Arkansas Society of Freethinkers Denies "War on Christmas" Charge

Dec 5, 2012 Full story: arkansasmatters.com 233

The Arkansas Society of Freethinkers today rejected the claim that it is making war on Christmas.

"Those who stand up for the rights of children to be free from coercion aren't making war either on religion or Christmas," said ASF spokesperson LeeWood Thomas. "Rather, this is a case of a church forming an alliance with local government to violate religious freedom. So we in the Arkansas Society of Freethinkers feel compelled to take a stand on behalf of the parents under the U.S. Constitution."

Full Story

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#22 Dec 6, 2012
Gluteus Maximus wrote:
<quoted text>
So, you think a 30-minute play based on a TV show that your kids will probably watch anyway amounts to the state TEACHING a religion?? You atheism must be very weak if it can't overcome something as innoucuous as Charlie Brown.
So you think you should be the one to decide that for everybody's children.

There are plenty of ways to celebrate Christmas without any particular religious content.
guest

United States

#23 Dec 6, 2012
Hedonist wrote:
I noticed that you repeatedly called me a liar
I never once called you a liar. Did you fail your high school English class as well as History?
The first mention of December 25 as the birth date of Jesus occurred in A.D. 336 in an early Roman calendar. The celebration of this day as Jesus' birth date was probably influenced by pagan festivals held at that time.
No, it wasn't "influenced" by pagan festivals. It was a conscious action taken by the Church to redeem the winter solstice for Christ. You should try reading some real history. I bet you'd learn something.
The ancient Romans held year-end celebrations to honor Saturn, their harvest god; and Mithras, the god of light...
Yeah? Well, BFD. We're talking about Christmas here, not Roman mythology. Do try to stay on point.
The Puritans of Massachusetts Bay frowned on Christmas revelry
The Puritans comprised only a very small fraction of Christians, including those who were in America during the colonial period. Whatever their views may have been, they certainly didn't speak for Christianity as a whole, nor America for that matter. On top of that, there is no evidence to support your claim.
A law in the colony barred anyone from taking the day off work, feasting or engaging in other celebrations on Christmas, under penalty of a five-shilling fine. The law was repealed in 1681, but Christmas celebrations remained unpopular in New England and other colonies for many years.
Repeating the same b.s. won't make it come true. Put down your atheist revisionist history book and pick up a credible historical account that doesn't have an agenda.
Congress did not begin adjourning on Christmas Day until 1856.
Again, you're repeating a false claim. It adds no credibility. But since you brought up Congress, every session has always began with a prayer. The Liberty Bell is inscribed with a Bible verse. The Ten Commandments are hanging on the wall in the Supreme Court building in DC. And on and on.

Religion is woven deeply into the fabric of our nation. I realize you don't like it, but that's just too damn bad. America is not going to rewrite its history just to suit a very small handful of malcontents.

Besides, this issue is about occurrences in the state of Arkansas. It doesn't have a damn thing to do with Atlanta, GA. Why don't you mind your own damn business?

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#24 Dec 6, 2012
Exactly and well said good sir.
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
So you think you should be the one to decide that for everybody's children.
There are plenty of ways to celebrate Christmas without any particular religious content.
guest

United States

#25 Dec 6, 2012
Hedonist wrote:
Don't you think Jews have had enough of you cramming Christmas down their children's throats too?
Messianic Jews celebrate Christmas. Gee, you don't know much about religion either, do you?

I thought you atheists were supposed to be so much more intellectual than everyone else. I'm not seeing it.
guest

United States

#26 Dec 6, 2012
Hedonist wrote:
We're talking about impressionable young school children whose reasoning skills have yet to mature.
So who appointed you as guardian of impressionable young school children?

And why are you more worried about a Christmas play at school than teaching those "impressionalbe young school children" that homosexual activity is just another viable lifestyle, or letting them know where they can get contraceptives and abortions without their parents' knowledge or consent, or teaching them how to stretch a condom over a banana in under 4 seconds?

