Arkansas Society of Freethinkers Denies "War on Christmas" Charge

Dec 5, 2012 | Posted by: Hedonist | Full story: arkansasmatters.com

The Arkansas Society of Freethinkers today rejected the claim that it is making war on Christmas.

"Those who stand up for the rights of children to be free from coercion aren't making war either on religion or Christmas," said ASF spokesperson LeeWood Thomas. "Rather, this is a case of a church forming an alliance with local government to violate religious freedom. So we in the Arkansas Society of Freethinkers feel compelled to take a stand on behalf of the parents under the U.S. Constitution."

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Gluteus Maximus

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#42
Dec 6, 2012
 

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Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
The secular pieces are already there: Santa Claus, gift exchanges, food-gorging, decorated pine trees, Yule logs...
Just like the ancients who celebrated winter solstice as the time when the Sun stopped its southward drop and began to climb back into the northern sky, there are some universal ideas that also come to mind as we all approach the end of one year and the beginning of another.
We still celebrate family and togetherness. Even we heathens can appreciate peace on Earth and goodwill toward men, even though most Christians don't live it.
The operative word being secular. You want to celebrate the end of the year with family and friends, fine with me. But understand that you are not celebrating "Christ's Mass".
Canon

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#43
Dec 6, 2012
 

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It's time the majority get protection from the minority. The minority always wins in these cases. Outrageous!!

There IS NO SUCH THING AS SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE anyway. The government is suppose to STAY OUT of the church.

There is freedom OF religion, NOT freedom FROM religion.

Good greif, they even held church services in the capital building in the beginning of this country.

Look at the scriptures inscribed into the BUILDINGS in DC....

Yes the majority needs protection from the minority!!!
EdSed

Wishaw, UK

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#44
Dec 6, 2012
 
Canon wrote:
...
There IS NO SUCH THING AS SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE anyway. The government is suppose to STAY OUT of the church.
There is freedom OF religion, NOT freedom FROM religion.
...
There are your problems. The principle of seperation of Church and State is important for a peaceful and united political community. And freedom from religion is every bit as important as freedom of religion.

Religion = superstition
It is divisive, outdated and more trouble than it's worth
Canon

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#45
Dec 6, 2012
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Well here's an atheist about to destroy you factually. Messianic Jews celebrate Christmas?
http://www.bethadonai.com/FAQ_celebrate_chris...
Care to try again?
Useless point on your part to begin with as messianic Jews are few and far between and sorry they do not celebrate Christmas or Easter.
Let the kids have a nice fun secular Christmas and keep your horsesht zombie Jew out of it.
<quoted text>
You can find any article to support any pet position you have..so big whoop!.....isn't the internet great?
Canon

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#46
Dec 6, 2012
 

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EdSed wrote:
<quoted text>There are your problems. The principle of seperation of Church and State is important for a peaceful and united political community. And freedom from religion is every bit as important as freedom of religion.
Religion = superstition
It is divisive, outdated and more trouble than it's worth
There cannot be freedom from religion for even atheisism is a religion.... interesting huh?

“Reason's Greetings!”

Since: Feb 11

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#47
Dec 6, 2012
 
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
I never once called you a liar. Did you fail your high school English class as well as History?
<quoted text>
No, it wasn't "influenced" by pagan festivals. It was a conscious action taken by the Church to redeem the winter solstice for Christ. You should try reading some real history. I bet you'd learn something.
<quoted text>
Yeah? Well, BFD. We're talking about Christmas here, not Roman mythology. Do try to stay on point.
<quoted text>
The Puritans comprised only a very small fraction of Christians, including those who were in America during the colonial period. Whatever their views may have been, they certainly didn't speak for Christianity as a whole, nor America for that matter. On top of that, there is no evidence to support your claim.
<quoted text>
Repeating the same b.s. won't make it come true. Put down your atheist revisionist history book and pick up a credible historical account that doesn't have an agenda.
<quoted text>
Again, you're repeating a false claim. It adds no credibility. But since you brought up Congress, every session has always began with a prayer. The Liberty Bell is inscribed with a Bible verse. The Ten Commandments are hanging on the wall in the Supreme Court building in DC. And on and on.
Religion is woven deeply into the fabric of our nation. I realize you don't like it, but that's just too damn bad. America is not going to rewrite its history just to suit a very small handful of malcontents.
Besides, this issue is about occurrences in the state of Arkansas. It doesn't have a damn thing to do with Atlanta, GA. Why don't you mind your own damn business?
The Puritans left a theocracy, apparently not learning from it, because they proceeded to set up their own theocracy. Eventually they failed, and today we fortunately live with a secular govenment to the dismay of many of you. You are free to follow any cult you wish, free to worshp any myth you prefer, and free to decorate your OWN homes with any visual pollution pertaining to those myths and cults, as long as you don't violate any laws. However, you have no right, morally or legally, to violate the law of the land and/or forcing your brand of woo-woo on others.

