Don't dictate beliefs

Sep 5, 2012 Full story: The Star Press 11,175

No one else can say otherwise? That is basically saying those who do "believe in God" are better? Hardly.

Full Story

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#10768 Jan 9, 2013
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
In other words, there is not now, nor has there ever been, any proof of any god's existence.
That's about the size of it.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#10769 Jan 9, 2013
Just wanted to drop this off for Dim. It came up in "Prove there's a god" but seemed apropos here, too.
Lil Ticked wrote:
I wonder... are there any non-practicing atheists in the room?
That's pretty funny.

If you think about why it's funny, it kind of puts the "atheism is a religion" canard to the lie. If atheism were a religion, you could be a non-observant atheist - a jack atheist, if you will.

But the idea is absurd - in fact, grist for a joke. Can you see that? If you made the comment about any religion or denomination, it's not funny.

I wonder... are there any non-practicing Catholics in the room?
I wonder... are there any non-practicing Pentecostals in the room?
I wonder... are there any non-practicing Muslims in the room?

<crickets> Not funny. NF.

But with "I wonder... are there any non-practicing atheists in the room?" <cue up laugh track> hilarity ensues.

Because atheism isn't a religion.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#10770 Jan 9, 2013
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
So those who go to heaven are supposed to want to go to hell and be unhappy with those who made the wrong choice?
Not me.
But I'd suggest you don't go to heaven then. If you want to be unhappy in hell with the millions who chose it for themselves, that's your right.
Yep, you're psychopathic.

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

#10771 Jan 9, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything you do. Try to please them all the time, not just when they are watching you. Serve them sincerely because of your reverent fear of the Lord.
Colossians 3:22
I had a sex slave named Colossian.

She had a colossal ass.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#10772 Jan 9, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
You of course make some great points. What I am saying is that I think at times we allow them to frame the argument to their liking. When while we can certainly factually destroy their lame apologetic nonsense, we need to remind frame the argument properly and not allow them to do the old Jesus vs Darwin debate for example.
OK. I see your point. I agree. I try to never let the Christian frame the discussion whenever I'm aware its happening.
Givemeliberty wrote:
In my pharmacology classes we learned that there is rarely a neat and pretty answer, something the theist has trouble with.
Drugs, huh? Are you a pharmacist?
Givemeliberty wrote:
We don't necessarily even expect such a pretty perfect answer. Often instead we look for the most right answer. Example: say you read a list of a woman's medications and get a grasp of her conditions. The doctor calls your pharmacy ordering four new medications. Each of these medications have negative ramifications with the other medications and/or conditions. YIKES! Here it comes! Which of the four medications will you fill and why. You of course are not allowed to say none even though none of these are perfect medications for the individual. Instead you have to pick the most right answer and explain why. Make sense?
Sure. Interesting.
Givemeliberty wrote:
Now when dealing with the notion of deities and or Jesus/Yahweh/Allah/insert god here, it all boils down to either (insert god here) exists or doesn't exist. Now everything being equal what do we do? We weigh out the facts and come to the most right answer that we can. So when one examines the facts as they are, is the best answer that those facts lead us to there being a deity in question or not? This to me when it comes to the notion of deities is the key factor.
You seem to think that the theist is your target. If that's what you think, I suggest looking at what you're doing from another perspective. We're your audience - the other skeptics. There's really nothing urgent about the post to the theist like there is when you're on the phone to a prescribing doc trying to prevent an untoward drug reaction. You don't really have to get through to the theist. In fact, you can bet you won't.

Look at it like this: If it were only you and Dim in this thread, or if it were just you and him sending emails back and forth,how long ago would you have been out of here? First day? Second?

If that's so, doesn't it mean that you already understand all of that intuitively, even if you weren't explicitly aware of it?

We're your audience, you're a good communicator, and you don't have to choose your words carefully for us.

Did I understand you correctly? Are we discussing the same thing?

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#10773 Jan 9, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Just wanted to drop this off for Dim. It came up in "Prove there's a god" but seemed apropos here, too.

That's pretty funny.

If you think about why it's funny, it kind of puts the "atheism is a religion" canard to the lie. If atheism were a religion, you could be a non-observant atheist - a jack atheist, if you will.

But the idea is absurd - in fact, grist for a joke. Can you see that? If you made the comment about any religion or denomination, it's not funny.