Ah, the hypocrisy of the malcontents in our society knows no bounds.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#27 Dec 6, 2012
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
I never once called you a liar. Did you fail your high school English class as well as History?
You said "That's a denial of historical fact... that's false... You're just making stuff up". Call it what you want.
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it wasn't "influenced" by pagan festivals. It was a conscious action taken by the Church to redeem the winter solstice for Christ. You should try reading some real history. I bet you'd learn something....
"Winter solstice" was a pagan festival also called Saturnalia, which is the basis for a lot of our modern winter pageantry. A lot of our religious symbolism comes from Mithraism.
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
The Puritans comprised only a very small fraction of Christians, including those who were in America during the colonial period. Whatever their views may have been, they certainly didn't speak for Christianity as a whole, nor America for that matter. On top of that, there is no evidence to support your claim.
...
"The Puritan community found no Scriptural justification for celebrating Christmas, and associated such celebrations with paganism and idolatry...." ~ Wikipedia, try reading some of their references
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
Repeating the same b.s. won't make it come true. Put down your atheist revisionist history book and pick up a credible historical account that doesn't have an agenda.
You should take your own advise BEFORE you post again and display your abject lack of education.
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
... Congress, every session has always began with a prayer...
"Is the appointment of Chaplains to the two Houses of Congress consistent with the Constitution, and with the pure principle of religious freedom? In strictness the answer on both points must be in the negative. The Constitution of the U S forbids everything like an establishment of a national religion. The law appointing Chaplains establishes a religious worship for the national representatives, to be performed by Ministers of religion, elected by a majority of them, and these are to be paid out of the national taxes. Does this not involve the principle of a national establishment?" ~ James Madison,
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
...Religion is woven deeply into the fabric of our nation. I realize you don't like it, but that's just too damn bad. America is not going to rewrite its history just to suit a very small handful of malcontents.
Please learn some real history. The U.S. Constitution is most notable as the very first time a government's right to govern was NOT declared to be by divine fiat. Our government's right to govern comes from "WE THE PEOPLE".

June 7, 1797 -“The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion”~ unanimously approved by the Senate and signed by President John Adams
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
Besides, this issue is about occurrences in the state of Arkansas. It doesn't have a damn thing to do with Atlanta, GA. Why don't you mind your own damn business?
Equal Protection clause of the 14th Amendment.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#28 Dec 6, 2012
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
So who appointed you as guardian of impressionable young school children?...
As I said -- There are plenty of ways to celebrate Christmas without any particular religious content.

Why must you insist that religious instruction be included?

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#29 Dec 6, 2012
Well here's an atheist about to destroy you factually. Messianic Jews celebrate Christmas?


http://www.bethadonai.com/FAQ_celebrate_chris...

Care to try again?

Useless point on your part to begin with as messianic Jews are few and far between and sorry they do not celebrate Christmas or Easter.

Let the kids have a nice fun secular Christmas and keep your horsesht zombie Jew out of it.
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
Messianic Jews celebrate Christmas. Gee, you don't know much about religion either, do you?
I thought you atheists were supposed to be so much more intellectual than everyone else. I'm not seeing it.
Gluteus Maximus

Bethpage, NY

#30 Dec 6, 2012
Givemeliberty wrote:
Exactly and well said good sir.
<quoted text>
Exactly how does one celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ without acknowledging the birth of Jesus Christ?
Gluteus Maximus

Bethpage, NY

#31 Dec 6, 2012
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
As I said -- There are plenty of ways to celebrate Christmas without any particular religious content.
Why must you insist that religious instruction be included?
Christmas:(Old English: Cr&#299;stesmæsse, meaning "Christ's Mass") is an annual commemoration of the birth of Jesus Christ.

Christmas: the annual festival of the Christian church commemorating the birth of Jesus.

Christmas: a Christian feast on December 25 or among some Eastern Orthodox Christians on January 7 that commemorates the birth of Christ.
Gluteus Maximus

Bethpage, NY

#32 Dec 6, 2012
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
As I said -- There are plenty of ways to celebrate Christmas without any particular religious content.
Why must you insist that religious instruction be included?
I would be FASCINATED to know how one "celebrates Christmas without any particular religious content".

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#33 Dec 6, 2012
The Christians just stole it from the Mithra worshippers anyways. Keep it secular and fun.
Gluteus Maximus wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly how does one celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ without acknowledging the birth of Jesus Christ?
guest

United States

#34 Dec 6, 2012
Hedonist wrote:
You said "That's a denial of historical fact... that's false... You're just making stuff up". Call it what you want.
I did. I called it denial, false, and making stuff up. I never called you a liar. If you’re butt hurt over having your bluff called, too damn bad.
A lot of our religious symbolism comes from Mithraism.
Not ture, but we're talking about Christmas. Stay on point.
"The Puritan community found no Scriptural justification for celebrating Christmas, and associated such celebrations with paganism and idolatry...." ~ Wikipedia, try reading some of their references
Wikipedia?? LOL! No wonder you’re so ignorant. Try reading some real source material.
"Is the appointment of Chaplains to the two Houses of Congress consistent with the Constitution…
That’s a false quote of Madison created by revisionist historians who can’t stand the rich religious heritage we have in this country. Again, try reading some real source material. Your ignorance is embarrassing.
Our government's right to govern comes from "WE THE PEOPLE".
I never claimed otherwise. Now, why do you keep running away from the issue at hand? Try a little harder to stay on point.
Equal Protection clause of the 14th Amendment.
This is an issue for the people of the state of Arkansas, not Georgia. It doesn’t affect you in any manner whatsoever.

