Don't dictate beliefs

Don't dictate beliefs

There are 11176 comments on the The Star Press story from Sep 5, 2012, titled Don't dictate beliefs. In it, The Star Press reports that:

No one else can say otherwise? That is basically saying those who do "believe in God" are better? Hardly.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Star Press.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#11420 Jan 16, 2013
KJV wrote:
Why that's like a poodle breeding with retriever and claiming evolution.
If they can breed, they are the same species. if they have diverged enough that they cannot breed, then they are different species.
Play with your word species. Long before science invented the word and it's meaning, there was the definition of kinds of animals in which one kind has never changed to another kind. That would be macro evolution.
The problem with this definition is that species *do* change over geologic time. So you either have to include very different creatures under the same 'kind', or you have to realize that another definition of species is required to describe reality.

In particular, species can *split* into sub-populations that do not interbreed and can, after long time spans, look quite different. Under your definition, the two populations would be the same 'kind', but they would be considered by everyone else to be different species.

Each generation is only a 'micro-evolution' away from the previous generation. It is only a 'micro-evolution' away from ancestors a mere 10 generations back. But the difference increases over time and eventually the differences are major. This tends to take hundreds to tens of thousands of generations.

Again, a coin analogy. We start adding pennies to a pile of coins. it starts being a 'small amount' of money. no single penny changes it from a 'small amount' to a 'large amount'. Yet, after enough pennies have been added, there is a 'large amount' of money. Each addition of a penny, or even of ten pennies, is a 'micro-change'. But, those changes add up to be a 'macro-change'.

So, you have claimed that 'kinds' cannot cross some sort of barrier. Biologists have not found any such barrier. What, exactly, is the mechanism for that barrier? What evidence do you have for such a barrier? How do you know it cannot be crossed?
KJV

United States

#11421 Jan 16, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>Not only. It is also the modification of genes that already exist. And *that* is evolution.
Yes turning on and off genes that are all ready there is micro evolution and yes that does take place. No new DNA created. No changing from one kind of animal to another.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#11425 Jan 16, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes turning on and off genes that are all ready there is micro evolution and yes that does take place. No new DNA created. No changing from one kind of animal to another.
There is no difference between "miro-evolution" and "macro-evolution" they are the same thing.

Man and a variation of the grey wolf became acquainted about 10,000 years ago.

Now 10,000 years later, we have dog breeds descended from these wolves as diverse as teacup chihuahua's to Great Danes.

In 100,000 years, imaging having 10 times that diversity.
In 1,000,000 years, 100 times that diversity.
In 100,000,000 years 10,000 times that diversity.

Evolution is a fact. Deal with it!

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#11426 Jan 16, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes turning on and off genes that are all ready there is micro evolution and yes that does take place. No new DNA created. No changing from one kind of animal to another.
And another type of 'micro-evolution' is where genes duplicate. This *does* produce 'new DNA'. And yet another type of 'micro-evolution' is when the genes change at a single spot. This can change the nature of the protein encoded by the DNA.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#11427 Jan 16, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes turning on and off genes that are all ready there is micro evolution and yes that does take place. No new DNA created. No changing from one kind of animal to another.
It seems that you, like many creationists, have the idea that evolution means that a cat will give birth to a dog. That is not what it means, nor was it ever what it means.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#11428 Jan 16, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes turning on and off genes that are all ready there is micro evolution and yes that does take place. No new DNA created. No changing from one kind of animal to another.
So you are an identical clone of your parents and they're both identical? Because if "no new DNA" ever formed through mutations that's what you would be.

Since: Mar 11

Portage, MI

#11429 Jan 16, 2013
Christianity sounds like a mafia religion to me. Like how the mafia boss says, you don't want someone to cut your hand off right? Well best pay up because I would hate for my guy to have to rough you up, it's your choice though.

Lol! And this system is what they call enlightenment?!
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
Yep.
Basically if you grovel before their deity enough then he won't punish you with eternal torment, and they call this "salvation."
It's a psychotic mythology.
KJV

United States

#11430 Jan 16, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>There is no difference between "miro-evolution" and "macro-evolution" they are the same thing.

Man and a variation of the grey wolf became acquainted about 10,000 years ago.

Now 10,000 years later, we have dog breeds descended from these wolves as diverse as teacup chihuahua's to Great Danes.

In 100,000 years, imaging having 10 times that diversity.
In 1,000,000 years, 100 times that diversity.
In 100,000,000 years 10,000 times that diversity.

Evolution is a fact. Deal with it!
Wrong.
Wrong.
Wrong.

