Don't dictate beliefs

Sep 5, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Star Press

No one else can say otherwise? That is basically saying those who do "believe in God" are better? Hardly.

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10,281 - 10,300 of 11,175 Comments Last updated Jan 18, 2014

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#10837
Jan 10, 2013
 
Lil Ticked wrote:
<quoted text>You are the one disrupting the conversation here.
Just one click to e previous page shows how you bring up nonsesical subjects when the going gets tough for your cult online.

It's proven you're a f*cking troll. Where's your other troll alter ego nano?

Have you toned her down because too many people were noticing your anti atheist stance?

This forum has nothing for you, I suggest you go back to your cult and ask em to teach you basic honesty.

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#10838
Jan 10, 2013
 
Lil Ticked wrote:
<quoted text>I find that some theists dislike agnostics just as much as they dislike atheists. That issue doesn't matter much. To most if you don't follow a religion you are an atheist.
The term reality can be a confusing thing.
http://www.newscientist.com/special/reality
http://www.bowperson.com/309BrainScienceWeb.p...
http://uwf.edu/wmikulas/Webpage/learning/intr...
Reality isn't that confusing, you creationists try to obfuscate straightforward factual arguments by trying to discuss wider issues that have no relevance to e fact that your cult is a fraud.

Out of all the creationist trolls, you are the most pseudo intellectual.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

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#10839
Jan 10, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
A pleasure as always IANS I hope you have been doing well.
Yes, thank you. And the same in return.

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#10840
Jan 10, 2013
 
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
Reality isn't that confusing, you creationists try to obfuscate straightforward factual arguments by trying to discuss wider issues that have no relevance to e fact that your cult is a fraud.
Out of all the creationist trolls, you are the most pseudo intellectual.
You either dislike science, did not follow the links, or have a reading disability. Your problems not mine.

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#10841
Jan 10, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Oh and as a follow up I have noticed many non believers hide away from the term atheist even though they are without theism. Often they at some point cite negative traits associated with the term atheist that are by the way placed on the term by theists. Or how a theist may perhaps be offended by someone calling themselves an atheist. Why should I care about their bigotry? That is their issue not mine.
Now in the end I could care less if a non believer calls themselves a super awesome reason loving non believing in deities dude/chick. That being said allowing theists to exercise that control over you because of their ill conceived notions is unacceptable to me.
Allowing anyone to exercise control of anyone should be disturbing to everyone.

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#10842
Jan 10, 2013
 
Lil Ticked wrote:
<quoted text>I see no problem letting them frame the discussion. They end up wrong no matter who leads. One way takes longer but they always end up backing themselves into a corner.
Also, people tend to learn better when not directly confronted or told outright that their ideas are wrong. It works best to ease them into the concept than to attempt humiliate them into submission. I understand that with religion it is not as easy as it would be with physics because of the fall back of "godditit".
But what do I know?..
http://www.cie.uci.edu/prepare/shock.shtml
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
"when we teach, we must take into account what the learners know, including their incorrect knowledge."
http://www.physics.usyd.edu.au/pdfs/research/... (Muller).pdf
I understand that his paper is on teaching physics with multimedia but it does cover how people learn and it is quite interesting.
Thanks for that. I didn't realize that you were a skeptic.

"Also, people tend to learn better when not directly confronted or told outright that their ideas are wrong."

You may already know that while I do try to get along with any theist that is willing, I no longer post to the theists, even when I am answering them. To my knowledge, I have never posted a single words that changed a theist's mind, so I no longer feel that I have any responsibility to choose words with them in mind.

I would help any of them I could if I knew how, but that's simply impossible. In my experience, once the church has had them for a few years, they either tunnel out on their own with or without help if they still have the resources to do so, or they're gone for good. Thus my words are always written with the skeptics that might be reading them in mind.

But thanks for your interest.

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

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#10843
Jan 10, 2013
 
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know what you're talking about.
I don't have a god.
No one does, it's all pretense.
Joe

Dublin, Ireland

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#10844
Jan 10, 2013
 
Good night

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#10845
Jan 10, 2013
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for that. I didn't realize that you were a skeptic.
"Also, people tend to learn better when not directly confronted or told outright that their ideas are wrong."
You may already know that while I do try to get along with any theist that is willing, I no longer post to the theists, even when I am answering them. To my knowledge, I have never posted a single words that changed a theist's mind, so I no longer feel that I have any responsibility to choose words with them in mind.
I would help any of them I could if I knew how, but that's simply impossible. In my experience, once the church has had them for a few years, they either tunnel out on their own with or without help if they still have the resources to do so, or they're gone for good. Thus my words are always written with the skeptics that might be reading them in mind.
But thanks for your interest.
Actually, I know that is not entirely true. When I first came to Topix I was a full on believer working on becoming a pastor but, my encounters on here with certain posters swayed me considerably. They would post links, hit certain talking points and ask me questions. I listened to what they had to say, read their posted articles, and learned. During that time I also noticed that there are those that do nothing but abuse, from either side. I admit I was a noob to the interwebs blah blah blah.. long story short.. I learned two things. Yes, I am a skeptic but, I still find the history/ anthropology behind religious beliefs interesting, though not as much as I used to, and I dislike narrow minded douche bags.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#10846
Jan 10, 2013
 

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Givemeliberty wrote:
I have had people say that it's more productive to dub yourself an agnostic because it doesn't hurt the theist's feelings so much. It's nicer and gentler. But that seems cruel to me because I would be misleading them.
I agree with you that it is dishonest to misrepresent yourself.