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#48
Dec 6, 2012
 

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Canon wrote:
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There cannot be freedom from religion for even atheisism is a religion.... interesting huh?
Well, it didn't take long for someone to lie about atheism. You must be a xtian.
Canon

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#49
Dec 6, 2012
 
Besides....the children had the OPTION of going....none had to go that did not want to...what a shame that ALL have to suffer because ONE wanted to decide for ALL. A terrible thing.
EdSed

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#50
Dec 6, 2012
 
Canon wrote:
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There cannot be freedom from religion for even atheisism is a religion.... interesting huh?
Atheism is disbelief in god...
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist

I don't believe in any god and I'm not religious - a typical atheist, or so it seems to me.

http://www.godchecker.com/

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#51
Dec 6, 2012
 
guest wrote:
<quoted text>

This is an issue for the people of the state of Arkansas, not Georgia. It doesnít affect you in any manner whatsoever.
You appear to be a malcontent looking for any reason to whine like a little bitch about things you donít like. Take some good advice, shove a sugar tit in your mouth and STFU. Crybaby.
Unfortunately we see these violations of the law, i.e. concerning the separation of state and religion, occuring everywhere. It's the civic duty of all citizens to speak up whenever or whereever these blatant attempts to indoctrinate children into the unwanted cults and myths occur.
Canon

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#52
Dec 6, 2012
 
MrDesoto1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, it didn't take long for someone to lie about atheism. You must be a xtian.
First off even if I misunderstood, how mean of you to accuse of me of a lie....that says a lot about you. Shameful. If you believe someone to be wrong, simply state it.

.....BUT the government defines it as religion...NOT ME!! So you can call the government a liar...which is another topic all together, Ha!

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#53
Dec 6, 2012
 
Canon wrote:
Besides....the children had the OPTION of going....none had to go that did not want to...what a shame that ALL have to suffer because ONE wanted to decide for ALL. A terrible thing.
From the story:
"Merely allowing a child to opt out of a school-sponsored religious activity during the winter holidays is no solution," said Anne Orsi, a Little Rock attorney and ASF vice president. "Such a situation exposes the children of minority faiths and outlooks to majority pressure and victimization. Thus the religious rights of children are being violated along with their right to privacy."

Your religion is psychologally harmful and divisive, especially for young children.

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#54
Dec 6, 2012
 
Canon wrote:
It's time the majority get protection from the minority. The minority always wins in these cases. Outrageous!!
There IS NO SUCH THING AS SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE anyway. The government is suppose to STAY OUT of the church.
There is freedom OF religion, NOT freedom FROM religion.
Good greif, they even held church services in the capital building in the beginning of this country.
Look at the scriptures inscribed into the BUILDINGS in DC....
Yes the majority needs protection from the minority!!!
The founding fathers wrote the Bill of Rights to protect the minority from the majority. Futhermore:

"Our Constitution was designed to protect majority and minority rights by preventing any one faction from having too much power and undermining the peopleís sovereignty. This is achieved by holding citizen and representative to the same law."

http://www.basicsproject.org/constitutional_l...

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#55
Dec 6, 2012
 
Canon wrote:
<quoted text>
First off even if I misunderstood, how mean of you to accuse of me of a lie....that says a lot about you. Shameful. If you believe someone to be wrong, simply state it.
.....BUT the government defines it as religion...NOT ME!! So you can call the government a liar...which is another topic all together, Ha!
Nice try! But, we've heard all of these myths about atheism before.