Micro evolution is the mere turning on or off genes that already exist. Note the Russian Silver Fox on going 50+ year old study.

http://m.genome.cshlp.org/content/17/3/259.fu...

"The Farm-Fox Experiment, as it has become known, is, in essence, a fast-forwarded reconstruction of man’s first exercise in domestication"

So you believe you're better educated on the subject of evolution then
Berkeley's evolution team?

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/arti...

"Evolution at different scales: micro to macro
by the Understanding Evolution team

Evolution encompasses changes of vastly different scales — from something as insignificant as an increase in the frequency of thegene for dark wings in beetles from one generation to the next, to something as grand as the evolution and radiation of the dinosaurlineage. These two extremes represent classic examples of micro- and macroevolution.

Microevolution happens on a small scale (within a single population), while macroevolution happens on a scale that transcends the boundaries of a single species. Despite their differences, evolution at both of these levels relies on the same, established mechanisms of evolutionary change:"

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#11431 Jan 16, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong.
Wrong.
Wrong.
Micro evolution is the mere turning on or off genes that already exist. Note the Russian Silver Fox on going 50+ year old study.
http://m.genome.cshlp.org/content/17/3/259.fu...
"The Farm-Fox Experiment, as it has become known, is, in essence, a fast-forwarded reconstruction of man’s first exercise in domestication"
So you believe you're better educated on the subject of evolution then
Berkeley's evolution team?
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/arti...
"Evolution at different scales: micro to macro
by the Understanding Evolution team
Evolution encompasses changes of vastly different scales — from something as insignificant as an increase in the frequency of thegene for dark wings in beetles from one generation to the next, to something as grand as the evolution and radiation of the dinosaurlineage. These two extremes represent classic examples of micro- and macroevolution.
Microevolution happens on a small scale (within a single population), while macroevolution happens on a scale that transcends the boundaries of a single species. Despite their differences, evolution at both of these levels relies on the same, established mechanisms of evolutionary change:"
You don't even read your own material, do you? Dumbazz!!!
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
There is no difference between "miro-evolution" and "macro-evolution" they are the same thing....
KJV wrote:
.....Despite their differences, evolution at both of these levels relies on the same, established mechanisms of evolutionary change:
KJV

United States

#11432 Jan 16, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>And another type of 'micro-evolution' is where genes duplicate. This *does* produce 'new DNA'. And yet another type of 'micro-evolution' is when the genes change at a single spot. This can change the nature of the protein encoded by the DNA.
I have not been able to find any documentation on new DNA found anywhere accept for that synthetic DNA made in a test tube. Do you know of any new DNA found in nature?
Thinking

Leighton Buzzard, UK

#11433 Jan 16, 2013
Bollocks.
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Micro evolution is the mere turning on or off genes that already exist. Note the Russian Silver Fox on going 50+ year old study.
http://m.genome.cshlp.org/content/17/3/259.fu...
"The Farm-Fox Experiment, as it has become known, is, in essence, a fast-forwarded reconstruction of man’s first exercise in domestication"
So you believe you're better educated on the subject of evolution then
Berkeley's evolution team?
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/arti...
"Evolution at different scales: micro to macro
by the Understanding Evolution team
Evolution encompasses changes of vastly different scales — from something as insignificant as an increase in the frequency of thegene for dark wings in beetles from one generation to the next, to something as grand as the evolution and radiation of the dinosaurlineage. These two extremes represent classic examples of micro- and macroevolution.
Microevolution happens on a small scale (within a single population), while macroevolution happens on a scale that transcends the boundaries of a single species. Despite their differences, evolution at both of these levels relies on the same, established mechanisms of evolutionary change:"
KJV

United States

#11434 Jan 16, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>It seems that you, like many creationists, have the idea that evolution means that a cat will give birth to a dog. That is not what it means, nor was it ever what it means.
Macro evolution is the evolution of one kind to a whole new kind. I'm aware it takes along time, but at some point there has to be a line in the sand where the old kind ends and the new kind starts.
Again the only data on evolution that's been documented that I have seen has been the simple turning on or off genes. In lab creation of new genes ( not in nature ) and a test tube new DNA (again not in nature).
Thinking

Leighton Buzzard, UK

#11436 Jan 16, 2013
You're dumb.
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Macro evolution is the evolution of one kind to a whole new kind. I'm aware it takes along time, but at some point there has to be a line in the sand where the old kind ends and the new kind starts.
Again the only data on evolution that's been documented that I have seen has been the simple turning on or off genes. In lab creation of new genes ( not in nature ) and a test tube new DNA (again not in nature).
KJV

