the stories.
G-d is not a perfect being but also evolves along.
Well i destroyed humanity once, i promise i won't do that again. Being and becoming. And is very close knit to his people. A minimum law is imposed.
But none say that it's not allowed to look for exceptions if the ruling would be to harsh.
Evolving is in the name.
But also shared responsibility, so that makes people that reflection of g-d. How else could we find or form any understanding of g-d.
Submit is linguistically derived from islam. The same root used thus.
But struggle would be found in the lesser and greater 'jihad'.

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#19
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"G-d is not a perfect being but also evolves along."

You must've missed this verse huh?
Psalm 18:30
This God—how perfect are his deeds! How dependable his words! He is like a shield for all who seek his protection.
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Deuteronomy 32:4
The Lord is your mighty defender, perfect and just in all his ways; Your God is faithful and true; he does what is right and fair.
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2 Samuel 22:26
O Lord, you are faithful to those who are faithful to you, and completely good to those who are perfect.
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Deuteronomy 10:17
The Lord your God is supreme over all gods and over all powers. He is great and mighty, and he is to be obeyed. He does not show partiality, and he does not accept bribes.
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Deuteronomy 32:39
I, and I alone, am God; no other god is real. I kill and I give life, I wound and I heal, and no one can oppose what I do.
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1 Samuel 16:15
His servants said to him, We know that an evil spirit sent by God is tormenting you.
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Evil sent by God....Hmmmmm

““You must not lose faith ”

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#20
Jun 1, 2012
 
In all those verses yahweh is tried/tested. i think you have to read with more understanding as to why the law as in torah was so important:
Psalm 19:7,“The Torah of YHWH is perfect, converting the soul.” In this verse the word
for “converting” is the Hebrew phrase “shuv” which means to “turn, return, refresh, restore, and reverse.”[ also redemption and atonement can be understood in that same way as in turning someone away from doing the wrong thing, or as community taking that responsibility.]

When YHWH revealed the Ten Commandments He was in essence establishing the basic requirements of
mankind that can either redeem a person or condemn them as guilty before YHWH. The Torah was given
to set the standard for righteous living.“I had not known sin but by the law,” Romans 7:7. The Torah itself
is not sinful but acts as an agent to reveal a person's sin. A person sins when they disobey the words of the
Bible.“Sin is transgression of the law / Torah,”

We see g-d and than people acting as judges applying the law and finding no fault, but they can have trouble understanding why a certain law was instated or how to interprete it.
One is not supposed to take away from the law or change it, but entirely free to add or find circumstances that make for a graver judgement or a lighter judgement, or to even state that verses would cancel each other out.
Like a constitution thus or a federal law, super-lex if you will.
Stories are there to make clear what consequences action can have.
During the Jehudite state forming priest went a bit overboard and some will question (and none forbids them) if those verses where truly from g-d.

Try and put a word edge-wise about jesus sayings or mohahmeds utterances and all hell breaks loose.
because they are indeed based on reading that god is perfect and not understanding that The Law is a main component in that statement.
Elohim-judges forming ONE that are then redevided again. Elohim still often occurs always in the use of judges. Several other words point in that similar direction.

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#21
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Well why don't you tell G-d he's imperfect and we'll see what he says about that.
It is you who is not perfect.

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.
Deuteronomy 32:3-5 (in Context) Deuteronomy 32 (Whole Chapter)
2 Samuel 22:31
“As for God, his way is perfect: The LORD’s word is flawless; he shields all who take refuge in him.
2 Samuel 22:30-32 (in Context) 2 Samuel 22 (Whole Chapter)
Job 36:4
Be assured that my words are not false; one who has perfect knowledge is with you.
Job 36:3-5 (in Context) Job 36 (Whole Chapter)
Job 37:16
Do you know how the clouds hang poised, those wonders of him who has perfect knowledge?
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Psalm 18:30
As for God, his way is perfect: The LORD’s word is flawless; he shields all who take refuge in him.
.l
Psalm 19:7
The law of the LORD is perfect, refreshing the soul. The statutes of the LORD are trustworthy, making wise the simple.
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Psalm 50:2
From Zion, perfect in beauty, God shines forth
.
Matthew 5:48
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

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#22
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Oh and the above statements are from your books, excluding the one from Matthew.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#23
Jun 1, 2012
 
Good: adding to perfection
bad: taking away from perfection.
Faith (in the law ) thus working is everlasting life.
Total good or perfection is a dream-vision.

Just as many people will quote verses that will tell us of the vengefull god.

The question we must always ask is whether the judgement (attributed to an act of god) was justified. How do we think about it and how does that impact on our own behaviour and what would we decide differently.
Perfect would mean that it is written and supersedes and we do not change that, the birthstone is perfect etc.
They thus are important and should also not be taken away or their meaning changed, or change owners etc..

Father would be an aramaic term that does not really fit a god that just incorporated all, and tells us that all is important and should be taken care of.

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