Don't dictate beliefs

Sep 5, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Star Press

No one else can say otherwise? That is basically saying those who do "believe in God" are better? Hardly.

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10,161 - 10,180 of 11,175 Comments Last updated Jan 18, 2014

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

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#10707
Jan 9, 2013
 
KittenKoder wrote:
KJV, my calculations for the odds were not based on the reality of the situation, I did them using your own failed concept of the method of natural selection. That would be the odds if it "started from scratch" each time, since natural selection isn't random it doesn't do that, so the odds for success are much, much, much higher.
Here's why:
Suppose you have three doors, behind one is a great prize, you don't know which one. The announcer asks you to pick one, and you do. Your odds are 33% of choosing the correct one.
Then the announcer shows you one of the two doors you didn't pick, which don't contain the prize. Your odds of having chosen the correct door are still 33%... but then he let's you change your choice.
What are your odds of selecting the correct door if you change your decision? It's a simple answer. So ... what are your chances now?
I know this one, but I won't spoil it for you.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#10708
Jan 9, 2013
 
derek4 wrote:
Mr. Twain would have done well to confine his remarks to subjects about which he was informed, lol. Like you, he isn't respected for his expertise on the Bible.
Expertise on the bible? Do you mean its myths? That is like expertise in PokÚmon or Smurfdom.

We can study the bible's provenance and history to some profit, as well as its place in history.

But its contents are useless.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#10709
Jan 9, 2013
 
Lil Ticked wrote:
WTF is a cubit?
Is that a reference to early Bill Cosby?

“There is no such thing”

Since: May 08

as a reasonable person

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#10710
Jan 9, 2013
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Is that a reference to early Bill Cosby?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =_kK3QMiJ5NYXX
I like Cosby.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#10711
Jan 9, 2013
 

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Givemeliberty wrote:
This is why I say we need to stop arguing science with the theists on here and in general. For one they don't comprehend what they are doing and asking they just repeat lines they steal from apologetic websites. They have no interest in learning and even if they did since when did atheists become free teachers for the world?
I find these discussions profitable for me, and I hope for you as well. You're correct about the theists being lost causes, and unteachable. But we're not.

This can be though of as atheist school, where the teaching we do for one another can be considered the lab section, and the theists themselves serve as the lab specimens.

I studied some psychiatry in my medical education. We would read psychiatry textbooks, and listen to lectures from psychiatrists.

But we also went to the inpatient and outpatient clinic to interview the afflicted, which is where the academic information came alive.

I paid a lot of money to be there for that. Even so, I probably only spent about a hundred hours with patients on what was a two month rotation, where I saw things I had never seen before, and in many cases, never saw again.

And acquiring insights came slowly. It takes a lot more time than an hour to understand how somebody thinks. I remember very well one man that I was assigned to interview, They didn't tell me what his pathology was. I had to discover what it was. After an hour with this man, I had no idea how he was different from you or me. My time was up, I said thank you and goodbye, and as I was walking out of the room,I asked him if he preferred his door opened or closed. He answered, "Closed. That's a number seven. Open is a four." Bingo!

This is a very similar process, except that here, I have a few thousand hours of exposure, and it was free. I have seen aspects of the theist mind in these threads that I hadn't seen anywhere else, even as a Christian in church.

If you think about it, you might agree that many of the things that you understand about the church, it's methods, and the mind of the believer come from these threads. That's true for me. It is here on Topix that I became firmly antiecclesiatical and aggressively atheistic.

How much have we taught one another here? Think about any of us in a meat space discussion of a religious topic. You'd be a leader there. What's flown by in the last day or two right here? An discussion of pi in the bible. We're turning Dim's fraud campaign around and directing it at his church. Hoyle's fallacy was discussed, rebutted, and also turned around and aimed at the unlikelihood of Jehovah. Kitten just gave us the Monty Hall problem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_probl... Polymath has been reviewing black holes. And this post offers another perspective on the value of debating with theists.

We're not here for the Christians. We're here for ourselves and for one another. I think that any of us would help the Christians if we could, but as you note, we can't - another insight that has only become clear for me as a result of this much conversation with them. But that doesn't make arguing with them useless.

What do you think?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#10712
Jan 9, 2013
 
Lil Ticked wrote:
WTF is a cubit?
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Is that a reference to early Bill Cosby?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =_kK3QMiJ5NYXX
Lil Ticked wrote:
I like Cosby.
Me, too.

Are you old enough to remember the TV series I Spy? Bill Cosby was the first black actor in a leading role in a television series. What is even more remarkable is that he didn't play a black man. The actor was black, but the character was raceless, not ethnic.

BTW, was that a yes or a no?
Thinking

Leighton Buzzard, UK

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#10713
Jan 9, 2013
 
I only post as "Thinking".

