Don't dictate beliefs

Sep 5, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Star Press

No one else can say otherwise? That is basically saying those who do "believe in God" are better? Hardly.

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“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#10854
Jan 10, 2013
 
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>Look at what they believe with out any proof at all.

Big Bang
Spontaneous Life
Evolution
That there is no God.
That they are right.

LMAO.
Loads of evidence, though.

You being one piece.
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

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#10855
Jan 10, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Religion and philosophers have tried and failed miserably to present a logical acceptable case for the existence of deities. They rely, even demand that the person self delude themselves and abandon reason. <quoted text>
I think the best case made for theism is the appearance of design. However all this *proves* is that things looked designed.

It does not explain whether it is God/s who did the creating or multiple gods, or an infallible god, or an imperfect god, a good god or a bad one.

I think a common error by theists if they say nature looks designed, so this means that Christianity, and all that entails must be true. Which of course is faulty logic. And in addition of course evolution explains the development of complex creatures from simple ones by natural causes. Your thoughts?

Since: Mar 11

United States

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#10856
Jan 10, 2013
 
I think you pretty much answered your own question. I will merely add if there was a design or designer it is a piss poor design in several ways so I wouldn't be using this ultra weak argument were I arguing for the possibility of deities. Seeing something that we perceive as beautiful and then chalking that up to a possible deity is almost as weak and plugging in a deity for something we don't know.

Say a child in your famiy took a math test and was presented with a tricky word problem and this child wrote God as the answer, would that be acceptable in even a catholic school? Lol!

If not then it is unacceptable for adults to use this when they don't know something.
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
I think the best case made for theism is the appearance of design. However all this *proves* is that things looked designed.
It does not explain whether it is God/s who did the creating or multiple gods, or an infallible god, or an imperfect god, a good god or a bad one.
I think a common error by theists if they say nature looks designed, so this means that Christianity, and all that entails must be true. Which of course is faulty logic. And in addition of course evolution explains the development of complex creatures from simple ones by natural causes. Your thoughts?
Bob

Ashburn, VA

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#10857
Jan 10, 2013
 
I need more beer anyone have any?

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

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#10858
Jan 10, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Oh and as a follow up I have noticed many non believers hide away from the term atheist even though they are without theism. Often they at some point cite negative traits associated with the term atheist that are by the way placed on the term by theists. Or how a theist may perhaps be offended by someone calling themselves an atheist. Why should I care about their bigotry? That is their issue not mine.
Now in the end I could care less if a non believer calls themselves a super awesome reason loving non believing in deities dude/chick. That being said allowing theists to exercise that control over you because of their ill conceived notions is unacceptable to me.
How many times have you seen Christians refer to their belief system as a relationship, and go on to exclaim that it is NOT a religion?

Part of that is just the craziness, but part is a subconscious realization that religion is seen as something to be avoided. Many of these Christians are oddly anti-theistic (anti-religion), even though they clearly follow a religion.

It's often said that anti-theism is a subset of atheism, but it isn't. Many religious people acknowledge the inherent harm of religion, but follow one anyway.

Atheists, when defining themselves, have nothing to justify, nothing to defend, nothing to feel ashamed about...but theists do. On here they are finding out how ill informed they are about atheists. That must be shocking.
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

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#10859
Jan 10, 2013
 
Bob wrote:
I need more beer anyone have any?
You should try a pub for that, or as Americans say liquor store.
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

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#10860
Jan 10, 2013
 
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
Many of these Christians are oddly anti-theistic (anti-religion), even though they clearly follow a religion.
Agreed. Its a self delusion, so that the believer can avoid the obvious problem with comparative religion. With so many religions, sects and gods, what is the chances that someone is born into the right one.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

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#10861
Jan 10, 2013
 
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
Remember, I didn't bring up hell. And we're not talking about those chickens atheists say descended from coins.
You need to speak to Hedonist about your concerns, since he's terrified of hell. I was trying to console him, but it won't do him much good. He is determined he wants to go there.
By the way, it sounds like you need “IAN”(s) permission to post what is on your mind. You pore thang - how strange, lol.
You can't think for yourself? Why not? You write hymns, don't you?
Wow, I really got to you huh?

Again, the only people who could ever be happy in heaven knowing others are in eternal torture in hell would be psychopaths and sociopaths.

What a horrible myth you've got.