You appear to be a malcontent looking for any reason to whine like a little bitch about things you don’t like. Take some good advice, shove a sugar tit in your mouth and STFU. Crybaby.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#35 Dec 6, 2012
Winter Solstice: 21 December-22 December - midwinter

Soyal: 21 December - Zuni and Hopi

Yalda: 21 December - The turning point, Winter Solstice. Celebrating the victory of light and goodness over darkness and evil. According to Persian mythology, Mithra was born at dawn on the 22nd of December to a virgin mother. He symbolizes light, truth, goodness, strength, and friendship. Herodotus reports that this was the most important holiday of the year for contemporary Persians. In modern times Persians celebrate Yalda by staying up late or all night, a practice known as Shab Chera meaning 'night gazing'. Fruits and nuts are eaten, especially pomegranates and watermelons, whose red color invokes the crimson hues of dawn and symbolize Mithra.

M&#333;draniht: or Mothers' Night, the Saxon winter solstice festival.

Saturnalia: the Roman winter solstice festival

Pancha Ganapati: Five-day festival in honor of Lord Ganesha. December 21–25.

Dies Natalis Solis Invicti (Day of the birth of the Unconquered Sun): late Roman Empire - 25 December
Christmas: 25 December

Twelve Days of Christmas: 25 December through 6 January

Yule: Pagan winter festival that was celebrated by the historical Germanic people from late December to early January.

Anastasia of Sirmium Feast Day: 25 December

Malkh: 25 December

Boxing Day: 26 December - Gift-giving day (gifts in boxes, no pugilism) United Kingdom, Hong Kong, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and some other Commonwealth nations

Kwanzaa: 26 December - 1 January - Pan-African festival celebrated in North America
guest

United States

#36 Dec 6, 2012
Hedonist wrote:
Why must you insist that religious instruction be included?
I'm not. But that doesn't have anything to do with you pissing and moaning about something in another state that doesn't affect you one little bit.

You don't even have a dog in the fight. Mind your own damn business and let the people of Arkansas worry about theirs.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#37 Dec 6, 2012
Gluteus Maximus wrote:
<quoted text>
I would be FASCINATED to know how one "celebrates Christmas without any particular religious content".
The secular pieces are already there: Santa Claus, gift exchanges, food-gorging, decorated pine trees, Yule logs...

Just like the ancients who celebrated winter solstice as the time when the Sun stopped its southward drop and began to climb back into the northern sky, there are some universal ideas that also come to mind as we all approach the end of one year and the beginning of another.

We still celebrate family and togetherness. Even we heathens can appreciate peace on Earth and goodwill toward men, even though most Christians don't live it.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#38 Dec 6, 2012
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not. But that doesn't have anything to do with you pissing and moaning about something in another state that doesn't affect you one little bit.
You don't even have a dog in the fight. Mind your own damn business and let the people of Arkansas worry about theirs.
Did you not read the article we are all commenting on in this thread. It's all about people in Arkansas.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#39 Dec 6, 2012
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
...
You appear to be a malcontent looking for any reason to whine like a little bitch about things you don’t like. Take some good advice, shove a sugar tit in your mouth and STFU. Crybaby.
And the true nature of Christianity come out. Thank you for being such a fine example of what you religion really teaches you.

“Reason's Greetings!”

Since: Feb 11

Pale Blue Dot

#40 Dec 6, 2012
Gluteus Maximus wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly how does one celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ without acknowledging the birth of Jesus Christ?
You christians do it every year through consumerism. You spend billions of dollars by shopping until not only you drop. You have also brought your religiously inspired violence to your shopping madness.
Gluteus Maximus

Bethpage, NY

#41 Dec 6, 2012
MrDesoto1 wrote:
<quoted text>
You christians do it every year through consumerism. You spend billions of dollars by shopping until not only you drop. You have also brought your religiously inspired violence to your shopping madness.
And here come the white-washings and absolutes.

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