Don't judge others by your low standards.
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Septic you're slipping up again.
Your socks has a hole in it.

Since: Mar 11

United States

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#10714
Jan 9, 2013
 
You of course make some great points. What I am saying is that I think at times we allow them to frame the argument to their liking. When while we can certainly factually destroy their lame apologetic nonsense, we need to remind frame the argument properly and not allow them to do the old Jesus vs Darwin debate for example.
In my pharmacology classes we learned that there is rarely a neat and pretty answer, something the theist has trouble with. We don't necessarily even expect such a pretty perfect answer. Often instead we look for the most right answer. Example: say you read a list of a woman's medications and get a grasp of her conditions. The doctor calls your pharmacy ordering four new medications. Each of these medications have negative ramifications with the other medications and/or conditions. YIKES! Here it comes! Which of the four medications will you fill and why. You of course are not allowed to say none even though none of these are perfect medications for the individual. Instead you have to pick the most right answer and explain why. Make sense?
Now when dealing with the notion of deities and or Jesus/Yahweh/Allah/insert god here, it all boils down to either (insert god here) exists or doesn't exist. Now everything being equal what do we do? We weigh out the facts and come to the most right answer that we can. So when one examines the facts as they are, is the best answer that those facts lead us to there being a deity in question or not?
This to me when it comes to the notion of deities is the key factor.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I find these discussions profitable for me, and I hope for you as well. You're correct about the theists being lost causes, and unteachable. But we're not.
This can be though of as atheist school, where the teaching we do for one another can be considered the lab section, and the theists themselves serve as the lab specimens.
And acquiring insights came slowly. It takes a lot more time than an hour to understand how somebody thinks. I remember very well one man that I was assigned to interview, They didn't tell me what his pathology was. I had to discover what it was. After an hour with this man, I had no idea how he was different from you or me. My time was up, I said thank you and goodbye, and as I was walking out of the room,I asked him if he preferred his door opened or closed. He answered, "Closed. That's a number seven. Open is a four." Bingo!
This is a very similar process, except that here, I have a few thousand hours of exposure, and it was free. I have seen aspects of the theist mind in these threads that I hadn't seen anywhere else, even as a Christian in church.
If you think about it, you might agree that many of the things that you understand about the church, it's methods, and the mind of the believer come from these threads. That's true for me. It is here on Topix that I became firmly antiecclesiatical and aggressively atheistic.
How much have we taught one another here? Think about any of us in a meat space discussion of a religious topic. You'd be a leader there. What's flown by in the last day or two right here? An discussion of pi in the bible. We're turning Dim's fraud campaign around and directing it at his church. Hoyle's fallacy was discussed, rebutted, and also turned around and aimed at the unlikelihood of Jehovah. Kitten just gave us the Monty Hall problem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_probl... Polymath has been reviewing black holes. And this post offers another perspective on the value of debating with theists.
We're not here for the Christians. We're here for ourselves and for one another. I think that any of us would help the Christians if we could, but as you note, we can't - another insight that has only become clear for me as a result of this much conversation with them. But that doesn't make arguing with them useless.
What do you think?

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

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#10715
Jan 9, 2013
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
I find these discussions profitable for me, and I hope for you as well. You're correct about the theists being lost causes, and unteachable. But we're not.
This can be though of as atheist school, where the teaching we do for one another can be considered the lab section, and the theists themselves serve as the lab specimens.
I studied some psychiatry in my medical education. We would read psychiatry textbooks, and listen to lectures from psychiatrists.
But we also went to the inpatient and outpatient clinic to interview the afflicted, which is where the academic information came alive.
I paid a lot of money to be there for that. Even so, I probably only spent about a hundred hours with patients on what was a two month rotation, where I saw things I had never seen before, and in many cases, never saw again.
And acquiring insights came slowly. It takes a lot more time than an hour to understand how somebody thinks. I remember very well one man that I was assigned to interview, They didn't tell me what his pathology was. I had to discover what it was. After an hour with this man, I had no idea how he was different from you or me. My time was up, I said thank you and goodbye, and as I was walking out of the room,I asked him if he preferred his door opened or closed. He answered, "Closed. That's a number seven. Open is a four." Bingo!
This is a very similar process, except that here, I have a few thousand hours of exposure, and it was free. I have seen aspects of the theist mind in these threads that I hadn't seen anywhere else, even as a Christian in church.
If you think about it, you might agree that many of the things that you understand about the church, it's methods, and the mind of the believer come from these threads. That's true for me. It is here on Topix that I became firmly antiecclesiatical and aggressively atheistic.
How much have we taught one another here? Think about any of us in a meat space discussion of a religious topic. You'd be a leader there. What's flown by in the last day or two right here? An discussion of pi in the bible. We're turning Dim's fraud campaign around and directing it at his church. Hoyle's fallacy was discussed, rebutted, and also turned around and aimed at the unlikelihood of Jehovah. Kitten just gave us the Monty Hall problem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_probl... Polymath has been reviewing black holes. And this post offers another perspective on the value of debating with theists.
We're not here for the Christians. We're here for ourselves and for one another. I think that any of us would help the Christians if we could, but as you note, we can't - another insight that has only become clear for me as a result of this much conversation with them. But that doesn't make arguing with them useless.
What do you think?
Oh shit. I know why closed is a 7 and open is a 4.