United States

#11437 Jan 16, 2013
Thinking wrote:
<quoted text>Bollocks.
No, Berkeley's evolution team!
I don't make this stuff up. Your science has labeled the difference. So eat a few more of your goat bollocks.
Thinking

Leighton Buzzard, UK

#11438 Jan 16, 2013
I don't eat bollocks because I don't believe in your god.
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
No, Berkeley's evolution team!
I don't make this stuff up. Your science has labeled the difference. So eat a few more of your goat bollocks.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#11439 Jan 16, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Macro evolution is the evolution of one kind to a whole new kind. I'm aware it takes along time, but at some point there has to be a line in the sand where the old kind ends and the new kind starts.
Again the only data on evolution that's been documented that I have seen has been the simple turning on or off genes. In lab creation of new genes ( not in nature ) and a test tube new DNA (again not in nature).
Not true at all. Have you ever seen a color wheel? At what point exactly, does green become blue?
http://www.webdesign.org/img_articles/15053/C...

That's how evolution works. The difference between each element and its predecessor is minute. But over many generations, blue could become red.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#11441 Jan 16, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong.
Wrong.
Wrong.
Micro evolution is the mere turning on or off genes that already exist. Note the Russian Silver Fox on going 50+ year old study.
http://m.genome.cshlp.org/content/17/3/259.fu...
"The Farm-Fox Experiment, as it has become known, is, in essence, a fast-forwarded reconstruction of man’s first exercise in domestication"
So you believe you're better educated on the subject of evolution then
Berkeley's evolution team?
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/arti...
"Evolution at different scales: micro to macro
by the Understanding Evolution team
Evolution encompasses changes of vastly different scales — from something as insignificant as an increase in the frequency of thegene for dark wings in beetles from one generation to the next, to something as grand as the evolution and radiation of the dinosaurlineage. These two extremes represent classic examples of micro- and macroevolution.
Microevolution happens on a small scale (within a single population), while macroevolution happens on a scale that transcends the boundaries of a single species. Despite their differences, evolution at both of these levels relies on the same, established mechanisms of evolutionary change:"
You know less about evolution than even I gave you credit for.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#11440 Jan 16, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Macro evolution is the evolution of one kind to a whole new kind. I'm aware it takes along time, but at some point there has to be a line in the sand where the old kind ends and the new kind starts.
And this is where your reasoning goes wrong. Look at my penny analogy. What is the 'line in the sand' where the amount of money in the pile goes from 'not a lot' to 'a lot'? The point is that there *isn't* such a line. The transition is gradual. In exactly the same way, each generation to the next would be 'micro-evolution'. There is no 'Big Jump' between any two generations. Where we draw the line is *our* choice for ease of language and not a part of the actual process.
Again the only data on evolution that's been documented that I have seen has been the simple turning on or off genes. In lab creation of new genes ( not in nature ) and a test tube new DNA (again not in nature).
Gene duplication is quite common. We have seen it in action in plants and seen the effects in animals (the globin family of proteins, for example).

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#11442 Jan 16, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Macro evolution is the evolution of one kind to a whole new kind. I'm aware it takes along time, but at some point there has to be a line in the sand where the old kind ends and the new kind starts.
Again the only data on evolution that's been documented that I have seen has been the simple turning on or off genes. In lab creation of new genes ( not in nature ) and a test tube new DNA (again not in nature).
read and learn:

http://scholar.google.com/scholar...
KJV

United States

#11444 Jan 16, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>Not true at all. Have you ever seen a color wheel? At what point exactly, does green become blue?
http://www.webdesign.org/img_articles/15053/C...

That's how evolution works. The difference between each element and its predecessor is minute. But over many generations, blue could become red.
There is a point where the shade of blue stops and the shade of green starts.

Say you are ten feet from a brick wall and every second to move half way to the wall. When do to touch the wall?

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Atheism Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Nonsense of a high order: The confused world of... 17 min yehoshooah adam 3,793
News Tampa Teacher @LoraJane Hates Christians, Promo... 25 min Eagle 12 462
News Atheism, for Good Reason, Fears Questions (Jun '09) 1 hr Subduction Zone 30,136
News "Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really T... (Jan '12) 1 hr 15th Dalai Lama 70,135
News Atheism requires as much faith as religion? (Jul '09) 13 hr superwilly 258,471
News Atheism and cowardice (Nov '11) 21 hr Eagle 12 12,674
Evidence for God! (Oct '14) Wed superwilly 579
More from around the web