Furthermore, my priority on that matter would be to promote the use of the label "atheist" with skeptics reluctant to use it than it would be to choose language more to the liking of the Christian.

The very word "atheist" has been derogated by the Christians for eons. And as we see, drones like Dim work tirelessly to derogate atheism and science, often using religious words of all things, such as calling atheism a religion. So, my focus is to help reverse that, and put the offending theist on the defensive instead. Here's a nice quote regarding that matter:

“I always flinch in embarrassment for the believer who trots out,“Atheism is just another kind of faith,” because it’s a tacit admission that taking claims on faith is a silly thing to do. When you’ve succumbed to arguing that the opposition is just as misguided as you are, it’s time to take a step back and rethink your attitudes.”- Amanda Marcotte

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

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#10847
Jan 10, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Oh and as a follow up I have noticed many non believers hide away from the term atheist even though they are without theism. Often they at some point cite negative traits associated with the term atheist that are by the way placed on the term by theists. Or how a theist may perhaps be offended by someone calling themselves an atheist. Why should I care about their bigotry? That is their issue not mine.
Well said.

It's time to put the theists on the defensive. They have defined us as untrustworthy, morally unfit, and the cause of all that is bad:

"Pope Blames Atheists for Holocaust, Ignores Catholic Complicity"
http://atheism.about.com/b/2010/09/21/pope-bl...

To be honest, I resent the hell out of that, and would like to return the favor. We define ourselves now, not them. And I predict that as our numbers swell further, we will be defining them as well. Look at how we've handled Dim in this thread in his attempt to derogate science. He's been made the thread's dunce and chew toy. That's a good model for how to threat an overtly contemptuous and disrespectful theist - return it tenfold, and with righteous indignation.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#10848
Jan 10, 2013
 
Lil Ticked wrote:
The term reality can be a confusing thing.
http://www.newscientist.com/special/reality
Thanks for that.

I would have liked to have read more from those articles on the meaning of "reality," but it was a subscription service, and only provided a few paragraphs.

Another poster and I addressed that issue only a few months ago:
http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/TOCO8TE...

Since: Mar 11

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#10849
Jan 10, 2013
 
Perhaps a very small minority of them but the fact is the term agnostic is a far more palatable proposition for the theists than an atheist. The agnostic almost cries to them to convince them of their knowledge of Jesus for example by proselytizing. The atheist comes right out and says I don't believe in the magic beans you are selling so to speak and that rubs them raw.

I find it interesting how you have people all over the spectrum arguing with atheists to stop calling themselves atheists! I mean does anyone tell and argue with Christians, Jews, Hindus, even agnostics, hell pick a group it doesn't matter, to stop calling themselves that and even devise these long winded arguments as to why they aren't a (insert any of the above and more labels)?

Nope. You see Christian and agnostic use the exact same, can you prove 100% that God doesn't exist, argument. Well errrr if you can't then you really ain't an atheist or you just as much a fundamentalist as the Pope! Lol! As if the person who doesn't fall for a pyramid scam and tells the huckster trying to sell it they don't believe they will really double their money each day, is now obligated to prove 100% it doesn't work? That's basically what people who use that argument are saying. It's just so silly.

So much anger and arguing just because someone says, hey I have looked at the facts and realize the notion of there being deities is an unproven proposition so guess what? I'm not buying/believing it so hey I'm an atheist.

Again let me say I could care less what term a non believer choses to use if any. They could call themselves reason rock stars and it's all good to me! But if they are shying away from te term atheism because of the negative attributes theists wish to place on the term then they are in fact allowing the theist to a degree control them. And if I wanted to allow a theist to have control over me I would just return to my family's baptist church and at least get some awesome grub for it :)

Btw you may want to avoid new scientist as they at times rely a bit to heavily on opinion pieces and personal philosophy pieces not to mention their sanctimonious issues like ( Darwin was wrong!) amongst others.
Lil Ticked wrote:
<quoted text>I find that some theists dislike agnostics just as much as they dislike atheists. That issue doesn't matter much. To most if you don't follow a religion you are an atheist.
The term reality can be a confusing thing.
http://www.newscientist.com/special/reality
http://www.bowperson.com/309BrainScienceWeb.p...
http://uwf.edu/wmikulas/Webpage/learning/intr...