Am I crazy?

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#10716
Jan 9, 2013
 
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>He keeps trying to use probability as an argument but doesn't actually understand probability enough to state his case.

So, like a broken record, he keeps making these stupid pronouncements that everybody else is wrong. He can't actually take it further to explain his math, he has none.

(Can I still say broken record with some assurance that readers even know what this implies? The reference seems so dated.)
Us old guys know what you mean.

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

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#10717
Jan 9, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
You of course make some great points. What I am saying is that I think at times we allow them to frame the argument to their liking. When while we can certainly factually destroy their lame apologetic nonsense, we need to remind frame the argument properly and not allow them to do the old Jesus vs Darwin debate for example.
In my pharmacology classes we learned that there is rarely a neat and pretty answer, something the theist has trouble with. We don't necessarily even expect such a pretty perfect answer. Often instead we look for the most right answer. Example: say you read a list of a woman's medications and get a grasp of her conditions. The doctor calls your pharmacy ordering four new medications. Each of these medications have negative ramifications with the other medications and/or conditions. YIKES! Here it comes! Which of the four medications will you fill and why. You of course are not allowed to say none even though none of these are perfect medications for the individual. Instead you have to pick the most right answer and explain why. Make sense?
Now when dealing with the notion of deities and or Jesus/Yahweh/Allah/insert god here, it all boils down to either (insert god here) exists or doesn't exist. Now everything being equal what do we do? We weigh out the facts and come to the most right answer that we can. So when one examines the facts as they are, is the best answer that those facts lead us to there being a deity in question or not?
This to me when it comes to the notion of deities is the key factor.
Sometimes you have to give them a little cheese to get them to attempt the maze.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

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#10718
Jan 9, 2013
 
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>Mark 16:15-16 ESV

And he said to them,├ó┬Ç┬ťGo into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Matthew 28:19 ESV

Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Revelation 14:6 ESV / 8 helpful votes

Then I saw another angel flying directly overhead, with an eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on earth, to every nation and tribe and language and people.
Which is just one of the many things that totally suck about your religion.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#10719
Jan 9, 2013
 

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KJV wrote:
<quoted text>Yes 10^12

String theory is well over 40 years old. It's that established?
String theory being what it is makes it almost in possible to test.
I don't know of a single physicist, though there are undoubtedly some, who ever considered string theory a slam dunk.

Your desperation is showing.

Screw your bible.

Join the real world. It's a wonderful place.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

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#10720
Jan 9, 2013
 
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>I don't know.
Then why do you say such stupid things?

“I see quantum effects”

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#10721
Jan 9, 2013
 
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>Yes there is. One item of evidence is the Bible.

I do know how life started its right there in the first few pages of the Bible.

Just because you can't get it to work your way doesn't mean we don't know how it really happened.
That would be funny if it weren't so pathetically stupid.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

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#10722
Jan 9, 2013
 
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>"What if we ARE all alone? Scientists say Earth may be a 'one-off fluke' and the Milky Way's billions of other planets may all be lifeless"

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/articl...
Follow us:@MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Yup.

What if.

And what if your god is a man made myth designed to get barbaric people to behave?

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

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#10723
Jan 9, 2013
 
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>There is evidence in the words of the Bible. Reject all you want. I don't care.
There is evidence all over the world that the Bible is correct and truly the word of God. You won't find what you don't look for.
You will only find what you can't live without.

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

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#10724
Jan 9, 2013
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Great, now I have to figure out a more accurate descriptive of the bible. Maybe it's like Mr. Roger's writing smut ... erm ... that won't work either, would it? lol
I'm sorry.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

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#10725
Jan 9, 2013
 
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>Goes with out saying.
I would say that there is hope for you, but I realize that you just don't understand what he said.

“I see quantum effects”

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#10726
Jan 9, 2013
 
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>We don't have to deal with it since it doesn't exist.

We read the Bible, and when “religion” doesn't match up to what the Bible teaches, we recognize it as religious heresy, not Christianity, and we reject it.

Thank you for demonstrating this to us in your post 10590, where you refer to “religious fraud”, which isn't Christianity.
No true Scotsman fallacy.

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