And, yes, if these places did exist, the company in hell would be much preferred --- Douglas Adams, Woody Allen, Isaac Asimov, Dan Barker, Ingmar Bergman, Niels Bohr, Richard Branson, James Cameron, George Carlin, John Carpenter, Asia Carrera, Noam Chomsky, Francis Crick, Rodney Dangerfield, Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Ani DiFranco, Micky Dolenz, Albert Einstein, Harlan Ellison, Jodie Foster, Janeane Garofalo, Bill Gates, Ricky Gervais, Robert Heinlein, Ernest Hemingway, Katharine Hepburn, Christopher Hitchens, Penn Jillette, Billy Joel, Diane Keaton, Hugh Laurie, Bruce Lee, Tom Lehrer, John Lennon, H.P. Lovecraft, Seth MacFarlane, Bill Maher, John Malkovich, Barry Manilow, Sir Ian McKellen, Arthur Miller, Claude Monet, Julianne Moore, Randy Newman, Jack Nicholson, Steven Pinker, Paula Poundstone, Terry Pratchett, Rob Reiner, Keanu Reeves, Gene Roddenberry, Andy Rooney, Salman Rushdie, Adam Savage, Erwin Schrödinger, Steven Soderbergh, Alan Turing, Gore Vidal, Vincent van Gogh, Kurt Vonnegut Jr., Steven Weinberg, Joss Whedon, Ted Williams, Steve Wozniak, and HUNDREDS MORE...

I would definitely want to be far away from people like YOU.

“There is no such thing”

Since: May 08

as a reasonable person

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#10862
Jan 10, 2013
 
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
How many times have you seen Christians refer to their belief system as a relationship, and go on to exclaim that it is NOT a religion?
Part of that is just the craziness, but part is a subconscious realization that religion is seen as something to be avoided. Many of these Christians are oddly anti-theistic (anti-religion), even though they clearly follow a religion.
It's often said that anti-theism is a subset of atheism, but it isn't. Many religious people acknowledge the inherent harm of religion, but follow one anyway.
Atheists, when defining themselves, have nothing to justify, nothing to defend, nothing to feel ashamed about...but theists do. On here they are finding out how ill informed they are about atheists. That must be shocking.
As in the 'Prove There is A god' thread. I find the "non-practicing" thing to be just as strange. How can a person claim to be part of a faith based system but be non-practicing?

“There is no such thing”

Since: May 08

as a reasonable person

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#10863
Jan 10, 2013
 
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow, I really got to you huh?
Again, the only people who could ever be happy in heaven knowing others are in eternal torture in hell would be psychopaths and sociopaths.
What a horrible myth you've got.
And, yes, if these places did exist, the company in hell would be much preferred --- Douglas Adams, Woody Allen, Isaac Asimov, Dan Barker, Ingmar Bergman, Niels Bohr, Richard Branson, James Cameron, George Carlin, John Carpenter, Asia Carrera, Noam Chomsky, Francis Crick, Rodney Dangerfield, Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Ani DiFranco, Micky Dolenz, Albert Einstein, Harlan Ellison, Jodie Foster, Janeane Garofalo, Bill Gates, Ricky Gervais, Robert Heinlein, Ernest Hemingway, Katharine Hepburn, Christopher Hitchens, Penn Jillette, Billy Joel, Diane Keaton, Hugh Laurie, Bruce Lee, Tom Lehrer, John Lennon, H.P. Lovecraft, Seth MacFarlane, Bill Maher, John Malkovich, Barry Manilow, Sir Ian McKellen, Arthur Miller, Claude Monet, Julianne Moore, Randy Newman, Jack Nicholson, Steven Pinker, Paula Poundstone, Terry Pratchett, Rob Reiner, Keanu Reeves, Gene Roddenberry, Andy Rooney, Salman Rushdie, Adam Savage, Erwin Schrödinger, Steven Soderbergh, Alan Turing, Gore Vidal, Vincent van Gogh, Kurt Vonnegut Jr., Steven Weinberg, Joss Whedon, Ted Williams, Steve Wozniak, and HUNDREDS MORE...
I would definitely want to be far away from people like YOU.
You should really remove Randy Newman from that list..
other than that, Salaman Rushdie is dead?

Since: Mar 11

United States

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#10864
Jan 10, 2013
 
Very nicely put! And oddly enough believers can certainly be the most anti-theistic as you have stated. I would add that many of the theists come here and see how poorly informed they are on their own beliefs.

Personally I love when the believer gets schooled by an atheist on what their own holy myth errr holy book says.

And no matter how anyone may pout and scream an atheist just isn't buying what the theist is selling it is the theist or person claiming a god exists who is obligated to show evidence for their deity and if they are unable to show objectable evidence convincingly then they have failed and must accept that. It is their cross to bear (pun intended) not ours.
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
How many times have you seen Christians refer to their belief system as a relationship, and go on to exclaim that it is NOT a religion?
Part of that is just the craziness, but part is a subconscious realization that religion is seen as something to be avoided. Many of these Christians are oddly anti-theistic (anti-religion), even though they clearly follow a religion.
It's often said that anti-theism is a subset of atheism, but it isn't. Many religious people acknowledge the inherent harm of religion, but follow one anyway.
Atheists, when defining themselves, have nothing to justify, nothing to defend, nothing to feel ashamed about...but theists do. On here they are finding out how ill informed they are about atheists. That must be shocking.