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

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#10850
Jan 10, 2013
 
Lil Ticked wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, I know that is not entirely true. When I first came to Topix I was a full on believer working on becoming a pastor but, my encounters on here with certain posters swayed me considerably. They would post links, hit certain talking points and ask me questions. I listened to what they had to say, read their posted articles, and learned. During that time I also noticed that there are those that do nothing but abuse, from either side. I admit I was a noob to the interwebs blah blah blah.. long story short.. I learned two things. Yes, I am a skeptic but, I still find the history/ anthropology behind religious beliefs interesting, though not as much as I used to, and I dislike narrow minded douche bags.
Good to know. And congratulations to you for tunneling out of that concrete cocoon.

I've never read what you posted from any other poster. I really didn't think that there was even one believer that was influenced by the posts from skeptics.

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#10851
Jan 10, 2013
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for that.
I would have liked to have read more from those articles on the meaning of "reality," but it was a subscription service, and only provided a few paragraphs.
Another poster and I addressed that issue only a few months ago:
http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/TOCO8TE...
Yeah, sorry about that. It is just that it has the most articles and perspectives than the other sources that I found.

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#10852
Jan 10, 2013
 
Nicely said and awesome quote. I can foresee me using that one :)
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree with you that it is dishonest to misrepresent yourself.
Furthermore, my priority on that matter would be to promote the use of the label "atheist" with skeptics reluctant to use it than it would be to choose language more to the liking of the Christian.
The very word "atheist" has been derogated by the Christians for eons. And as we see, drones like Dim work tirelessly to derogate atheism and science, often using religious words of all things, such as calling atheism a religion. So, my focus is to help reverse that, and put the offending theist on the defensive instead. Here's a nice quote regarding that matter:
“I always flinch in embarrassment for the believer who trots out,“Atheism is just another kind of faith,” because it’s a tacit admission that taking claims on faith is a silly thing to do. When you’ve succumbed to arguing that the opposition is just as misguided as you are, it’s time to take a step back and rethink your attitudes.”- Amanda Marcotte

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#10853
Jan 10, 2013
 

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1

It's well past time. We see as you have shown here from the top to the bottom how they wish to label us in this atrocious negative light. That is why I say that I personally refuse to allow them to frame the debate any longer or control me.

Religion and philosophers have tried and failed miserably to present a logical acceptable case for the existence of deities. They rely, even demand that the person self delude themselves and abandon reason. I refuse to give anyone that amount of control over me, I just ain't buying it so call me an atheist. ;)
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Well said.
It's time to put the theists on the defensive. They have defined us as untrustworthy, morally unfit, and the cause of all that is bad:
"Pope Blames Atheists for Holocaust, Ignores Catholic Complicity"
http://atheism.about.com/b/2010/09/21/pope-bl...
To be honest, I resent the hell out of that, and would like to return the favor. We define ourselves now, not them. And I predict that as our numbers swell further, we will be defining them as well. Look at how we've handled Dim in this thread in his attempt to derogate science. He's been made the thread's dunce and chew toy. That's a good model for how to threat an overtly contemptuous and disrespectful theist - return it tenfold, and with righteous indignation.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#10854
Jan 10, 2013
 
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>Look at what they believe with out any proof at all.

Big Bang
Spontaneous Life
Evolution
That there is no God.
That they are right.

LMAO.
Loads of evidence, though.

You being one piece.
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

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#10855
Jan 10, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Religion and philosophers have tried and failed miserably to present a logical acceptable case for the existence of deities. They rely, even demand that the person self delude themselves and abandon reason. <quoted text>
I think the best case made for theism is the appearance of design. However all this *proves* is that things looked designed.

It does not explain whether it is God/s who did the creating or multiple gods, or an infallible god, or an imperfect god, a good god or a bad one.

I think a common error by theists if they say nature looks designed, so this means that Christianity, and all that entails must be true. Which of course is faulty logic. And in addition of course evolution explains the development of complex creatures from simple ones by natural causes. Your thoughts?

Since: Mar 11

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#10856
Jan 10, 2013
 
I think you pretty much answered your own question. I will merely add if there was a design or designer it is a piss poor design in several ways so I wouldn't be using this ultra weak argument were I arguing for the possibility of deities. Seeing something that we perceive as beautiful and then chalking that up to a possible deity is almost as weak and plugging in a deity for something we don't know.

Say a child in your famiy took a math test and was presented with a tricky word problem and this child wrote God as the answer, would that be acceptable in even a catholic school? Lol!

If not then it is unacceptable for adults to use this when they don't know something.
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
I think the best case made for theism is the appearance of design. However all this *proves* is that things looked designed.
It does not explain whether it is God/s who did the creating or multiple gods, or an infallible god, or an imperfect god, a good god or a bad one.
I think a common error by theists if they say nature looks designed, so this means that Christianity, and all that entails must be true. Which of course is faulty logic. And in addition of course evolution explains the development of complex creatures from simple ones by natural causes. Your thoughts?

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