I wonder... are there any non-practicing Catholics in the room?
I wonder... are there any non-practicing Pentecostals in the room?
I wonder... are there any non-practicing Muslims in the room?

<crickets> Not funny. NF.

But with "I wonder... are there any non-practicing atheists in the room?" <cue up laugh track> hilarity ensues.

Because atheism isn't a religion.
I would practice, but I'm already pretty good at it.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#10774 Jan 9, 2013
Tide with Beach wrote:
Oh shit. I know why closed is a 7 and open is a 4. Am I crazy?
LOL. Funny. Wasn't that a good little anecdote? I've got a ton of them - all true, of course. How about this:

I was medical director for a local hospice, and we were caring for an unfortunate woman with renal carcinoma whose live-in caretaker was her schizophrenic daughter. Initially, the daughter had been taking her antipsychotic medications as prescribed, and was well controlled. The hospice staff was fond of her, and the visits at their home often ended with a hug from the daughter.

After a few months, however, the daughter began decompensating. She has discontinued her antipsychotics and was now behaving eerily. In addition to expressing concern about the safety of the home situation for both the patient and her daughter, the hospice staff was becoming spooked by the daughter’s increasingly bizarre behavior, and were becoming concerned about their own safety. They no longer felt good hugging the increasingly delusional daughter, and asked me for advice.

I sagely blurted out,“It sounds like a case for drugs, not hugs”.

I hope you're old enough to remember the "Hugs, Not Drugs" bumper stickers, because it's not too funny if you aren't/don't.
https://www.google.com/search...

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#10775 Jan 9, 2013
Khatru wrote:
Hi Dim
IANS isn't around but I'm sure he won't mind us laughing at you as you shake your scary chicken on a stick.
You rang?

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#10776 Jan 9, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
You rang?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =an_by5r8EUcXX
Lol

Lurch was great

https://www.youtube.com/watch...

Holy holy

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

#10777 Jan 9, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
LOL. Funny. Wasn't that a good little anecdote? I've got a ton of them - all true, of course. How about this:
I was medical director for a local hospice, and we were caring for an unfortunate woman with renal carcinoma whose live-in caretaker was her schizophrenic daughter. Initially, the daughter had been taking her antipsychotic medications as prescribed, and was well controlled. The hospice staff was fond of her, and the visits at their home often ended with a hug from the daughter.
After a few months, however, the daughter began decompensating. She has discontinued her antipsychotics and was now behaving eerily. In addition to expressing concern about the safety of the home situation for both the patient and her daughter, the hospice staff was becoming spooked by the daughter’s increasingly bizarre behavior, and were becoming concerned about their own safety. They no longer felt good hugging the increasingly delusional daughter, and asked me for advice.
I sagely blurted out,“It sounds like a case for drugs, not hugs”.
I hope you're old enough to remember the "Hugs, Not Drugs" bumper stickers, because it's not too funny if you aren't/don't.
https://www.google.com/search...
It's never too early to instill conformity. I've got some ideas for advertising bumper stickers.

Babies who wear Huggies, never become druggies.

If you put Pampers on your child, they'll never go wild.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#10778 Jan 9, 2013
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
It's never too early to instill conformity. I've got some ideas for advertising bumper stickers.
Babies who wear Huggies, never become druggies.
If you put Pampers on your child, they'll never go wild.
What's the difference between being pi$$ed off and being pi$$ed on?

...

Depends.

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#10779 Jan 9, 2013
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
It's painful to see you atheists fighting with each other, lol.
Fighting? Now I get why you think you've actually won discussions here. You don't even know what fighting and debates are.
If that caused you pain, expect a lot more, as we will continue to discuss a wide range of subjects.
KJV

United States

#10780 Jan 9, 2013
Lil Ticked wrote:
<quoted text>WTF is a cubit?
"The cubit is a traditional unit of length, based on the length of the forearm: from the elbow to the tip of the middle finger. Cubits of various lengths were employed in many parts of the world in Antiquity, in the Middle Ages and into Early Modern Times.

"Noah!" "What?" "How long can you tread water?"
KJV

United States

#10781 Jan 9, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
<quoted text>First, why should anyone care about what the bible says? It's words have been changed more than a porn star's boyfriend.
Second, why should anyone accept god as anything more than the product of someone's imagination?
If that's what you believe.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#10782 Jan 9, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
If that's what you believe.
The question wasn't about what the he believed, he asked you how anyone could believe.