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Canon wrote:
<quoted text>
First off even if I misunderstood, how mean of you to accuse of me of a lie....that says a lot about you. Shameful. If you believe someone to be wrong, simply state it.
.....BUT the government defines it as religion...NOT ME!! So you can call the government a liar...which is another topic all together, Ha!
"Is atheism a religion or cult?
No. Atheism is not a belief system it is the lack of belief in a particular belief system: god(s). It has no rituals, no doctrine, nothing to worship and no political affiliation. A popular example is that calling atheism a religion is like calling not-collecting-stamps a hobby, or calling abstinence a sex position. This would also be akin to saying that a Christian who does not believe in the Greek god Zeus belongs to a religion that doesnít worship Zeus."

http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/An-atheist-FAQ...

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#57
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Canon wrote:
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There cannot be freedom from religion for even atheisism is a religion.... interesting huh?
Yes there is freedom FROM religion. You even practice it.

http://atheism.about.com/od/churchstatemyths/...

Response:
This claim is common, but it rests on a misunderstanding of what real freedom of religion entails. The most important thing to remember is that freedom of religion, if it is going to apply to everyone, also requires freedom from religion. Why is that? You do not truly have the freedom to practice your religious beliefs if you are also required to adhere to any of the religious beliefs or rules of other religions.

As an obvious example, could we really say that Jews and Muslims would have freedom of religion if they were required to show same respect to images of Jesus that Christians have? Would Christians and Muslims really have freedom of their religion if they were required to wear yarmulkes? Would Christians and Jews have freedom of religion if they were required to adhere to Muslim dietary restrictions?

Simply pointing out that people have the freedom to pray however they wish is not enough. Forcing people to accept some particular idea or adhere to behavioral standards from someone elseís religion means that their religious freedom is being infringed upon.

Freedom from religion does not mean, as some mistakenly seem to claim, being free from seeing religion in society. No one has the right not to see churches, religious expression, and other examples of religious belief in our nation ó and those who advocate freedom of religion do not claim otherwise.

What freedom from religion does mean, however, is the freedom from the rules and dogmas of other peopleís religious beliefs so that we can be free to follow the demands of our own conscience, whether they take a religious form or not. Thus, we have both freedom of religion and freedom from religion because they are two sides of the same coin.

Interestingly, the misunderstandings here can be found in many other myths, misconceptions and misunderstandings as well. Many people donít realize ó or donít care ó that real religious liberty must exist for everyone, not just for themselves. Itís no coincidence that people who object to the principle of ďfreedom from religionĒ are adherents of religious groups whose doctrines or standards would be the ones enforced by the state.

Since they already voluntarily accept these doctrines or standards, they donít expect to experience any conflicts with state enforcement or endorsement. What we have, then, is a failure of moral imagination: these people are unable to really imagine themselves in the shoes of religious minorities who donít voluntarily accept these doctrines or standards and, hence, experience an infringement on their religious liberties through state enforcement or endorsement.

That, or they simply donít care what religious minorities experience because they think they have the One True Religion.

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#58
Dec 6, 2012
 

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Canon wrote:
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You can find any article to support any pet position you have..so big whoop!.....isn't the internet great?
Yes, the internet is great. It provides quick and easy access to the Facts the you myth followers detest.
guest

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#59
Dec 6, 2012
 
Hedonist wrote:
Did you not read the article we are all commenting on in this thread. It's all about people in Arkansas.
That's precisely my point. It's in regards to an elementary school in Arkansas. It doesn't have a damn thing to do with where you live in Atlanta, GA.

You don't have a dog in the fight. All you're here for is to whine like a little bitch.
guest

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#60
Dec 6, 2012
 
EdSed wrote:
The principle of seperation of Church and State is important for a peaceful and united political community.
And do you have separation of Church and state in the UK, or is the Queen the Supreme Governor of the Church of England? Thought so.
Canon

Texarkana, TX

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#61
Dec 6, 2012
 

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MrDesoto1 wrote:
<quoted text>
From the story:
"Merely allowing a child to opt out of a school-sponsored religious activity during the winter holidays is no solution," said Anne Orsi, a Little Rock attorney and ASF vice president. "Such a situation exposes the children of minority faiths and outlooks to majority pressure and victimization. Thus the religious rights of children are being violated along with their right to privacy."
Your religion is psychologally harmful and divisive, especially for young children.
Stop spewing hatred. This is just an avenue for you to do so. Keep your hatred to yourself and stop spreading it around. Your religion of "hatred" is NOT welcome.

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