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

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#10865
Jan 10, 2013
 
Lil Ticked wrote:
<quoted text>As in the 'Prove There is A god' thread. I find the "non-practicing" thing to be just as strange. How can a person claim to be part of a faith based system but be non-practicing?
I think that's just poorly articulated. You can believe without showing it, or perform the ritual without believing.

There is a distinction that can be made between religious culture and religious belief.
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

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#10866
Jan 10, 2013
 
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
You can believe without showing it, or perform the ritual without believing.
There is a distinction that can be made between religious culture and religious belief.
Thats a very liberal attitude ;) Of course to fundies if you are not feverishly praying and speaking in tongues on a Sunday morning, you are a hell bound sinner

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

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#10867
Jan 10, 2013
 

Judged:

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for that.
I would have liked to have read more from those articles on the meaning of "reality," but it was a subscription service, and only provided a few paragraphs.
Another poster and I addressed that issue only a few months ago:
http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/TOCO8TE...
It's a hard question. My own definition runs something like this: "reality consists of whatever is common to all maximally predictive observational theories".

The goal of science is to find such maximally predictive theories (we don't have one yet ;))by doing sub-theories that cover some subset of observations and building up.

Since: Nov 12

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#10868
Jan 10, 2013
 
Lil Ticked wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, I know that is not entirely true. When I first came to Topix I was a full on believer working on becoming a pastor but, my encounters on here with certain posters swayed me considerably. They would post links, hit certain talking points and ask me questions. I listened to what they had to say, read their posted articles, and learned. During that time I also noticed that there are those that do nothing but abuse, from either side. I admit I was a noob to the interwebs blah blah blah.. long story short.. I learned two things. Yes, I am a skeptic but, I still find the history/ anthropology behind religious beliefs interesting, though not as much as I used to, and I dislike narrow minded douche bags.
Im responding to you but hope the one you responded to reads this...
I left Christianity with the help of conversation like this too. I had many questions after the death of one of my good friends who was an atheist. I asked family and friends and the answers were very dodgy. I asked a couple preachers and they just repeated the same things I've heard for years that were completely irrelevant. Then I went to YouTube and found tons of Christians giving answers for what i wanted... they were always response videos to atheists... so to better understand what they were talking about i watched their videos as well..... long story short.... after several months i found myself on the other side of that fence.

So don't think that what you say doesn't make a difference... sometimes you plant a seed or just add a little water to make it grow. Nobody is going to change their mind from one sentence in a post.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

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#10869
Jan 10, 2013
 
Lil Ticked wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, I know that is not entirely true. When I first came to Topix I was a full on believer working on becoming a pastor but, my encounters on here with certain posters swayed me considerably. They would post links, hit certain talking points and ask me questions. I listened to what they had to say, read their posted articles, and learned. During that time I also noticed that there are those that do nothing but abuse, from either side. I admit I was a noob to the interwebs blah blah blah.. long story short.. I learned two things. Yes, I am a skeptic but, I still find the history/ anthropology behind religious beliefs interesting, though not as much as I used to, and I dislike narrow minded douche bags.
Back in the early '70s I was studying to become a minister too! It was all the theology classes that got me questioning.

When I look back now I am amazed that I ever was a believer. It seems more and more absurd all the time.

Seneca (the younger) I think put it most succinctly 2000 years ago -- "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful."

Since: Nov 11

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#10870
Jan 10, 2013
 
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope
LOL
Poor old Septic, he thinks he dictates rule here. Meds must be failing him again
Well, he's certainly not dictating anything to me, lol. He said “prove your god first before you criticise science”. That's how septic shows his bizarre reasoning is not credible. The fraud in science is the same with or without God.

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#10871
Jan 10, 2013
 
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
That's how it always is at the boundary of knowledge. False starts, misunderstandings, bad assumptions, etc. But, eventually, the truth wins out because we keep *testing*. New people get ahead by showing old ideas are wrong *by observations everyone can verify*. So, yes, the path is quite crooked. But that is to be expected since we are actually trying to learn more rather than simply sitting on old assumptions (like religion does).
Lot of false in there.

You take the crooked path with science and all their blunderings.

I prefer the straight path with God.

Since: Nov 11

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#10872
Jan 10, 2013
 
Reason Personified wrote:
<quoted text>You silly twit, if your skull gets any emptier, it just may implode ... not that you would care, but we probably won't "not take" notice.
http://www.shadowmillproductions.com/photogal...
You aren't capbale of taking notice of much, are you, lol?

Maybe Kitten will forgive you for the way you treated her. You better apologize to her.

Beautiful flowers in your avatar. They're fake, like you, but at least they is right purty, lol.

Since: Nov 11

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#10873
Jan 10, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
For someone who doesn't care about atheism you sure spend a lot of time writing about it.
<quoted text>
Who says I don't care about atheism? You're the one who said you didn't care about the Bible, but you spend a lot of time fretting over it; writing about it. Sure I care about atheism. The incredible stupidity of it fascinates me.

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