He trying to explain to your at your faith and its beliefs are ridiculous and false.

It's doesn't matter if you believe or not, factually speaking your cult is full of sh*t.
KJV

United States

#10784 Jan 9, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
It means that you are guilty of Hoyle's fallacy, and that you are also ignoring the argument just presented.

KJV wrote, ""This means that all the people living on earth, man, woman and child, counting day and night, would be counting for five thousand years just to count the number of entire universes which this amoeba would have transported across a distance of thirty billion light years, one atom at a time.""

LOL. How many amoebas would it take to build a god?

KJV wrote, " "the more information comes to hand, the more preposterous the whole idea of a naturalistic origin of life becomes.""

This very same arguments rules out the existence of an uncreated god. Anything ekse is more likely to exist.
I don't recall talking about tornados building air craft out of a junk yard.

But sense you brought it up.

I happen to agree with Hoyle.

"The chance that higher life forms might have emerged in this way is comparable to the chance that a tornado sweeping through a junkyard might assemble a Boeing 747 from the materials therein.
This is a reflection of his stance reported elsewhere:

Life as we know it is, among other things, dependent on at least 2000 different enzymes. How could the blind forces of the primal sea manage to put together the correct chemical elements to build enzymes?[4]"
KJV

United States

#10785 Jan 9, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>Your understanding of statistics is inadequate. And your imagination regarding how such a thing likely happened is also lacking. Such a ribosome would not be constructed one nucleotide at a time as it is in vivo. In an environment where nucleotide exist and can join, we have a sea of fragments of various sizes - some six nucleotides long, some eight, some fourteen, and so on. The three hundred nucleotide sequence would likely form from a few dozen such pieces finding one another. That changes your mathematics radically.

From your own post at http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T... :

"Time is in fact the hero of the plot. The time with which we have to deal is of the order of two billion years. What we regard as impossible on the basis of human experience is meaningless there. Given so much time, the “impossible” becomes possible; the possible probable, and the probable virtually certain. One has only to wait; time itself performs the miracles."

What are the odds of the parts of an infinite god finding one another without an intelligent designer? Zero? My money is on a gene existing without a god before a god existing without a gene.
So you're a betting man.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#10786 Jan 9, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't recall talking about tornados building air craft out of a junk yard.
But sense you brought it up.
I happen to agree with Hoyle.
"The chance that higher life forms might have emerged in this way is comparable to the chance that a tornado sweeping through a junkyard might assemble a Boeing 747 from the materials therein.
This is a reflection of his stance reported elsewhere:
Life as we know it is, among other things, dependent on at least 2000 different enzymes. How could the blind forces of the primal sea manage to put together the correct chemical elements to build enzymes?[4]"
prove your god first before you criticise science,

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#10787 Jan 9, 2013
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
So those who go to heaven are supposed to want to go to hell and be unhappy with those who made the wrong choice?
Not me.
But I'd suggest you don't go to heaven then. If you want to be unhappy in hell with the millions who chose it for themselves, that's your right.
Choice? Like there is no book, and your name hasn't been written there-in? If your name is not there, can you do anything to get it put in? If your name is there, can you do anything that would get your name taken out?

What do you propose to do about your great granny's, great granny, making the choice to let the tinkers son have his way with her? If he had just hightailed without leaving that little dribble* behind, your great granny's, great granny's child would not have forced you to choose hell.

It's too bad for you and lucky for your spell casters that just about every human ever born has a bastard or twelve in just about every generation, so really nobody gets to go to heaven. No proof works best for the man with the sermon, and his pet politician.

Still if you are one of the three or four humans ever who meet every criteria, for admittance into heaven, I do hope you are male, Jewish, virgin and ready ..... cause, Dude the bridegroom cometh and you are the bride.

* soon to be bastard
KJV

United States

#10788 Jan 9, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>I don't know of a single physicist, though there are undoubtedly some, who ever considered string theory a slam dunk.

Your desperation is showing.

Screw your bible.

Join the real world. It's a wonderful place.
Back up the truck a bit there willy!
I am very familiar with string theory and the split in the science community.

The comment from KK was that string theory was not established. My question was what you just jumped all over me and called me desperate for asking a question about a 40+ year old well published scientific theory not being established. I would call string theory established maybe not fully excepted by the whole scientific community but I believe it is well established.

And yes there are many that don't think string theory is a slam dunk!

Such anger!

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